It is true that in the American society the only important thing is money?
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[QUOTE=WiS
i;76225488]Because by borrowing money you make other money by non-working.
Read the Holy Bible, there is a page where Jesus Christ denounce all the people that borrow money and didn't accept them into his Church.
Here you will find the pages I was speaking about https://www.openbible.info/topics/lending_money.
Here is why Jewish borrow money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemach.
Why does it matter?
Because our society work in this mechanisms.
What I got from those verses is that the Bible doesn't want you to charge interest, to gain a profit; it doesn't say that lending X amount and getting only X back is bad.
Gemach seems like a reasonable concept. A no-interest (so it adheres to the verses you linked) hardship fund. What's wrong with that?
"Because our society work in this mechanisms" makes literally no sense. Please rephrase why you think it matters if banks are controlled be Jewish people.
i;76225488]Because by borrowing money you make other money by non-working.
Read the Holy Bible, there is a page where Jesus Christ denounce all the people that borrow money and didn't accept them into his Church.
Here you will find the pages I was speaking about https://www.openbible.info/topics/lending_money.
Here is why Jewish borrow money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemach.
Why does it matter?
Because our society work in this mechanisms.
What I got from those verses is that the Bible doesn't want you to charge interest, to gain a profit; it doesn't say that lending X amount and getting only X back is bad.
Gemach seems like a reasonable concept. A no-interest (so it adheres to the verses you linked) hardship fund. What's wrong with that?
"Because our society work in this mechanisms" makes literally no sense. Please rephrase why you think it matters if banks are controlled be Jewish people.
Original post by VinnicombeDmv
What I got from those verses is that the Bible doesn't want you to charge interest, to gain a profit; it doesn't say that lending X amount and getting only X back is bad.
Indeed I was speaking that is not accepted that you borrow money expecting to earn other money from that actions.
This a an important part of the Bible, and even if a lot of the world wide population belong to Christianity, the society work on a system where Bank borrow money asking back a larger sum, as if borrowing money is a job.
With this I do not intend to say that all the Jewish borrow money, but just to say that this action born from their culture.
There are also Jewish people that wrote books against this system.
Original post by WiSi
Indeed I was speaking that is not accepted that you borrow money expecting to earn other money from that actions.
This a an important part of the Bible, and even if a lot of the world wide population belong to Christianity, the society work on a system where Bank borrow money asking back a larger sum, as if borrowing money is a job.
With this I do not intend to say that all the Jewish borrow money, but just to say that this action born from their culture.
There are also Jewish people that wrote books against this system.
This a an important part of the Bible, and even if a lot of the world wide population belong to Christianity, the society work on a system where Bank borrow money asking back a larger sum, as if borrowing money is a job.
With this I do not intend to say that all the Jewish borrow money, but just to say that this action born from their culture.
There are also Jewish people that wrote books against this system.
Charging interest isn't done because of Judaism though....it's just good business sense. If I lend someone a large sum of money and I don't have a 100% guarantee of getting it all back, I need to charge regular interest payments to help set-off against possible writing off the debt. Even if I were to have a 100% guarantee of getting the money back, I need to charge interest due to the time value of money. If I lend someone 100k, that's 100k I no longer have to invest elsewhere and make a perhaps less risky profit, so again I charge interest.
Original post by VinnicombeDmv
Charging interest isn't done because of Judaism though....it's just good business sense. If I lend someone a large sum of money and I don't have a 100% guarantee of getting it all back, I need to charge regular interest payments to help set-off against possible writing off the debt. Even if I were to have a 100% guarantee of getting the money back, I need to charge interest due to the time value of money. If I lend someone 100k, that's 100k I no longer have to invest elsewhere and make a perhaps less risky profit, so again I charge interest.
So it's ok that average USA students have a debt of 70K without even having been asked money for a house or something else.
Original post by WiSi
So it's ok that average USA students have a debt of 70K without even having been asked money for a house or something else.
My post was about the principle of loans, not any implementations in the real world. Is it ok that some students are in debt? Absolutely ok, higher education is an investment into your future. Is it ok that the debt reaches past 50k for many, perhaps most, students? No, but that's not a discussion about loans in and of themselves, but rather about the groups that set tuition fees.
Original post by VinnicombeDmv
My post was about the principle of loans, not any implementations in the real world. Is it ok that some students are in debt? Absolutely ok, higher education is an investment into your future.
This is just an opinion, many philosophers demonstrated how a debt is an act of slavery, because you are oblige to work, even if you don't want.
Not all the places of job ( due to the economical system in which we leave) give you a high salary.
Not all the people have the possibility to pay so high tuition fees, os they are obliged to renounce to their freedom.
Original post by VinnicombeDmv
My post was about the principle of loans, not any implementations in the real world.
So do you mean that in theory loans are correct and in real life do not work properly ?
Original post by WiSi
This is just an opinion, many philosophers demonstrated how a debt is an act of slavery, because you are oblige to work, even if you don't want.
Not all the places of job ( due to the economical system in which we leave) give you a high salary.
Not all the people have the possibility to pay so high tuition fees, os they are obliged to renounce to their freedom.
So do you mean that in theory loans are correct and in real life do not work properly ?
Not all the places of job ( due to the economical system in which we leave) give you a high salary.
Not all the people have the possibility to pay so high tuition fees, os they are obliged to renounce to their freedom.
So do you mean that in theory loans are correct and in real life do not work properly ?
Woah woah woah, charging interest on a loan is absolutely not akin to taking slave. With that logic, being a parent is a form of slavery, because you are forced to work to provide for them. I don't know what philosophers you listen to, but either you are misunderstanding them or they are just plain wrong.
Yes, not all jobs have a high salary, but getting a respectable degree absolutely improves your chances of getting a well paid job. A business investment isn't a 100% guarantee, but people are made aware of risk. Currently, there is a salary threshold you have to meet before you even begin paying off tuition fees (at least in the UK). If you don't make at least 21k (I think that's the figure), then you don't pay a penny. If you fall below 21k, you stop paying and even when you do pay, you only pay 9% of whatever you earn above 21k (again, bit rusty with my figures so they may not be accurate).
I mean that loans as a concept are fair and work. That is, lending money and making profit is both fair and reasonable. If people choose to manipulate loan contracts, lend to people they know will be screwed, etc, then that's the faulth of the people, not the loans.
Loans are a means to an end, a tool. Don't blame the tool. It's the the car's fault if a driver is drunk, just as it's not the computer's fault if someone downloads spyware.
Original post by VinnicombeDmv
Woah woah woah, charging interest on a loan is absolutely not akin to taking slave. With that logic, being a parent is a form of slavery, because you are forced to work to provide for them. I don't know what philosophers you listen to, but either you are misunderstanding them or they are just plain wrong.
No, because no one force you to became a parent.
Original post by VinnicombeDmv
Yes, not all jobs have a high salary, but getting a respectable degree absolutely improves your chances of getting a well paid job.
Yes, not all jobs have a high salary, but getting a respectable degree absolutely improves your chances of getting a well paid job.
What is a respectable degree?
Why a subject should be more respectable then another ?
Original post by VinnicombeDmv
Currently, there is a salary threshold you have to meet before you even begin paying off tuition fees (at least in the UK). If you don't make at least 21k (I think that's the figure), then you don't pay a penny. If you fall below 21k, you stop paying and even when you do pay, you only pay 9% of whatever you earn above 21k (again, bit rusty with my figures so they may not be accurate).
Currently, there is a salary threshold you have to meet before you even begin paying off tuition fees (at least in the UK). If you don't make at least 21k (I think that's the figure), then you don't pay a penny. If you fall below 21k, you stop paying and even when you do pay, you only pay 9% of whatever you earn above 21k (again, bit rusty with my figures so they may not be accurate).
Not all the world is part of the UK.
Today 50% of the population live with just 2 dollars a day.
In my country very few people have a salary of 21K, only senior level engineers, and bankers.
This system of loans work well for UK and even better for USA, but fortunately not all the country that that is fair to colonies India and others countries to earn money and live in luxury, while the industrial rubbish is making earth a more polluted place.
In my area 208 of 300 of a school have a cancer, because near their school the industry hide industrial oil and junk under the earth.
The same is happening in Africa.
The Usa sell his Coca Cola and etc rubbish to Mexico and then want to create a wall against them, but they still want to sell their products.
If you visit a hospital department with people and children that are suffering diabetes for this unhealthy drinks, it will be impossible to not cry.
Can you believe that?
Coca Cola & Co is a sponsor of big even like the World Cup, and is killing people little by little.
You can see that is not Coca Cola fault, because do not oblige you to drink right?
Let's see some biochemistry scientific paper, you will find that a glass of Coca Cola has so much sugar that force you body to ask more, in order to contract the huge growth of insulin in your body.
You brain will ask you to drink in an infinite loop, the same mechanism of cigarettes.
Do you still thing that is the people fault ?
The nuclear bomb is a weapons that can kills lots of people, and not also, can damage earth in a so huge way that is not possible to restore it like it was before the impact of the bomb.
Who invented it can't avoid to not thing that not all the people have the metal power to manage a so strong thing and can use it in a bad way.
It is not possible ( today) to control every person one by one, what they think, so creating this weapon it's a dangerous thing, because a person with mental problem can find it and use it.
Here there is another topic that is coming out.
People should take care of them, or the Stated should help them to avoid the fact that they can hurt their body and others people?
If that State control you, maybe no one will suffer, but you lose you freedom.
If State give freedom to all, there is a huge risk that someone will damage the freedom of another one.
Original post by WiSi
No, because no one force you to became a parent.
No one forces you to go to university or take out a loan.
Original post by WiSi
What is a respectable degree?
Why a subject should be more respectable then another ?
Why a subject should be more respectable then another ?
Poor wording on my part, I meant a degree that has good job prospects. Getting a degree in women's studies or art philosophy won't improve your chances of a good salary as much as a STEM degree would. Should people still study those subjects they are passionate about and relevant to our culture? Of course, but don't complain about being 50k in debt if your final thesis was about feminism.
Original post by WiSi
Not all the world is part of the UK.
Today 50% of the population live with just 2 dollars a day.
In my country very few people have a salary of 21K, only senior level engineers, and bankers.
This system of loans work well for UK and even better for USA, but fortunately not all the country that that is fair to colonies India and others countries to earn money and live in luxury, while the industrial rubbish is making earth a more polluted place.
In my area 208 of 300 of a school have a cancer, because near their school the industry hide industrial oil and junk under the earth.
The same is happening in Africa.
The Usa sell his Coca Cola and etc rubbish to Mexico and then want to create a wall against them, but they still want to sell their products.
If you visit a hospital department with people and children that are suffering diabetes for this unhealthy drinks, it will be impossible to not cry.
Can you believe that?
Coca Cola & Co is a sponsor of big even like the World Cup, and is killing people little by little.
You can see that is not Coca Cola fault, because do not oblige you to drink right?
Let's see some biochemistry scientific paper, you will find that a glass of Coca Cola has so much sugar that force you body to ask more, in order to contract the huge growth of insulin in your body.
You brain will ask you to drink in an infinite loop, the same mechanism of cigarettes.
Do you still thing that is the people fault ?
The nuclear bomb is a weapons that can kills lots of people, and not also, can damage earth in a so huge way that is not possible to restore it like it was before the impact of the bomb.
Who invented it can't avoid to not thing that not all the people have the metal power to manage a so strong thing and can use it in a bad way.
It is not possible ( today) to control every person one by one, what they think, so creating this weapon it's a dangerous thing, because a person with mental problem can find it and use it.
Here there is another topic that is coming out.
People should take care of them, or the Stated should help them to avoid the fact that they can hurt their body and others people?
If that State control you, maybe no one will suffer, but you lose you freedom.
If State give freedom to all, there is a huge risk that someone will damage the freedom of another one.
Today 50% of the population live with just 2 dollars a day.
In my country very few people have a salary of 21K, only senior level engineers, and bankers.
This system of loans work well for UK and even better for USA, but fortunately not all the country that that is fair to colonies India and others countries to earn money and live in luxury, while the industrial rubbish is making earth a more polluted place.
In my area 208 of 300 of a school have a cancer, because near their school the industry hide industrial oil and junk under the earth.
The same is happening in Africa.
The Usa sell his Coca Cola and etc rubbish to Mexico and then want to create a wall against them, but they still want to sell their products.
If you visit a hospital department with people and children that are suffering diabetes for this unhealthy drinks, it will be impossible to not cry.
Can you believe that?
Coca Cola & Co is a sponsor of big even like the World Cup, and is killing people little by little.
You can see that is not Coca Cola fault, because do not oblige you to drink right?
Let's see some biochemistry scientific paper, you will find that a glass of Coca Cola has so much sugar that force you body to ask more, in order to contract the huge growth of insulin in your body.
You brain will ask you to drink in an infinite loop, the same mechanism of cigarettes.
Do you still thing that is the people fault ?
The nuclear bomb is a weapons that can kills lots of people, and not also, can damage earth in a so huge way that is not possible to restore it like it was before the impact of the bomb.
Who invented it can't avoid to not thing that not all the people have the metal power to manage a so strong thing and can use it in a bad way.
It is not possible ( today) to control every person one by one, what they think, so creating this weapon it's a dangerous thing, because a person with mental problem can find it and use it.
Here there is another topic that is coming out.
People should take care of them, or the Stated should help them to avoid the fact that they can hurt their body and others people?
If that State control you, maybe no one will suffer, but you lose you freedom.
If State give freedom to all, there is a huge risk that someone will damage the freedom of another one.
No, not all countries are like the UK. You started a conversation on money in America and have devolved into complaining about poverty and smaller economies. Is there corruption? Yes. Do companies use ingredients, marketing techniques and even psychology to help sell their products? Yes.
Anyone that tries to blame their addiction (whether that be cigarettes, sugary food, videogames, whatever) on the product itself is just looking for someone to blame. Everyone is capable of NOT consuming whatever products are pushed. Don't like that you are craving another coke? Then do something about it and fight the temptation; don't just give in and blame the manufacturer, that's just selfish and delusional.
Look, no one is denying that many people across the globe suffer in sub-human circumstances, and no oneis denying that part of this is due to large corporations, but to get back to the topic you chose to initiate, money and goods are just a tool. The tool isn't to blame.
Original post by VinnicombeDmv
No one forces you to go to university or take out a loan.
This is a cultural difference.
In the Uk people tend to think in a different way and I respect this way even if I don't share it.
For example In Italy and Germany tuition fees are seen as an obstacle to the freedom, because every one must be free to learn what it want and to do what kind of job he want.
Original post by VinnicombeDmv
Poor wording on my part, I meant a degree that has good job prospects. Getting a degree in women's studies or art philosophy won't improve your chances of a good salary as much as a STEM degree would. Should people still study those subjects they are passionate about and relevant to our culture? Of course, but don't complain about being 50k in debt if your final thesis was about feminism.
Poor wording on my part, I meant a degree that has good job prospects. Getting a degree in women's studies or art philosophy won't improve your chances of a good salary as much as a STEM degree would. Should people still study those subjects they are passionate about and relevant to our culture? Of course, but don't complain about being 50k in debt if your final thesis was about feminism.
Why not?
For example lots of people things that if you have a degree in engineering you will have a future, at least a decent salary.
Well in my country is not like that.
Due to the 2008 financial crisis, the construction were locked and all the people with a degree in civil engineering lost their job or didn't find a job, even if engineering is a practical degree.
I have a friend with this degree that now is with no job and he is working in a jail, cleaning the parks.
Now the banks blocked any project of building a new house or public construction.
The bank won't give you money to build a house unless you are Berlusconi, but probably he don't need to go to the bank to build a new house.
Other companies closed, and also mechanical engineers loses their job, but they find work in other sector.
I know a lot of doctors with a degree that do not find a job because the government don't have the money to trade them and teach them how to work, they taught that the solution should be to go to Uk but they are finding difficulties due to the Brexit.
Original post by VinnicombeDmv
Anyone that tries to blame their addiction (whether that be cigarettes, sugary food, videogames, whatever) on the product itself is just looking for someone to blame. Everyone is capable of NOT consuming whatever products are pushed. Don't like that you are craving another coke? Then do something about it and fight the temptation; don't just give in and blame the manufacturer, that's just selfish and delusional.
Look, no one is denying that many people across the globe suffer in sub-human circumstances, and no oneis denying that part of this is due to large corporations, but to get back to the topic you chose to initiate, money and goods are just a tool. The tool isn't to blame.
Anyone that tries to blame their addiction (whether that be cigarettes, sugary food, videogames, whatever) on the product itself is just looking for someone to blame. Everyone is capable of NOT consuming whatever products are pushed. Don't like that you are craving another coke? Then do something about it and fight the temptation; don't just give in and blame the manufacturer, that's just selfish and delusional.
Look, no one is denying that many people across the globe suffer in sub-human circumstances, and no oneis denying that part of this is due to large corporations, but to get back to the topic you chose to initiate, money and goods are just a tool. The tool isn't to blame.
It is scientifically proved that Coca Cola create addiction due to the insulin that your live liberate.
The same for cigarettes, it is very hard to stop smoking ( and I talk as a person that never smoked), because your brain liberate substances that order to you to assume nicotine.
There is also the fact that lot of people became addicted to something because they have another problem they can't solve.
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