Original post by sleepysnoozethat's the idea of citizenship - you're born here, you belong here. your blood is bonded to the land in some political sense, because this land was made into this democracy by your ancestors, and because of them you have the privilege to inherit your citizenship. harsh but that's the way it pretty much has to be in terms of the west vs the rest. our ancestors created this nation-state and we are the inheritors by blood and birth right.
if you pay taxes here, or your ancestors paid taxes here, then you get certain rights in return for those taxes, such as the right to vote. if we allowed everybody to come here, what would be the point of citizenship? what would be the point of the nation-state? the nation-state isn't just some imaginary concept - it represents a historical community of not just a way of life but the representation of blood, sacrifice and struggle that our ancestors endured to get us to the point where we are today - we wouldn't be a democracy without a nation and a concept of the continuation of blood and ideas. it represents the past and the present and hopefully the future. there is absolutely nothing wrong with the concept of a legitimacy of a particular people, or nation, existing in a certain geographical space. the nation is one level higher than the family - and if families have the right to exist as a specific and unique group in the world, why can't nations? it's not to be taken to be absolutely exclusive in the sense that you can never come here and join us (because obviously families grow via marriages to other families after all), it's simply a matter of whether you are socially qualified to even be able to integrate with it in the first place.
people can migrate here, but if you're suggesting that we abandon the idea of citizenship and hence we ought to allow anybody to live and settle here via their pleasure, then democracy will literally rupture, there wouldn't be any space left to live, all the jobs will be taken by people who used to work probably for literal peanuts and our way of life will simply whither away in favour of whatever culture moves here in the largest numbers.
do you want a UK where it's no longer the UK and a settlement of, say, the middle east? or africa? or do you want the enlightenment-style western liberal democracy that has existed here for over 100 years? because if we let in all of those former civilisations, our way of life will be displaced by islam and similar ways of life.
immigration policy can literally be the self-destruction button of a nation-state, and our nations, like others in europe, have been messing around with that button without realising the consequences. the consequences are that we are a nation that has 4 out of 10 of the most islamic cities in europe. literally. no joke. look it up.
...but we are "us"...and they literally are "them". and I'm not talking about race. I'm talking about civilisations, and the clashes between them. you cannot just pretend that people overseas don't want our way of life to end in favour of their own. you'd have to be both blind and deaf to assume that. in the middle east, they've had misogyny, brutality, homophobia, dictation etc for literally thousands of years and they are barely closer to democracy overall than they ever were. so to assume that people are just going to move here and suddenly say "yes! I get it now! democracy is the true way!" after only spending a few days, months or years here is like thinking that a UK citizen would suddenly move to baghdad and, after a few months, say "allah hu'akbar! islam is the true way in life!" - is that likely? so why would a muslim from the middle east suddenly accept democracy after literally thousands of years of their people and their families being indoctrinated into such a culture that specifically rejects that enlightenment stuff? so you must understand that there *are* really divisions between cultures. there is the west, and then the rest. and thankfully, "the west" isn't just in the literal west but also in the east (i.e. japan, hong kong, south korea). "the rest" is luckily arrested to the middle east and africa mostly. they need to democratise over hundreds and hundreds of years before we can truly say "yes, these people are mostly fit to be able to move here in these kinds of numbers without social problems".
BUT I'm kind of moving completely off point because this is EU migration, not international migration
...but that's not to say that eastern europe is seriously part of "the west" yet, to be honest. poland, romania, serbia, former yugoslavia, etc were soviet satellites for generations. it's not like you can just snap your fingers and expect democracy to embed itself within one generation like it did in the UK over hundreds of years. poland, for example, is actually pretty racist. and against abortion rights. they have a whole ****ing lot of social development to do. but that's what soviet-style communism will do to a nation.