Muslim group urges members to break fast and donate blood after Orlando shootings

Not really bro. Most of the times their view is pretty much the same as the scholars of old. Wahaabi is just a term shot at people to devalue their Islam.

Can you not copy and paste vast texts? It doesn't really help prove what you're getting at.

if you want to believe that then fine. that's your opinion. i can't be bothered to debate with somebody who can't realise that indian deobandis are literally self-described wahhabis lmfao.
the fact that you spell wahhabi as wahaabi simply proves your ignorance on this matter; it makes you sound like those people who spell muslim as moslem rn lmfao.

i'm sorry if i'm sounding rude but it just kinda pisses me off when people fail to realise how this group has politicised a religion and has throughout its history and in current era used islam to justify territorial expansion which involved the slaughter of innocent muslims and non-muslims alike.
nothing's wrong with islamic fundamentalism as long as it remains theologian but the wahhabi/salafi sect (along with the deobandi) were founded and continue to carry out their actions for purely materialistic, earthly, selfish desires which served the arisocrats and custodians rather than to serve God.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 141

The Epicurean

17

Original post by Scythia

I can if I use your(and her) logic. I'm afraid nothing is sorted, you just seem confused :tongue:

I'm not. The hadith doesn't apply to them whilst I have my Epicurean cap on, so they're fair game to those of us who called them non-Muslims. I'm surprised though, Epicurean didn't write a 5000 essay on nonsensical points, so I'll have to give you the thumbs up for that.

Ah yes, I forgot, you can't debate so you just resort to ad hominems.

Are you taking suggestions for usernames for your new account that you will be creating in a day or two?

Reply 142

ssshah2

12

Original post by nucdev

Lmfaoooooo you know the debate would have naturally happened even if I hadn't have commented, right?

:rofl:

I totally agree, and its not like there haven't been any negative comments (to put it mildly) made towards the Ahmaddiya community on this thread, made by other members

Reply 143

King7

6

Ahmaddiyas are not Muslim though. It is like someone saying they believe in God, but are Anti-Thiest. Or, someone who belives in evolution, but is anti-science.

Reply 144

champ_mc99

2

Original post by Scythia

Fair enough. I have no problem with that then. I guess I should call it time and go elsewhere anyway.

You sound so familiar.

Reply 145

username1533709

5

Original post by champ_mc99

You sound so familiar.

Posted from TSR Mobile

He is an isoc member who goes behind people's back with duplicate accounts.

Reply 146

ssshah2

12

Original post by ssshah2

I totally agree, and its not like there haven't been any negative comments (to put it mildly) made towards the Ahmaddiya community on this thread, made by other members

But it does need to be said that I am totally against the branding of this issue as that of a 'muslim sect donating blood'. I am no scholar on islam, nor have I the intention of ever becoming one, but I believe that this act should be praised for what it is, a compassionate and humane response to a tragic event.
Even if they aren't considered muslims, they are still making a sacrifice of their beliefs to be compassionate, and for that, regardless of what our stances on religion are, they ought to be congratulated and feted.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 147

username2228735

15

Original post by ssshah2

But it does need to be said that I am totally against the branding of this issue as that of a 'muslim sect donating blood'. I am no scholar on islam, nor have I the intention of ever becoming one, but I believe that this act should be praised for what it is, a compassionate and humane response to a tragic event.
Even if they aren't considered muslims, they are still making a sacrifice of their beliefs to be compassionate, and for that, regardless of what our stances on religion are, they ought to be congratulated and feted.

Hear, hear.

Reply 148

Mrs.Grey

20

Original post by dairychocolate

Tbh, I think it's a pointless discussion.

Non-muslims will keep seeing Ahmadis as Muslims. From my perspective, there are too many similarities for me to consider them separate religions.

That silly yat who told them to 'sod off' based on their religion was quite embarrassing, too.

Yay, I'm a silly yat :smile:

Reply 149

lahorizon

11

Firstly, blood is no longer needed in Orlando and some centers are asking people to return later as they do not need it.

Secondly, why should normal muslims break their own fast to makeup for the actions of someone else who is not even an actual muslim- in that he obviously did not abide by the sayings on the Quran.

It is like me asking all white men to donate blood to make up for the actions of the Columbine killers? It is not their responsibility.

If there was a shortage of blood then of course it would be fine to tell all people to donate blood not just muslims. But blood in Orlando is not lacking and people are suggesting specifically muslims do it when all people should.

Reply 150

Sciatic

11

From where did you get the notion that the Buddha could "bless" something/someone?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 151

Mrs.Grey

20

Hola, ok I need to clear some things up.

First of all, some will say Ahmadiyyas are Muslim (mostly non-Muslims) and some will say they aren't, my opinion/fact still stays.

#2 I never said Ahmadiyyas are bad people nor am I judging them for it. They could be amazing people for all I know. I mean you do you boo boo but if you're telling Muslims to break their fast then what are you doing.

#3 I made the comment "Telling Muslims to break their fast is good?" I did not mention donating blood or anything else, just this simple question. The answer is "No", answering this sole question alone.

#4 Answering your comments about breaking your fast when donating blood. Muslims can donate their blood after opening the fast, I mean it isn't a big deal? Aren't there other people's blood available? People can get blood from other people who aren't fasting, which are a lot of people.

#5 Again, as I've mentioned before I don't believe punishments by death are right generally because they aren't our lives to take. Also, I'm not qualified or educated in the Qur'an or the hadith so people need to stop taking out bits from the Qur'an and hadith, removing it from it's context and expecting us to respond to it properly like no.

I think there were a few more points I wanted to say but this is all I can remember at the moment.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Original post by 34908seikj

I don't know the difference, is there a difference?

They believe in a Prophet after Muhammad (PBUH); they claim he is the Messiah but still he claimed to receive revelations (which would make him a Prophet/Messenger). In reality, it's founder was a deviant who died whilst whilst taking a scat.

As others have said, generally the Ahmadiyyah are outside of the fold of Islam, and this is consensus amongst both Shia and Sunni scholars; it is up to any Ahmadi individual to prove that they are Muslim.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 154

Just_Another_One

17

Original post by Ciel.

Nah, they shouldn't, right? It could anger 'allah'. Who cares about some victims, let them bleed to death. What a little extremist you are *rolls eyes*

You are allowed to break your fast in circumstances like this.

Reply 155

Zamestaneh

21

Original post by MrsSheldonCooper

Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prays like us and faces our Qibla and eats our slaughtered animals is a Muslim and is under Allah's and His Apostle's protection. So do not betray Allah by betraying those who are in His protection."Found in: Prayers (Salat)

Ahmadis do all the things that are said in that Hadith. So hate to break it to all the ignorant idiots on here but they are Muslims.

Here's the Quran verse btw

@Mrs.Grey

1. It is a hadith which is a saying of the Prophet, not the Quran.
2. This is within a specific frame of understanding and must also work with other rules (see 4).

Original post by MrsSheldonCooper

Funny how some members of the ISOC openly choose the word of scholars (who can easily make mistakes) over the "word of God".

Quite literally showing a Hadith in their face and they say its wrong. Tut tut.

Ahmadis are honestly some of the loveliest people I've ever met tbh. I just find it sad how they're not even allowed to go to Saudi Arabia because they aren't considered real Muslims.

3. Reitterating that it's not the word of God.
4. If a person fulfils all the conditions of the hadith, but believes in idols, for example, according to your logic he is Muslim; this is clearly a rudamentary understanding since the Quran declares idolators as disbelievers. This is clear evidence that the criteria for being a Muslim is much broader than the limited understanding you have based on this hadith.
5. Scholars look at multiple sources of evidence and use various methodologies in defining the finer points of Islamic creed, and that is why they are more qualified than lay people like you and I in determining a working understanding of Islam.
6. Being a nice person does not change the validity of what one believes, as you are well aware - hell, that's why non-Muslims slam Islam so much on here.

Original post by MrsSheldonCooper

Not trying to be rude or anything but who on Earth are you to decide they aren't real Muslims? Ahmadis are the most peaceful sect of Islam and is arguably pretty much the only sect compatible with the West and yet they get called traitors to their religion.

7. As mentioned, there are criteria which define a Muslim; Ahmadiyyah do not fulfill these and therefore they are not Muslim. Anyone who knows the criteria can thus judge whether they are Muslim or not. Muslims generally are cautious to declare others non-Muslim but when it is clear cut, then that is allowed.
8. As QE2 once admitted himself, people outside of a club who do not meet the mininum requirements cannot claim to be apart of the club but then complain when they aren't acknowledged as members and try to bend the rules of the majority of the club to join it.
9. So what if they are more compatible with the West? Again that does not lend validity to their beliefs since having acceptable views to Westerners is not a definitive measure of what actually is Islamic and what is not.

It would be a mistake to apply such rudamentary understanding and cherrypicking to make a point which conforms to your views.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 156

KimKallstrom

14

Original post by Mrs.Grey

Saving lives is one thing and breaking fast is another. In my opinion, no, they could defo give blood after they break the fast tbh.

Wow. This is one the most regressive things I've ever read on TSR. And that's saying something............

Reply 157

KimKallstrom

14

Original post by 34908seikj

Ahmadiyya .

Knew it.

Reply 158

KimKallstrom

14

Original post by MrsSheldonCooper

Good on the Ahmadis! Bless them.

I grew up by the largest Ahmadi community in the country. Their mosque was the one that got burned down last year. They were an absolute credit and a huge benefit to the wider community as they were constantly involved with charity work both with and for all sorts of other religious groups. They sell poppies in November, do rubbish collections in parks and clean ice and snow from drives for free. They integrated perfectly. The banner at the mosque read "love for all, hatred for none." Quite frankly the Sunnis could learn a lot from them but I won't hold my breath on that.

Original post by MrsSheldonCooper

Not trying to be rude or anything but who on Earth are you to decide they aren't real Muslims? Ahmadis are the most peaceful sect of Islam and is arguably pretty much the only sect compatible with the West and yet they get called traitors to their religion.

Indeed. The scum bag imam from the Islamic Centre over in Tooting (a neighbouring borough) used to constantly put fatwas on the entire Ahmadi community! Before it got burned down, they had to heighten security at their centre because of all the death threads they were getting from Sunnis. Many figures from the TIC were involved in a long-standing hate campaign against the Ahmadis, including the distribution of malicious leaflets. Attendees at this place were encouraged to boycott Ahmadi businesses. The police even had to step in at one point in the hate campaign. A Tory MP candidate was once locked in a room at the TIC for his own safety after people mistook him for the Lib Dem canidate who is an Ahmadi. Unfortunately Tooting MP Sadique Khan did nothing about the hate campaign and could barely bring himself to condemn those responsible when a local newspaper interviewed him about it. In fact he tried to deny there was such a campaign by those at the TIC because the animals agreed to withdraw the leaflets when pressured to do so. Gee, great! Though he did acknowledge there is a big problem generally in this country with regards to harassing of Ahmadis and compared the abuse they get from mainstream Muslims to the abuse black people used to get in Britain back in the day.

Over in Kingston leaflets were given out calling for the murder of Ahmadis. Ahmadi mosques in Crawley and Newham were vandalised. Islamist satellite TV channels are also bad for this stuff. Ummah Channel for example had to be pulled up by Ofcom for featuring preachers who were calling for Ahmadis to be killed and who praised the attacks on Ahmadi mosques in Pakistan.

I remember when the Morden mosque burned down. The statement from the Muslim Council of Britain was basically "don't call them Muslims". They just had their mosque burned down and that's what they come out with! And then there's the reactions from TSR Isoc members. The majority reaction was the same as the MCB's. Not expressing dismay at the travesty of what happened or sympathy for the community but just *****ing about people calling them Muslims.

Classy people, right?

Original post by MrsSheldonCooper

Apparently the Pakistani Constitution says they aren't Muslims. :/

As does the Muslim Council of Britain, who were involved in protesting the biilding of the Morden mosque in the first place. By the way I remember one Isoc member trying to justify support for a notion to ban them!

It's just occurred to me actually that the reaction I described above was the same when that Ahmadi Glaswegian shop keeper was murdered.

The Ahmadi community is a treasure and we ought to treat them as such and take more action to protect them from the abuse they get. It's a pity Salafi filth are accepted by mainstream Muslims and Ahmadis not. I hate to say it but that's not a good sign...........

Reply 159

QE2

20

Original post by Zamestaneh

8. As QE2 once admitted himself, people outside of a club who do not meet the mininum requirements cannot claim to be apart of the club but then complain when they aren't acknowledged as members and try to bend the rules of the majority of the club to join it.

But those people are quite entitled to set up their own club to carry out the same activity, and should not face calls for their death from the rival club.

Pick your own analogy from the world of sport, for example.

Muslim group urges members to break fast and donate blood after Orlando shootings

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