Warwick Rape Joke Students- 3 expelled 2 banned for a year, rest fined.

Fray boy trash talk is not established though right...? Now you're picking and choosing when to consider context when convenient.

Regardless, people often joke about killing people who are not established friends!

We've already discussed this. Being a 'frat boy' doesn't mean you get a free pass when you threaten to rape your fellow university students, we're supposed to be equal under the law and so should it also be under university rules. I don't advise anyone to discuss killing strangers, or even killing 'friends' to strangers. It's a dangerous path given that incitement and conspiracy are real offences, setting aside conversation that is contrary to the expectations of university membership.

Yeah we've already discussed this, I didn't say being a frat boy means you get a free pass when you threaten to rape your fellow university students.

You're getting real tiresome.

You would criminalise half the country, deal with that argument or stop writing to me.

It's a matter for the police/CPS to determine whether they should pursue students for having private discussion about raping others at their university, I've already said that. Otherwise it is for the university to act on breaches of their rules and by any reasonable standard students discussing who they should rape at their institution (or more generally for that matter) is a very serious breach. Don't like university rules or the penalties imposed for breaching them? Don't go to university. Better still, don't be a horrible person who talks about who they should rape, it's not rocket science.

Don't like the university rules of 70 years ago which prohibited homosexuality? Don't go to university? Would that be your response?

It's not an argument in favour of the university rules to simply say that people shouldn't go there if they don't like them.

From the first link I was questioning the punishment, but take a look here:
https://thetab.com/uk/warwick/2018/05/09/named-and-pictured-the-warwick-boys-who-made-rape-jokes-in-their-group-chat-28615
Think it's a little more justified now.

But university rules don't prohibit homosexuality in the UK today so this is just another red-herring (indeed it seems like you've now started to try and widen the argument because you've got nowhere else to go on the salient issue). It's entirely reasonable for a university to have rules to protect itself and its students from the effect of individuals or groups who make repeated suggestions that they want to rape so-and-so. It doesn't matter if the perpetrator/s find it amusing and haven't said it with intentions to act, we cannot know that and it's just not acceptable regardless. You've said very little about what effect any of these revelations might have on the female students who were identified for rape (or for female students more generally) at Warwick, I wonder why?

White men are vile.

White men are vile.

I've already acknowledged that these females should not have to sit in class with them or be near them at all. You seem to have forgotten I said that. I wonder why?

No doubt you see what I'm writing as a red-herring, since you've still not understood it. You said that if someone doesn't like a university's rule, they just shouldn't go there. I was pointing out how ridiculous that logic would be when applied to the case of homosexuality 70 years ago. Therefore, it's not a consistent principle.

Half the country has 'suggested' (to use your inaccurate description) that they want to kill someone, while joking. Your principle here would criminalise them all. Please explain how it wouldn't?

So you don't have a problem with the targeted female students having to share the campus with these men, share the libraries, have to share the student bar? No doubt you think female students should just 'man-up'. You are not in touch with reality.

I've already explained that there's a difference between "I'm going to kill you" directed at friends and "I'm going to rape that girl over there" between friends, not the same. Why aren't you claiming that half the country have suggested they will rape someone or other? Could there be a reason?

If your behaviour impacts on other students and breaks the policies of the university, then yes. They should have thought about that before.
If you cant follow and respect the rules of the uni, then maybe dont join.

So you don't have a problem with the targeted female students having to share the campus with these men, share the libraries, have to share the student bar? No doubt you think female students should just 'man-up'. You are not in touch with reality. I've already explained that there's a difference between "I'm going to kill you" directed at friends and "I'm going to rape that girl over there" between friends, not the same. Why aren't you claiming that half the country have suggested they will rape someone or other? Could there be a reason?

No I didn't say I was happy with that, perhaps they should have to finish their course off-campus.



Of course there's a reason - rape jokes are (hopefully.. not aware of actual data) less common than murder jokes.

You know full well that I'm extracting your principle from this particular case and showing how it would criminalise half the country when applied generally.

You said the problem with their speech was that regardless of their intention, taking their language 'plainly' and without context, what they said amounted to a threat.

My argument is that this would criminalise half the country.

You failed to take into account my point that not all murder jokes are simply friends saying they will kill each other. When among friends, people also make jokes about killing those who are not their friends: people in their broader social circle, celebrities, politicians, colleagues, bosses, etc.

If you want to try to point to the context of those statements, by pointing out, as all reasonable people would, that such utterances should not be taken literally because of their context - I will simply remind you that you have failed to apply that principle consistently in the case of these young men.

*mic drops*

What’s the problem? The fact that female students have to share campus with men who SAID these things or the fact that these men have a particular mindset making them amenable to say these things?

Even if the policies are unjust and unfair?

If you are walking down the road, a guy stops you and your mother then says “Damn, if I have a chance I would rape you”. Do you walk off, call the police to conduct natural justice or do you punch the idiot in the face?

What about if it was not said to your face but written in a private chat? Would your reaction be the same?

If people know they would be punished for an act, most would not do it. The issue is that people like that tend to have this inherent idea that they would go free for such comments.

what if people make racist comments in private, say at a family dinner ? should they also be punished ? or, perhaps, some sexist remark in bed with their girl- or boyfriend ? should Universities actively spy on students' private lives and opinions ? problems, problems ...

best