Warwick Rape Joke Students- 3 expelled 2 banned for a year, rest fined.

It's a judgement call on the part of the university I guess. In this particular case it was discussion between students about other students so it was a bit of no-brainer for action to be necessary.

the problem, in my view, is the public or private nature of the discussion

if I express the view, in a letter to a friend, that eliminating Jews or torturing "disbelievers" is beneficial to humankind, should a University take action if this private letter is somehow forwarded to them ?

in the future, it may be perhaps possible to gain information about a person's thoughts : should people be punished for thinking despicable thoughts ? or only for communicating these thoughts to a few friends ? or, perhaps, also for writing them down in your diary ?
best

what if people make racist comments in private, say at a family dinner ? should they also be punished ? or, perhaps, some sexist remark in bed with their girl- or boyfriend ? should Universities actively spy on students' private lives and opinions ? problems, problems ...

best

If a Sam tells Sally that he will kill John for something he did. Should Sam be investigated for it? What happens if Sam actually kills John, would Sally be an accomplice to the murder if she had not reported it?

What about if Sam tells John that he will rape Sally and all the other 5 girls in her house? Should Sam be investigated for it? What happens if Sam actually rapes Sally and the other girls, would John be an accomplice to the rape if he had not reported it?

Now, I am not calling for a police state. However, when such things come out in public, i think the perpetrators should be investigated and punished. This serves two purpose; 1. To punish the perpertrator and 2. To deter others from doing the same.

Why do you think the media reports on news of people being jailed? They could just kept shut while the person gets jailed. Then reason is to show that crime does not pay and to deter others from doing the same.

As for a device which makes all thoughts public? I have no idea how that would go but it is at the moment a speculative concern.

So you at least accept that these students cannot be allowed on campus because of the seriousness and impact of what they have been saying, that is progress. There's only one more step you need to take now, which is it recognise that the university has to impose a penalty which makes it clear to current and prospective students, and the wider academic community, that it has zero-tolerance of such extreme and misogynist expressions, whether real threats to rape or not, whether 'humorous' to the participants or not. Universities have rules and serious breaches suffer serious consequence. That's all there is to it.

It's not really a pubic issue and tbf there are so many problems that the left-wing overlooks in favour of its identity politics.

I hate the state of political correctness and left-wing bias at universities. For me personally it's more about the affirmative action being provided to Muslims but I also think that this is a little too much considering that these messages were privately sent among themselves. It's not really a pubic issue and tbf there are so many problems that the left-wing overlooks in favour of its identity politics.

there are several dimensions to the problem :

A tells B : I am going to kill C.
Context is essential: how serious is this threat ? is it a joke ? is A simply very angry, and just letting off steam ? is A seriously making prepariations to kill C ? should B warn C, or even go to the police ? it's obvious that the answer is not the same in all cases ...

A tells B : blacks (or "whites", or "apostates", or "disbelievers" etc ) are nefarious people. For the good of society, they should be eliminated.
What should B do ? report A to the police ? speak to his parents, to the leaders of his sect, to his University ?

again, context is everything : is A joking, or buying weapons, gathering information on apostates, inviting other persons to act etc etc, in other words, are some preparations going on, or is it just random thoughts ?

Another point is :
what if these conversations etc become public.
Then, other factors come into play. Institutions (police, Universities, political and religious organisations etc) of course, will try to forestall criticism by taking action publicly, even if this is not necessarily warranted by the seriousness of the threats..., and this will risk having permanent negative consequences for the "culprits", even beyond what would be needed to simply show them the dangers implied by their conversations

So, in other words, there is no clear, "one size fits all" answer to the question. Some Muslims have a very similar problem, on an even more serious level, when faced with the issue of how radicalised co-religionists should be dealt with...

best

There is no affirmative action being provided to Muslims, blacks, Asians, Romas, etc. We live in a meritocracy where people get into universities based on their talents and grades. I got into my university because I met the grade requirements, not because of my religion, ethnic background, or sexuality. If a Muslim is a successful doctor, it is because he/she put in a lot of hard work to get to that point.

The affirmative action being provided to Muslims is an open secret. It's quite easy to see how the left-wing and the wider establishment have become obsessed with supporting the socioeconoically backwards Muslim community with affirmative action - simply looking through The Guardian or Hollywood would provide you with plenty of examples of Muslims getting affirmative action and positive racism. It's widely common for left-wing political groups to provide a platform exclusively to disadvantaged peoples such as Muslims (I think the leader of the student union was a Muslim?). British Muslims have become one of the most ridiculous examples of charity case pandering.

The majority of Muslims get sympathy at universities and the left-wing types give them a huge leg-up. The following article is from a left-wing source a Muslim would probably trust, even The Guradian has written about how Muslims got affirmative action years ago when the Hindu-Muslim divide was less stark in the UK.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/may/02/islam.religion

That article does not mention anything that demonstrates universities engaging in affirmative action for Muslims. All it suggests is that Muslims want separate schools, i.e. faith schools. Many Catholics Jewish, and Hindu communities have their own faith schools and yet they aren't accused of being recipients of affirmative action. There seems to be a double standard here.

The point still stands that universities do not engage in affirmative action and admit people who meet their grade requirements. If universities did not do this, what would be the point of them having conditional offers and entry requirements?

The Guardian is probably the only news outlet that would have any effect on your viewpoints. It's discussing how "the perception is that Muslims receive a disproportionate amount of attention and funding and that perception is justified." and this is The Guardian that's saying this, so how exactly do you think the majority on the centre and right think of Muslims now?

We all know that Muslims receive a ridiculous amount of support from the media and charitable organisations, to the point that even the Tory party, despite the severity of Islamophobia among right-wing types in teh UK, chose to appoint a Muslim person into a chair that primarily deals with delinquency among the groups he represents, with there now being more Muslim politicians than Non-Muslim Indian politicians in the UK despite Muslims being less educated. It's exactly these kinds of affirmative action policies that are driving Indians out of the left-wing and even out of Europe. I notice that the far-right and Trumpism is very acceptable in the Indian community now...

None of what you have said does not prove how universities engage in affirmative action. The rules for university admissions is pretty simple. If you get the grades, you get in. If you don't get the grades, you don't get in. Of course, depending on how many people met the grades university admissions can sometimes be lenient.

Also, I am Indian and where I live, I see loads of Indians in the area. Clearly, they aren't flocking back to India because tbh that country is a **** hole. There is such a thing as Indian Muslims. Why are you separating the two as if they are entirely different groups?

Where I live, Muslims do not seem uneducated. My GP is a Muslim. My optician is a Muslim and my dentist is a Muslim too. I also had a lot of Muslim Maths teachers in secondary school too. They seem to be doing well.

...but think of this : what if your diary is stolen, and someone publishes it on the net

should you be punished for the evil considerations you wrote in your diary ?

best

...I don't agree that a university should do something which would essentially result in half the country being kicked out of university. Care to engage that argument, or are you trying to avoid it?

It's hardly unfair to remove students who have been having discussions about raping others at their university. But no matter, if you don't bother familiarising yourself with university rules when making the decision to join then you hardly have an argument after you've been found out discussing who you should rape with your friends. As the saying goes, ignorance is no defence to the law. If the university decisions in this case have been inconsistent with their own rules or procedures then they will be appealable.