Law firms

Will poor GCSES (5 in english language and 4 in maths then 3 other grade 5s) hold me back in the law profession if i was to achieve AAA at A levels With a first? Magic circle firms and also the smaller less known firms

For me i dont think your grades define who you are or what you will get, if you put in dedication and effort you wont fail if ur accepted into the alevel course thats fine,

I am already taking A levels now, i just want to know if presuming i achieved AAA and a Firsts would i even stand a chance at magic circle law firms simply due to bad GCSE results

Maybe. It can do.

Depends on your A Levels, degree, and which uni you go to.

If you get AAA/*** at A Level and a 1st at Oxbridge, then a job within the magic circle is likely lol

but at least you have 5 pass grades including Maths and English so you're alright :P

Yea i think Oxbridge is out of question haha, im not sure which "Russel group" universities will accept me with those GCSE grades maybe somewhere like Leeds, So Yea im just not sure where those grades leave me in terms of a good starting salary

If I’m completely honest, your GCSEs do count towards getting a place at a good uni and a good law firm. Studying law at a top uni is probably out of the question, unless you’ve got some mitigating circumstances. Tbh your low grades will likely hold you back - most people at magic circle firms achieve the top grades consistently.

‘Most’ is important here though. There’s nothing to say you have no shot. If you get very good extra curricular and work experience you might have a shot. But if I’m being realistic, it doesn’t look great. But that doesn’t mean you can’t apply to other law firms and work your way up to a magic circle.

Don’t let others put you down. You did ****, it happens. Work on your A-levels and try not to project your grades and future career path just yet. Anyone who says ‘grades don’t define you’ doesn’t understand how the real world works. Grades define you in the eyes of the employer, that’s the unfortunate truth.

Wish you the best nonetheless

Well firms do ask for your GCSE grades, but they don't specifically ask for any "minimum requirements", so it might be a leap to conclusively say that they count to the extent you're making out. They might be a consideration, when taken with the rest of the application, which is a different story. If the OP got AAA at A level and then went onto get a First at University of Leeds (which is a very good Uni), then it's unlikely that he would be refused based purely because his GCSEs weren't great... especially if the rest of his application showed the passion and skill which recruitment wish to see.

That’s pretty much what I said. Grades matter, but they’re not the only thing that counts. It also depends on firms - some firms are more focused on academics than others. These are all things to consider. Also I don’t think I’d consider Leeds a ‘very good uni’. It’s probably more of an ‘average uni’ when it comes to RG. Durham/UCL/LSE/Oxbridge are very good. I’d try and get into one of those.

Regardless of whether you personally consider it to be, objectively speaking it is a very good University. It's on the doorstep of the second largest legal market in the UK. The law dept is established and well respected academically, and graduating students successfully compete for roles in the top firms, including MC firms.

I'm not suggesting that the OP shouldn't aspire to apply to Oxbridge or the 'golden triangle' Universities, quite the opposite. But let's not discredit University of Leeds...

Leeds is something like top 20 for law. Wouldn’t class that as very good. I’ve not met any Leeds graduates at ACs/VSs/LinkedIn. But ofc that’s not to say they don’t exist.

My point was simply that there are much better universities. I’ve met Kent graduates at top law firms, going to an average uni still isn’t the end of the world.

1) You're placing too much weight on league tables. 2) just because you haven't met people, doesn't mean they don't exist. There are studies of trainees in City law firms which shows that Leeds has plenty of graduates go on to work in these positions. 3) whether you consider there to be "better Universities" has no bearing on whether Leeds is a very good University.

I'm not going to argue with you. But whether you intended it or not, your original post re the OPs potential recruitment opportunities reads unnecessarily bleak:

"I’m completely honest, your GCSEs do count towards getting a place at a good uni and a good law firm"
"your low grades will likely hold you back - most people at magic circle firms achieve the top grades consistently"
"But if I’m being realistic, it doesn’t look great"
"Studying law at a top uni is probably out of the question"

And at then you've contradicted yourself with your later post...

"Durham/UCL/LSE/Oxbridge are very good. I’d try and get into one of those"

1) I’m not actually basing it on league tables. My assumption was based on the reputation of each uni and what you hear as an undergrad, etc. Everyone knows oxbridge, everyone knows the top London unis, everyone knows the top northern unis. Those are considered ‘very good unis’.
2) that’s patently obvious - but considering I’ve been to a fair amount of AC/VS/connections on LinkedIn, I’ve got a decent idea of current/future trainees at top firms and where they usually graduate from.
3) actually, it does. I didn’t know you were expecting a lengthy essay predicated with a clear definition of very good, but I essentially meant very good = one of the best/top universities. Leeds is not one of the best. You could argue that very good = not the best, but still good - but then this is clearly just a misunderstanding. I don’t think Leeds is a bad uni, but it’s not top.

Idk why you’re so intent on arguing this small point - seems to a have struck a nerve in a Leeds graduate.

I was being realistic; the vast majority of top law firm trainees achieve very good grades - but I also followed that up by specifying that some firms place more emphasis than others. I don’t think it’s very helpful to op to say ‘keep trying you’ll make it’.

I agree with your point about contradicting myself, I clearly hadn’t proof read my whole point to ensure consistency. So if you’re trying to gain points in this pointless debate, sure 1 point to you.

On the University topic. I never claimed Leeds is one of the best. My words were very good, and I stand by those. I wouldn't say Oxbridge Universities are very good, I would call them excellent or outstanding. So I think you've just misunderstood what I said.

I'm not a Leeds graduate. I'm not a Leeds student. I have zero connection with Leeds at all.

The reason I've called you out for your posts is because although I understand that you mean well, I don't think you've really thought about the implications about painting such a dark picture of this posters potential future. How would you feel if you learned that, based on your muddled advice, they didn't bother pursuing law at all.

Unless you have very strong evidence that firms place enough attachment to GCSE grades as to justify telling somebody that "your low grades will hold you back", you need to be careful about making such sweeping statements to someone who is probably 16 or 17 and will accept what you say as being correct.

No problem, seems it’s just a misunderstanding.

While I think you make a very good point, I think I made an effort to provide constructive and helpful feedback. I mean, this is TSR, you’ve got some people here who’s only purpose is to troll posters and provide sarcastic/unhelpful advice. OP should learn quickly not to take this forum seriously.

I don’t have any stats to back that up, but I don’t think I need them. Firms place a strong emphasis on academics, that much is clear. Some place more emphasis, others place less. You have to go out and network with grad rec to get a feel for how important those grades are. So I stand by my point that his low grades will hold him back in such a competitive industry, but that doesn’t mean it’s not possible. I know of someone who didn’t even get a levels and is now at a reputable law firm after years of experience/ECs.

You make a good point in general though, but this is an inherent problem with Internet forums in general.

EDIT: another point I wanted to add is that if OP stops pursuing law because some random guy on TSR said so, it’s best that they drop out now. Because it only gets harder, and facing rejection takes a lot of resilience.

I completely agree concerning internet forums. It's just that when someone looks up to you- someone older and more experienced- for advice, they can tend to take what you say at its word.

I honestly wasn't trying to pick a fight and I hope that you took no offence, I just wanted things to be very clear.