Disgusting attack on Sri Lankans and Christians during Easter Sunday :(
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There is no proof that Allah exists so punishment for disobeying his law and disbelief is tantamount to punishing someone for not believing or obeying Santa Claus or the tooth fairy.
In a country governed entirely by Islamic Law it might be more acceptable to make victims out of disbelievers, but I’m sure that is still illegal under international law. In a country where Islamic Law isn’t dominant it is certainly unlawful and unreasonable to kill someone for disbelief
In a country governed entirely by Islamic Law it might be more acceptable to make victims out of disbelievers, but I’m sure that is still illegal under international law. In a country where Islamic Law isn’t dominant it is certainly unlawful and unreasonable to kill someone for disbelief
Original post by QE2
Ah, but how do we define "innocent"?
You know as well as I do that Islam prescribes killing people who civilised society considers "innocent".
"Innocent" simply means "not guilty of an offence" so it is entirely subjective.
The text you refer to states that those guilty of "fasad" are not innocent. Ibn Kathir describes fasad as including such "crimes" as disbelief and disobeying Allah's law.
So, if the victims can be viewed as Islamically "not innocent" for whatever reason, you accept that they could be legitimate targets?
Do you consider Shia and Ahmadiyya as "deviant offshoots of Islam"?
You know as well as I do that Islam prescribes killing people who civilised society considers "innocent".
"Innocent" simply means "not guilty of an offence" so it is entirely subjective.
The text you refer to states that those guilty of "fasad" are not innocent. Ibn Kathir describes fasad as including such "crimes" as disbelief and disobeying Allah's law.
So, if the victims can be viewed as Islamically "not innocent" for whatever reason, you accept that they could be legitimate targets?
Do you consider Shia and Ahmadiyya as "deviant offshoots of Islam"?
Ideologically, to the "true Muslim" like @Zamestaneh , man made laws and conventions are irrelevant. Only Allah's objective, infallible and immutable morality counts (and the rules inferred from it). Obviously in practical terms they may abide by man made laws, but they regard them with contempt.
It’s a good thing they do; because we would have no chance if every single Muslim in the world followed what the Quran ACTUALLY said. It is a similar thing for Christians, except Christians are required by God to obey the law of the land unless it goes against what the Bible teaches
Original post by QE2
Ideologically, to the "true Muslim" like @Zamestaneh , man made laws and conventions are irrelevant. Only Allah's objective, infallible and immutable morality counts (and the rules inferred from it). Obviously in practical terms they may abide by man made laws, but they regard them with contempt.
Original post by Zamestaneh
May God curse and destroy the killers and their ilk.
What makes you think that a problem started by "god" will be solved with more God?
Original post by lostplot
Its such a sad, devastating attack. Absolutely unbelievable...why are we attacking religions!? Innocent people going about their life, dying in an act of worship. Its so sad. Its happening all over the world - as we saw in New Zealand, Its happening in China to muslims, Its happening in India to christians and muslims...Why is this happening. Let people practice their religion, let people pray in peace and stop the killing of innocent people
Perhaps because the number 1 reason that Isis give for attacking people is in fact Allah?
Original post by Just my opinion
I was going to make a similar point but you have done it's better than I would have.
Thanks for the time and effort you put into this.
Thanks for the time and effort you put into this.
Thanks, manually repped.
Original post by lostplot
Its such a sad, devastating attack. Absolutely unbelievable...why are we attacking religions!? Innocent people going about their life, dying in an act of worship. Its so sad. Its happening all over the world - as we saw in New Zealand, Its happening in China to muslims, Its happening in India to christians and muslims...Why is this happening. Let people practice their religion, let people pray in peace and stop the killing of innocent people
its actually happening to non-muslims in islamic countries far more commonly that the selected exampes youve quoted - and islamic terrorism is the common globally- hence why the continuing discussion on threads like these. 'Letting people practice' political islam , is leading to more and more terrorism
(edited 5 years ago)
Im muslim myself. I am a practising muslim. I can assure you that neither Allah SWT or the Quran or anywhere in Islam does it say to kill innocent people. These people in ISIS have some strange ideology that does not match the teachings of Islam. They make things up, misinterpret things to make it look like it is true and brainwash the minds of many and turn society against 'Islam'. Its disgusting. They achieve nothing but sins. And in the process innocent lives are taken - someones child, someones parents, someones friend...
Original post by AJ126
Perhaps because the number 1 reason that Isis give for attacking people is in fact Allah?
Original post by lostplot
Im muslim myself. I am a practising muslim. I can assure you that neither Allah SWT or the Quran or anywhere in Islam does it say to kill innocent people. These people in ISIS have some strange ideology that does not match the teachings of Islam. They make things up, misinterpret things to make it look like it is true and brainwash the minds of many and turn society against 'Islam'. Its disgusting. They achieve nothing but sins. And in the process innocent lives are taken - someones child, someones parents, someones friend...
They practice Wahhabism.The same as in Saudi Arabia.Are you really honestly telling me they Saudi Arabians aren't Muslims? In the birthplace of Islam? In which the city of Mecca is located? I suppose neither is Iran when they hang gay people or Indonesia when they whip unmarried women for kissing? By your definition most of the Islamic world isn't Muslim.
Face it.They are Muslims.They follow the exact same ideology as most of the Islamic world.No amount of hand waving is going to change that.
Original post by lostplot
I can assure you that neither Allah SWT or the Quran or anywhere in Islam does it say to kill innocent people.
Define "innocent"?
Given that the Quran and sunnah basically consider anyone who refuses to submit to Islam as "not innocent", it gives the Islamist extremist quite some scope to work with.
These people in ISIS have some strange ideology that does not match the teachings of Islam.
It may not match the "Islam" that is promoted by many modernist imams and scholars, but it matches the Islam of Muhammad and the sahabah.
They make things up,
Examples please.
misinterpret things to make it look like it is true
That's the problem with "interpretation" - there is always more than one, by definition. And everyone always believes their interpretation is the true one and the others false. You included.
and brainwash the minds of many
All religions are perpetuated by indoctrination.
Bismillah(In the name God), Alhamdulillah(All praise is to Allah), and may peace and blessings be upon the final prophet and messenger, Muhammad(saw),
Alright, I am a Sunni Muslim who adheres to the manhaj, methodology, and understanding of the Salaf As Saliheen(the pious predecessors who understood the religion better than any of us), and I am writing this post to shed some light on this matter from an Islamic Perspective insha Allah so that non-muslims and the muslims(who may not have much insight or knowledge regarding this matter) can understand.
Regarding, the Sri Lanka attacks, it was an attack carried by the group that calls itself the the Islamic State or Daesh, or Dawlatul Islamiyah in Arabic. Their official media has confirmed this and they have posted a video showing the suicide bombers pledging allegiance to the so called "Ameer Ul Mu3mineen" or "Khalifah ul Muslimeen" called Abu Bakr al Baghdadi al Hussaini al Qurayshi(although it is not confirmed he is from Quryashi descent by outside sources).
In Islam the general ruling is that the killing of Innocent non-combatants is not allowed. One of the evidences used by the Ulema'(Scholars of Islam) is from the Qur'an, in Surah Maaidah(Surah number 5), Verse 5, where Allah(swt) says:
"whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. " - Sahih International Translation(Most Popular English translation source of the Qur'an).
So this is the general ruling in Islam regarding killing innocent people regardless of whether they are Muslim or a Kafir(non-muslim).
However, in recent times some( a very small minority) scholars have differed regarding this general ruling on whether this applies to the current specific scenario the muslim ummah is facing today.
I am not going to go too far into depth of the Islamic Sciences in explaining this ruling such as Usul ul Fiqh etc, as they are extremely complicated and require years of study to master. Usul ul fiqh is a science which every scholar who passes rulings must have studied, know, understand and have an ijaazah in.
I am now going to shed some light to those who do not have as much insight on why some scholars have given a specific ruling against the general ruling which I have explained above that killing innocent non-combantants is Haraam(not permissable) in Islam. This is a touchy subject and I disagree with this opinion, so as I explain please don't think I support this, it is just to explain so others can really understand, and I will refute this opinion in my final paragraph at the end on why we should also reject this opinion(I am a peaceful Moderate muslim).
We must understand Islam is moderate and Allah(swt) does not burden any soul with anything it cannot bear as he says in Surah Baqarah, verse 286. The general ruling for eating pork and drinking alcohol is that it is haraam for a muslim. However, if the muslim is in a situation whereby there is no water at all, there is no other drink, and he/she is extremely thirsty, the ruling in this specific case is that it halal(permissable). They can drink alcohol enough to just remove their thirst so they will not die. Similarly, if there is no food around except pork and the muslim would die of hunger if he did not eat the pork, then it is permissable for him to eat pork.
Similarly, in recent times, after the US invasion, intervention and wars on the muslim world, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. and their intervention in the muslim world in order to destabilise and maintain their petro-dollar system, there have been a lot of killing of innocent muslim civillians non-stop at the hands of america and it's allies. Therefore, scholars of the muslim world who are located in these areas who are experiencing first hand what is occuring, have explained that this is a crusade by the americans and it's allies, and it is a war between the muslims and them. The killing of innocent muslim civillians has meant that some scholars who have studied usul ul fiqh, have given fatawah(rulings) that the general ruling regarding the killing of innocent non-combatants is abrogated by the verse in the qur'an in Surah Baqarah(Surah number 2) verse 194:
"So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him." - Sahih International.
So you see this is the evidence that some of the scholars use to pass rulings making it permissable for these kind of atrocious attacks on innocent non-combatants. It is a specific ruling given the situation that the muslim world faces which means some scholars have given the ruling that the general ruling is abrogated in this situation. There are some other evidences and ijtihad(Islamic Legal reasoning) that they use but this is basically how they come to the ruling. I am not going to name the small minority of scholars who have given this ruling as it is for your own safety I don't want you to search them up and read more from there as I want you to avoid these individual scholars who hold these extremist idealogies.
Now, I will explain why these fatawah(rulings) are invalid and no one living in the west should act upon these extremist rulings, rather they should be disregarded.
Firstly, it is that we muslims who live in the west have signed an agreement with the non-muslim governments to live in their lands peacefully, abiding by their laws in exchange for being able to live, work, having access to food and shelter and other baisc human needs and being able to practice Islam freely without being oppressed aswell as having a police force for our security/safety. If you have a passport then that means you are in this contract. It is haraam(not permissable) in Islam to break your contracts. Therefore, to break this contract will mean you are incurring a great sin. The evidence given by the scholars for this is in Surah Al-Ma’idah(surah number 5) verse number 1:
"O you who believe, fulfill all contracts."
Another evidence used is Surah An-Nahl (surah number 16) verse number 91:
Fulfill the covenant of Allah when you have taken it, and do not break oaths after their confirmation while you have made Allah a witness over you. Verily, Allah knows what you do.
Secondly, the other refutation point is that we are suppossed to be taking our religion regarding matters of Fiqh(rulings) from the scholars in our area/country. The explanation is that they are the ones who understand the entire situation better because they live here and understand how the west works so they are better qualified to use a principle called 'urf in usul ul fiqh to make more correct rulings. This is why during the time of the Classical Islamic Scholars, when a Man was visiting the Maghreb(Morroco etc) where they followed mostly the fiqhi rulings of Imam Malik(rh), if he were to ask a scholar from there regarding a matter of fiqh, this scholar would tell the man to ask the scholar of his own land of his own country and get his fiqhi rulings from there. Because there may be differences in some of the fiqh(rulings) so as not to confuse the layman. This is why these extremely minor weak extremist opinions held by a handful of scholars who live in a land extremely far away from the west should not be acted upon and rather should be disregarded. The scholars of the west have spoken and they have all said it is haraam.
Hopefully, this sheds some light on this issue to everyone insha Allah.
Alright, I am a Sunni Muslim who adheres to the manhaj, methodology, and understanding of the Salaf As Saliheen(the pious predecessors who understood the religion better than any of us), and I am writing this post to shed some light on this matter from an Islamic Perspective insha Allah so that non-muslims and the muslims(who may not have much insight or knowledge regarding this matter) can understand.
Regarding, the Sri Lanka attacks, it was an attack carried by the group that calls itself the the Islamic State or Daesh, or Dawlatul Islamiyah in Arabic. Their official media has confirmed this and they have posted a video showing the suicide bombers pledging allegiance to the so called "Ameer Ul Mu3mineen" or "Khalifah ul Muslimeen" called Abu Bakr al Baghdadi al Hussaini al Qurayshi(although it is not confirmed he is from Quryashi descent by outside sources).
In Islam the general ruling is that the killing of Innocent non-combatants is not allowed. One of the evidences used by the Ulema'(Scholars of Islam) is from the Qur'an, in Surah Maaidah(Surah number 5), Verse 5, where Allah(swt) says:
"whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. " - Sahih International Translation(Most Popular English translation source of the Qur'an).
So this is the general ruling in Islam regarding killing innocent people regardless of whether they are Muslim or a Kafir(non-muslim).
However, in recent times some( a very small minority) scholars have differed regarding this general ruling on whether this applies to the current specific scenario the muslim ummah is facing today.
I am not going to go too far into depth of the Islamic Sciences in explaining this ruling such as Usul ul Fiqh etc, as they are extremely complicated and require years of study to master. Usul ul fiqh is a science which every scholar who passes rulings must have studied, know, understand and have an ijaazah in.
I am now going to shed some light to those who do not have as much insight on why some scholars have given a specific ruling against the general ruling which I have explained above that killing innocent non-combantants is Haraam(not permissable) in Islam. This is a touchy subject and I disagree with this opinion, so as I explain please don't think I support this, it is just to explain so others can really understand, and I will refute this opinion in my final paragraph at the end on why we should also reject this opinion(I am a peaceful Moderate muslim).
We must understand Islam is moderate and Allah(swt) does not burden any soul with anything it cannot bear as he says in Surah Baqarah, verse 286. The general ruling for eating pork and drinking alcohol is that it is haraam for a muslim. However, if the muslim is in a situation whereby there is no water at all, there is no other drink, and he/she is extremely thirsty, the ruling in this specific case is that it halal(permissable). They can drink alcohol enough to just remove their thirst so they will not die. Similarly, if there is no food around except pork and the muslim would die of hunger if he did not eat the pork, then it is permissable for him to eat pork.
Similarly, in recent times, after the US invasion, intervention and wars on the muslim world, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. and their intervention in the muslim world in order to destabilise and maintain their petro-dollar system, there have been a lot of killing of innocent muslim civillians non-stop at the hands of america and it's allies. Therefore, scholars of the muslim world who are located in these areas who are experiencing first hand what is occuring, have explained that this is a crusade by the americans and it's allies, and it is a war between the muslims and them. The killing of innocent muslim civillians has meant that some scholars who have studied usul ul fiqh, have given fatawah(rulings) that the general ruling regarding the killing of innocent non-combatants is abrogated by the verse in the qur'an in Surah Baqarah(Surah number 2) verse 194:
"So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him." - Sahih International.
So you see this is the evidence that some of the scholars use to pass rulings making it permissable for these kind of atrocious attacks on innocent non-combatants. It is a specific ruling given the situation that the muslim world faces which means some scholars have given the ruling that the general ruling is abrogated in this situation. There are some other evidences and ijtihad(Islamic Legal reasoning) that they use but this is basically how they come to the ruling. I am not going to name the small minority of scholars who have given this ruling as it is for your own safety I don't want you to search them up and read more from there as I want you to avoid these individual scholars who hold these extremist idealogies.
Now, I will explain why these fatawah(rulings) are invalid and no one living in the west should act upon these extremist rulings, rather they should be disregarded.
Firstly, it is that we muslims who live in the west have signed an agreement with the non-muslim governments to live in their lands peacefully, abiding by their laws in exchange for being able to live, work, having access to food and shelter and other baisc human needs and being able to practice Islam freely without being oppressed aswell as having a police force for our security/safety. If you have a passport then that means you are in this contract. It is haraam(not permissable) in Islam to break your contracts. Therefore, to break this contract will mean you are incurring a great sin. The evidence given by the scholars for this is in Surah Al-Ma’idah(surah number 5) verse number 1:
"O you who believe, fulfill all contracts."
Another evidence used is Surah An-Nahl (surah number 16) verse number 91:
Fulfill the covenant of Allah when you have taken it, and do not break oaths after their confirmation while you have made Allah a witness over you. Verily, Allah knows what you do.
Secondly, the other refutation point is that we are suppossed to be taking our religion regarding matters of Fiqh(rulings) from the scholars in our area/country. The explanation is that they are the ones who understand the entire situation better because they live here and understand how the west works so they are better qualified to use a principle called 'urf in usul ul fiqh to make more correct rulings. This is why during the time of the Classical Islamic Scholars, when a Man was visiting the Maghreb(Morroco etc) where they followed mostly the fiqhi rulings of Imam Malik(rh), if he were to ask a scholar from there regarding a matter of fiqh, this scholar would tell the man to ask the scholar of his own land of his own country and get his fiqhi rulings from there. Because there may be differences in some of the fiqh(rulings) so as not to confuse the layman. This is why these extremely minor weak extremist opinions held by a handful of scholars who live in a land extremely far away from the west should not be acted upon and rather should be disregarded. The scholars of the west have spoken and they have all said it is haraam.
Hopefully, this sheds some light on this issue to everyone insha Allah.
Now, this is my second post, I have not read this entire thread however I have read a post randomly regarding this idealogy of "Wahhabism".and Saudi Arabia and ISIS.
ISIS is a group which claims to have established an Islamic Caliphate and implement the divine law on the lands. However, their methodology in doing this is incorrect and they oppress and make takfir unjustly and kill innocent muslims wrongly. Their implementation of sharia' is wrong also. The majoity of scholars 99% of them have said ISIS is upon falsehood and that they are the modern day khawarij. Even other extremist groups such as Al- Qaeda and Taliban fight against them because of how extreme and wrong ISIS is and the falsehood they are upon. Moreover, if you didn't already know this- ISIS also makes takfir on Taliban and Al- Qaeda, they say they are also all Kuffar(non-muslims). This just shows how extreme they are relative to these other groups. They have nothing to do with "Wahhabism" or Salafiyyah.
People are very ignorant on these matters. These people who say "Wahhabism" is an evil cult are ignorants who do not understand what "Wahhabism" even is. They have not even read a single letter from the works of the great mujaddid Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdil Wahhab(rh). If they did they would understand that Saudi Arabia and ISIS do not represent "Wahhabism" at all. Shaykh MIAW(rh) was born in Najd in an area where shirk, and grave worshipping was widespread. He gave da'wah to the people to come back to At Tawheed(Monothiesm) - to Worship Allah alone. These people where using the graves as intercessors with Allah which is Shirk. This is the same as what the mushrikeen(polythiests) of Quraysh did at the time of the Prophet Muhammad(saw). They believed in Allah. They believed that Allah created all things however the Quraysh where mushrikeen because they used to worship the idols in order to get closer to Allah. They used to say they were using them as intercessors:
"And they worship other than Allah that which neither harms them nor benefits them, and they say, "These are our intercessors with Allah " Say, "Do you inform Allah of something He does not know in the heavens or on the earth?" Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him" - quran 1:18.
Shaykh MIAW(Muhammad Ibn Abdil Wahhab) revived tawheed. He explained tawheed by breaking it down into so laymen could understand it better so that they will understand what is Tawheed and what is Shirk. He gave da'wah to the people so that they may turn away from the shirk they had fallen into. This is what "Wahhabism" is. This is what is in his works. People today speak regarding matters of Islam without even opening up any book and reading the actual works of the scholars. They do not even read a single letter from these scholars and "idealogies" and then they make such false accusations from just read wikipedia. They become conpsiracy theorists, these people have no knowledge in Islam. They should instead read and try to refute these great scholarly works academically in the religion of Islam instead of making false lies and conspiracies.
Secondly, Salafism is simply to adhere to the correct understanding of Islam. Which is the understanding of those who were the best among us. Those who understood the Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet(saw) better than any of us. And who are these people? Well the prophet tells us in this sahih hadith:
he Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said in a famous hadeeth narrated by 'Imraan bin Husayn (RA):هم
"Verily the best among you (to follow) is my generation (the Messenger Muhammad (SAW) and his Companions (RA)), then those who follow, and then those who follow them…" (Saheeh Muslim, Book: the Virtues of the Sahaabah, chapter 52 hadeeth #2535)
The Scholars have explained that this hadith refers to the first 3 generations after the Prophet(saw). They are called the Salaf As Saliheen in Arabic. It means Pious Predecessors.
Therefore, Salafism is simply to adhere to the Qur'an and Sunnah upon the manhaj(way) and methodology and understanding of the Salaf As saliheen. - As this is the correct understanding and they were the best among the Muslim Ummah. The Sahaaba were there during the time of the Prophet(saw), they knew the the true meaning of every single ayaatin the quran and hadith of the prophet, they lived through the context of when they came.
Finally, Saudi Arabia and their government does not represent "Wahhabism" or Salafiyyah in any way shape or form. Their actions nor their foreign policy. Rather I and many others make takfeer on MBS. I believe that MBS is an apostate. The evidence for my takfeer and others is that he has dismantled the Sharia' of Allah. Dismantling the Sharia' is a Major Kufr(disbelief). Moreover, they have also allied with oppressors who kill innocent muslims and wage war against muslims. Therefore, this is another nullifer of his Islam. Hence, MBS is a Kafir(non-muslim) and an apostate. Like him there are other apostate rulers the muslim world is ruled by such as that of Sisi in Egypt.
ISIS is a group which claims to have established an Islamic Caliphate and implement the divine law on the lands. However, their methodology in doing this is incorrect and they oppress and make takfir unjustly and kill innocent muslims wrongly. Their implementation of sharia' is wrong also. The majoity of scholars 99% of them have said ISIS is upon falsehood and that they are the modern day khawarij. Even other extremist groups such as Al- Qaeda and Taliban fight against them because of how extreme and wrong ISIS is and the falsehood they are upon. Moreover, if you didn't already know this- ISIS also makes takfir on Taliban and Al- Qaeda, they say they are also all Kuffar(non-muslims). This just shows how extreme they are relative to these other groups. They have nothing to do with "Wahhabism" or Salafiyyah.
People are very ignorant on these matters. These people who say "Wahhabism" is an evil cult are ignorants who do not understand what "Wahhabism" even is. They have not even read a single letter from the works of the great mujaddid Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdil Wahhab(rh). If they did they would understand that Saudi Arabia and ISIS do not represent "Wahhabism" at all. Shaykh MIAW(rh) was born in Najd in an area where shirk, and grave worshipping was widespread. He gave da'wah to the people to come back to At Tawheed(Monothiesm) - to Worship Allah alone. These people where using the graves as intercessors with Allah which is Shirk. This is the same as what the mushrikeen(polythiests) of Quraysh did at the time of the Prophet Muhammad(saw). They believed in Allah. They believed that Allah created all things however the Quraysh where mushrikeen because they used to worship the idols in order to get closer to Allah. They used to say they were using them as intercessors:
"And they worship other than Allah that which neither harms them nor benefits them, and they say, "These are our intercessors with Allah " Say, "Do you inform Allah of something He does not know in the heavens or on the earth?" Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him" - quran 1:18.
Shaykh MIAW(Muhammad Ibn Abdil Wahhab) revived tawheed. He explained tawheed by breaking it down into so laymen could understand it better so that they will understand what is Tawheed and what is Shirk. He gave da'wah to the people so that they may turn away from the shirk they had fallen into. This is what "Wahhabism" is. This is what is in his works. People today speak regarding matters of Islam without even opening up any book and reading the actual works of the scholars. They do not even read a single letter from these scholars and "idealogies" and then they make such false accusations from just read wikipedia. They become conpsiracy theorists, these people have no knowledge in Islam. They should instead read and try to refute these great scholarly works academically in the religion of Islam instead of making false lies and conspiracies.
Secondly, Salafism is simply to adhere to the correct understanding of Islam. Which is the understanding of those who were the best among us. Those who understood the Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet(saw) better than any of us. And who are these people? Well the prophet tells us in this sahih hadith:
he Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said in a famous hadeeth narrated by 'Imraan bin Husayn (RA):هم
"Verily the best among you (to follow) is my generation (the Messenger Muhammad (SAW) and his Companions (RA)), then those who follow, and then those who follow them…" (Saheeh Muslim, Book: the Virtues of the Sahaabah, chapter 52 hadeeth #2535)
The Scholars have explained that this hadith refers to the first 3 generations after the Prophet(saw). They are called the Salaf As Saliheen in Arabic. It means Pious Predecessors.
Therefore, Salafism is simply to adhere to the Qur'an and Sunnah upon the manhaj(way) and methodology and understanding of the Salaf As saliheen. - As this is the correct understanding and they were the best among the Muslim Ummah. The Sahaaba were there during the time of the Prophet(saw), they knew the the true meaning of every single ayaatin the quran and hadith of the prophet, they lived through the context of when they came.
Finally, Saudi Arabia and their government does not represent "Wahhabism" or Salafiyyah in any way shape or form. Their actions nor their foreign policy. Rather I and many others make takfeer on MBS. I believe that MBS is an apostate. The evidence for my takfeer and others is that he has dismantled the Sharia' of Allah. Dismantling the Sharia' is a Major Kufr(disbelief). Moreover, they have also allied with oppressors who kill innocent muslims and wage war against muslims. Therefore, this is another nullifer of his Islam. Hence, MBS is a Kafir(non-muslim) and an apostate. Like him there are other apostate rulers the muslim world is ruled by such as that of Sisi in Egypt.
(edited 5 years ago)
lol this is why people are turning away from religion, fairytales made by men in the 6th century...
Original post by z-hog
Talking of conspiracy theories, there's a bloke down the pub quite given to them and his latest is that parts of the media are going out of their way to avoid the use of the word 'Christian' in their reporting, he says it's because it's bad for business when trying to bring Christianity down to portray Christians as victims of anything on this earth. I told him I wasn't sure, that you can't put anything past the media these days but that it would be hard work to leave it out. After all, every time Muslims or people of any other denomination are targeted we are inevitably told of what made them a target. I told him I'd look it up and reminded him it was his round next.
So I did look it up:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2019/apr/22/sri-lanka-attacks-bombings-live-news
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/sri-lanka-bombings-attack-easter-massacre-terrorism-colombo-church-thowheed-jamaat-islam-a8881566.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48018417
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48028045?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cywd23g0gxgt/sri-lanka&link_location=live-reporting-story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48011886
Five samples will have to do, we all have a life. Only mention of the word 'Christian' is in the middle link, it is quoted as part of an alleged statement by IS that they were intent on targeting, well... Christians. Other than that, couldn't find the word Christian once anywhere. The bottom link is remarkable by covering the whole religious side of it without ever using the word... Christian. Plenty of references to Muslims and Buddhists, why not?
Never mind all that, the question is: what do I tell my mate tomorrow when I see him?
So I did look it up:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2019/apr/22/sri-lanka-attacks-bombings-live-news
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/sri-lanka-bombings-attack-easter-massacre-terrorism-colombo-church-thowheed-jamaat-islam-a8881566.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48018417
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48028045?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cywd23g0gxgt/sri-lanka&link_location=live-reporting-story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48011886
Five samples will have to do, we all have a life. Only mention of the word 'Christian' is in the middle link, it is quoted as part of an alleged statement by IS that they were intent on targeting, well... Christians. Other than that, couldn't find the word Christian once anywhere. The bottom link is remarkable by covering the whole religious side of it without ever using the word... Christian. Plenty of references to Muslims and Buddhists, why not?
Never mind all that, the question is: what do I tell my mate tomorrow when I see him?
Check your links before using them to try and prove your point as the Independent says '...the use of suicide bombers to target Christian civilians attending mass is new.'
Given that there were attacks on hotels, as well as churches, should it be reported as 'Christians, other denominations, maybe some atheists'? Should they check the religious preference of every victim to list?
Anyway, if it is reported as a 'church' bombed, as opposed to a synagogue or mosque, is it that difficult to understand that the majority in there would be Christians? Then again, Christmas and Easter are times when people with no particular affiliation to a religion like to attend mass, should they be discounted?
Original post by Gold DInar
Now, this is my second post, I have not read this entire thread however I have read a post randomly regarding this idealogy of "Wahhabism".and Saudi Arabia and ISIS.
ISIS is a group which claims to have established an Islamic Caliphate and implement the divine law on the lands. However, their methodology in doing this is incorrect and they oppress and make takfir unjustly and kill innocent muslims wrongly. Their implementation of sharia' is wrong also. The majoity of scholars 99% of them have said ISIS is upon falsehood and that they are the modern day khawarij. Even other extremist groups such as Al- Qaeda and Taliban fight against them because of how extreme and wrong ISIS is and the falsehood they are upon. Moreover, if you didn't already know this- ISIS also makes takfir on Taliban and Al- Qaeda, they say they are also all Kuffar(non-muslims). This just shows how extreme they are relative to these other groups. They have nothing to do with "Wahhabism" or Salafiyyah.
People are very ignorant on these matters. These people who say "Wahhabism" is an evil cult are ignorants who do not understand what "Wahhabism" even is. They have not even read a single letter from the works of the great mujaddid Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdil Wahhab(rh). If they did they would understand that Saudi Arabia and ISIS do not represent "Wahhabism" at all. Shaykh MIAW(rh) was born in Najd in an area where shirk, and grave worshipping was widespread. He gave da'wah to the people to come back to At Tawheed(Monothiesm) - to Worship Allah alone. These people where using the graves as intercessors with Allah which is Shirk. This is the same as what the mushrikeen(polythiests) of Quraysh did at the time of the Prophet Muhammad(saw). They believed in Allah. They believed that Allah created all things however the Quraysh where mushrikeen because they used to worship the idols in order to get closer to Allah. They used to say they were using them as intercessors:
"And they worship other than Allah that which neither harms them nor benefits them, and they say, "These are our intercessors with Allah " Say, "Do you inform Allah of something He does not know in the heavens or on the earth?" Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him" - quran 1:18.
Shaykh MIAW(Muhammad Ibn Abdil Wahhab) revived tawheed. He explained tawheed by breaking it down into so laymen could understand it better so that they will understand what is Tawheed and what is Shirk. He gave da'wah to the people so that they may turn away from the shirk they had fallen into. This is what "Wahhabism" is. This is what is in his works. People today speak regarding matters of Islam without even opening up any book and reading the actual works of the scholars. They do not even read a single letter from these scholars and "idealogies" and then they make such false accusations from just read wikipedia. They become conpsiracy theorists, these people have no knowledge in Islam. They should instead read and try to refute these great scholarly works academically in the religion of Islam instead of making false lies and conspiracies.
Secondly, Salafism is simply to adhere to the correct understanding of Islam. Which is the understanding of those who were the best among us. Those who understood the Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet(saw) better than any of us. And who are these people? Well the prophet tells us in this sahih hadith:
he Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said in a famous hadeeth narrated by 'Imraan bin Husayn (RA):هم
"Verily the best among you (to follow) is my generation (the Messenger Muhammad (SAW) and his Companions (RA)), then those who follow, and then those who follow them…" (Saheeh Muslim, Book: the Virtues of the Sahaabah, chapter 52 hadeeth #2535)
The Scholars have explained that this hadith refers to the first 3 generations after the Prophet(saw). They are called the Salaf As Saliheen in Arabic. It means Pious Predecessors.
Therefore, Salafism is simply to adhere to the Qur'an and Sunnah upon the manhaj(way) and methodology and understanding of the Salaf As saliheen. - As this is the correct understanding and they were the best among the Muslim Ummah. The Sahaaba were there during the time of the Prophet(saw), they knew the the true meaning of every single ayaatin the quran and hadith of the prophet, they lived through the context of when they came.
Finally, Saudi Arabia and their government does not represent "Wahhabism" or Salafiyyah in any way shape or form. Their actions nor their foreign policy. Rather I and many others make takfeer on MBS. I believe that MBS is an apostate. The evidence for my takfeer and others is that he has dismantled the Sharia' of Allah. Dismantling the Sharia' is a Major Kufr(disbelief). Moreover, they have also allied with oppressors who kill innocent muslims and wage war against muslims. Therefore, this is another nullifer of his Islam. Hence, MBS is a Kafir(non-muslim) and an apostate. Like him there are other apostate rulers the muslim world is ruled by such as that of Sisi in Egypt.
ISIS is a group which claims to have established an Islamic Caliphate and implement the divine law on the lands. However, their methodology in doing this is incorrect and they oppress and make takfir unjustly and kill innocent muslims wrongly. Their implementation of sharia' is wrong also. The majoity of scholars 99% of them have said ISIS is upon falsehood and that they are the modern day khawarij. Even other extremist groups such as Al- Qaeda and Taliban fight against them because of how extreme and wrong ISIS is and the falsehood they are upon. Moreover, if you didn't already know this- ISIS also makes takfir on Taliban and Al- Qaeda, they say they are also all Kuffar(non-muslims). This just shows how extreme they are relative to these other groups. They have nothing to do with "Wahhabism" or Salafiyyah.
People are very ignorant on these matters. These people who say "Wahhabism" is an evil cult are ignorants who do not understand what "Wahhabism" even is. They have not even read a single letter from the works of the great mujaddid Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdil Wahhab(rh). If they did they would understand that Saudi Arabia and ISIS do not represent "Wahhabism" at all. Shaykh MIAW(rh) was born in Najd in an area where shirk, and grave worshipping was widespread. He gave da'wah to the people to come back to At Tawheed(Monothiesm) - to Worship Allah alone. These people where using the graves as intercessors with Allah which is Shirk. This is the same as what the mushrikeen(polythiests) of Quraysh did at the time of the Prophet Muhammad(saw). They believed in Allah. They believed that Allah created all things however the Quraysh where mushrikeen because they used to worship the idols in order to get closer to Allah. They used to say they were using them as intercessors:
"And they worship other than Allah that which neither harms them nor benefits them, and they say, "These are our intercessors with Allah " Say, "Do you inform Allah of something He does not know in the heavens or on the earth?" Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him" - quran 1:18.
Shaykh MIAW(Muhammad Ibn Abdil Wahhab) revived tawheed. He explained tawheed by breaking it down into so laymen could understand it better so that they will understand what is Tawheed and what is Shirk. He gave da'wah to the people so that they may turn away from the shirk they had fallen into. This is what "Wahhabism" is. This is what is in his works. People today speak regarding matters of Islam without even opening up any book and reading the actual works of the scholars. They do not even read a single letter from these scholars and "idealogies" and then they make such false accusations from just read wikipedia. They become conpsiracy theorists, these people have no knowledge in Islam. They should instead read and try to refute these great scholarly works academically in the religion of Islam instead of making false lies and conspiracies.
Secondly, Salafism is simply to adhere to the correct understanding of Islam. Which is the understanding of those who were the best among us. Those who understood the Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet(saw) better than any of us. And who are these people? Well the prophet tells us in this sahih hadith:
he Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said in a famous hadeeth narrated by 'Imraan bin Husayn (RA):هم
"Verily the best among you (to follow) is my generation (the Messenger Muhammad (SAW) and his Companions (RA)), then those who follow, and then those who follow them…" (Saheeh Muslim, Book: the Virtues of the Sahaabah, chapter 52 hadeeth #2535)
The Scholars have explained that this hadith refers to the first 3 generations after the Prophet(saw). They are called the Salaf As Saliheen in Arabic. It means Pious Predecessors.
Therefore, Salafism is simply to adhere to the Qur'an and Sunnah upon the manhaj(way) and methodology and understanding of the Salaf As saliheen. - As this is the correct understanding and they were the best among the Muslim Ummah. The Sahaaba were there during the time of the Prophet(saw), they knew the the true meaning of every single ayaatin the quran and hadith of the prophet, they lived through the context of when they came.
Finally, Saudi Arabia and their government does not represent "Wahhabism" or Salafiyyah in any way shape or form. Their actions nor their foreign policy. Rather I and many others make takfeer on MBS. I believe that MBS is an apostate. The evidence for my takfeer and others is that he has dismantled the Sharia' of Allah. Dismantling the Sharia' is a Major Kufr(disbelief). Moreover, they have also allied with oppressors who kill innocent muslims and wage war against muslims. Therefore, this is another nullifer of his Islam. Hence, MBS is a Kafir(non-muslim) and an apostate. Like him there are other apostate rulers the muslim world is ruled by such as that of Sisi in Egypt.
You’re right, MBS is now a full-on kafir, trying to ‘modernise’ (read: remove Islam) Saudi Arabia.
Truly a disgusting horrific attack
I'm Sri Lankan and Catholic and thankfully none of my relatives were near it. Although my Mum's friends family were in one of the hotels and they all died except one of the daughters (4 years old) so now she's an orphan 
@RazzzBerries
@RazzzBerries
Original post by Surnia
Check your links before using them to try and prove your point as the Independent says '...the use of suicide bombers to target Christian civilians attending mass is new.'
As for the other links, alright? Let's hope it never happens, if one day Ramadan observers are targeted like this we'll see how the reporting goes. Yeah, Obama will be saying just that, 'tourists and Ramadan worshippers'. Just compare it to the reporting on Christchurch, where the word Muslim is used in every piece just as it should. Well done for finding the one mention of Christians in five links, that's my case debunked beyond doubt.
Original post by MoSaqib
Again, American and Israeli funded/trained ISIS is causing havoc on innocent people, and people will blame the Muslims. Muslims in Negombo are already sheltered to avoid reprisal attacks.
Sorry akhi, but ISIS does not work for America or Israel although they may have helped them indirectly via some of their actions. Yes, there are many officials in ISIS who are former military personnal of Iraq/Syrian government or they may have been high ranking officials in the rebellions who were trained by America but then they defected and joined ISIS. But america or Israel never directly trained and supported ISIS, and ISIS never worked for America or Israel, this is just a conspiracy. The weapons that ISIS got simply by stealing the arms after defeating FSA or assads governments in battles.
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