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A Satanic activity book for children Watch

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    (Original post by Déscartés)
    in modern times religion, as far as I know hasn't tried to hinder academic progress.
    The Young Earth Creationists are a damnable nuisance and deny anything and everything in science. They spread lies and confusion online and cause no end of trouble.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I'm not talking about what Christians are commanded to do. I'm talking about what Christians' god intends - heaven for those who deserve it, hell for the rest. If that isn't the very definition of loving only those who deserve it I don't know what is.
    The point I originally made was to do with the morally questionable commandment to Satanists to only be nice to people if they are deemed worthy of kindness. I didn't even assert a belief in the Christian God, but if you want to talk about this then sure. The Christian stance is that nobody deserves to go to Heaven. Everybody has disobeyed God and is worthy of punishment. However, since God is kind, and he loves us even though we rebel against him, he provided a way to escape the punishment we deserve. That way is Jesus Christ, God come in the flesh who died on the cross taking the punishment that we deserve for our sins against God. If we put our trust in Jesus Christ and repent, changing our attitude to our sins and turning from them, then our sins will be forgiven. If we don't want to recognise the sacrifice God made for us on the cross, and try to justify ourselves, thinking that we can go to Heaven by doing good deeds, then we don't get to go to Heaven because we haven't truly desired to be forgiven for our rebellion against God. God doesn't want anybody to go to Hell, but a truly loving God does not force people to live by his commands. The people who end up in Hell ultimately choose to go there.

    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Obviously, after the explanation, it is rather less mysterious. There are scientific explanations for the origins of life and the origins of man (though the former have not yet been proven strongly enough). I'd rather give credence to them than to religious explanations that aren't in accordance with what we know.

    Galileo, rather famously, was held to be a heretic when he theorised that the heavens did not revolve around Earth. Religion was proved to be wrong; rationality, and science, had the explanation of a mystery.
    A mystery by definition is something that is practically impossible to explain. Atheistic theories on the origins of life and mankind hold no more weight than religious ones, and are pure speculation. Can you point me to the part in the Bible that says the sun revolves around the Earth?
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    (Original post by Déscartés)
    in modern times religion, as far as I know hasn't tried to hinder academic progress.
    Other than some schools redacting exam questions about evolution from their pupils' papers in public exams after not teaching it to them, and others going to court to try and avoid teaching evolution, you mean? Doesn't this hinder academic progress?
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    (Original post by Crabbages)
    Atheistic theories on the origins of life and mankind hold no more weight than religious ones, and are pure speculation.
    :stupid: I'm out. You can't debate with an idiot without educating them and I can't be arsed.
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    (Original post by Simes)
    The Young Earth Creationists are a damnable nuisance and deny anything and everything in science. They spread lies and confusion online and cause no end of trouble.
    I understand creationists but they are the minority and do not speak for all all Christians

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    (Original post by Simes)
    :stupid: I'm out. You can't debate with an idiot without educating them and I can't be arsed.
    That's fine with me man, but there's no need for name-calling. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.
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    (Original post by Crabbages)
    The people who end up in Hell ultimately choose to go there.
    Of course they do. :rolleyes: Just as the blackmail victim who can't pay has chosen to be exposed. :rolleyes:

    A mystery by definition is something that is practically impossible to explain.
    Well, no. A mystery is something that hasn't yet been explained.


    Atheistic theories on the origins of life and mankind hold no more weight than religious ones, and are pure speculation.
    Scientific hypotheses on the origin of life are very far from being speculative in most cases. Scientific theories on the origin of man are accepted as being as near fact as it is possible to get in science.


    Can you point me to the part in the Bible that says the sun revolves around the Earth?
    Certainly. There are several places. Two of them are as follows:

    Ecclesiastes 1:5

    The sun rises, and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.
    Psalms 19:6

    It [the sun] rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other; nothing is hidden from its heat.
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    Ain't a thing wrong with Satanism, Lucy is a real cool dude.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Of course they do. :rolleyes: Just as the blackmail victim who can't pay has chosen to be exposed. :rolleyes:

    Certainly. There are several places. Two of them are as follows:

    Ecclesiastes 1:5



    Psalms 19:6
    That analogy insinuates that we are unable to change our ways or accept God when in reality those two things are perfectly achievable.

    And those quotes show nothing. Similarly do we not say the sun rises and sets?

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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Of course they do. :rolleyes: Just as the blackmail victim who can't pay has chosen to be exposed. :rolleyes:
    There is nobody on Earth who is in a position where they cannot receive forgiveness of sins. Nobody of sound mind cannot choose to repent and put their faith in God.


    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Scientific hypotheses on the origin of life are very far from being speculative in most cases. Scientific theories on the origin of man are accepted as being as near fact as it is possible to get in science.
    Are they facts or are they near facts? If they're near facts, but not proven, I guess I should just take it in faith that they're true, right?


    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Certainly. There are several places. Two of them are as follows:

    Ecclesiastes 1:5



    Psalms 19:6
    Which of these says the sun revolves around the Earth? Is it not still widely said that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Of course not. Do you?



    I didn't quite say that. They obviously believed in religion as they used it to motivate and control their followers. They almost certainly believed in the benefits of the rules they promulgated. What they didn't believe was the mythology and justification - the mythology - they created around the rules in order to make it all believable.



    I agree. And it applies to you too.
    No, which is why i'm not making claims about that. Just assuming the most likely option (That Mohammed believed in Islam)

    So you're saying those people had no theistic motivations for their religiosity?? Again; evidence? I mean Christian Scholars, communicating to each other, not the ignorant masses (I doubt the peasants read or understood the teachings of Aquinas for example) were all just pretending to each other?? Like, a 2000 year old children's game? And nobody references it in that time? Why go to the effort of recounciling Christianity with Aristotelian metaphysics if they didn't believe God was real?? Okay, back up your theory with strong arguments and sources. I don't know why you would think this is at all plausible though.
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    (Original post by Déscartés)
    Is it really necessary to bring up the fact Catholic priests are virgins, wear what you seem to be "stupid outfits" and the stereotype that they're old? I would also say that those aren't atheistic subjects, just normal subjects where religion isn't the focus.
    Well I was being rather polemic there but I do think it is relevant to point out they are virgins because it's weird and makes them sexually frustrated. They also believe they can teach people about their sexuality and what sexual acts are wrong, without any experience.

    (Original post by Déscartés)
    And religion doesn't try to stop people learning and Pope Francis even advocates scientific research. Of course you'll bring up the Galileo story but in modern times religion, as far as I know hasn't tried to hinder academic progress.
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    That's only because religion has become far less relevant and powerful in the Western world so has had to accomodate science to survive. The religious are still less likely to know much about science or believe in evolution.
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)


    Many of them didn't. It was one rule for those at the top and another for the laymen. Consider all the mistresses of Medieval Priests.

    Religion deliberately tries to stop people learning and only without it can we truly learn about the universe.
    So Medieval Priests got laid = they didn't believe in God. Nah. Maybe there were a few atheists just going into the Church to get power (It was one of the only ways non nobility could get into positions of power) but the majority of people, in all classes, were religious.

    What the other poster is trying to say is that all religious inventors and leaders didn't believe in their God and they made it all up to control their societies. Which is ludicrous.
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    Isn't this just about letting kids do what they want? Some people are satanists good for them? What's the big deal lol.

    PC Brigade is out in force!
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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    So Medieval Priests got laid = they didn't believe in God. Nah. Maybe there were a few atheists just going into the Church to get power (It was one of the only ways non nobility could get into positions of power) but the majority of people, in all classes, were religious.

    What the other poster is trying to say is that all religious inventors and leaders didn't believe in their God and they made it all up to control their societies. Which is ludicrous.
    I didn't say Priests getting laid means they don't believe in God. It means they are hypocritical and not as bothered by the threat of eternal damnation as you'd think, which is reason to believe that their belief wasn't iron tight.

    I disagree with the other poster but there are many examples of religion being used to control society in the past and in modern times, even if they founders of the religions were genuine believers.
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    I didn't say Priests getting laid means they don't believe in God. It means they are hypocritical and not as bothered by the threat of eternal damnation as you'd think, which is reason to believe that their belief wasn't iron tight.

    I disagree with the other poster but there are many examples of religion being used to control society in the past and in modern times, even if they founders of the religions were genuine believers.
    Well, to be fair, in Christianity you can get off anything if you A repent (and mean it) and B Believe in God. It's a complete myth that people were prudish anti sex people. On the ground, that people would have sex was pretty much accepted. It doesn't even get you one of the worst sentences in Dante's inferno I don't think.

    You can both use religion to control and believe in it.
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    Well I was being rather polemic there but I do think it is relevant to point out they are virgins because it's weird and makes them sexually frustrated. They also believe they can teach people about their sexuality and what sexual acts are wrong, without any experience.


    That's only because religion has become far less relevant and powerful in the Western world so has had to accomodate science to survive. The religious are still less likely to know much about science or believe in evolution.
    Makes them weird to you, its not compulsory to have sex you know? And I didn't realise that you knew how all priests feel and can speak of their sexual frustration on all of their behalf.

    I would disagree that religion is less relevant although I do agree that the church doesn't have the power it use to. I do disagree that it has to accommodate science to survive as there are plenty of Christian's who do not. And while not all of them may believe in evolution, we do attend the same schools as everyone else and so know the same amount of science as everyone else.

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    (Original post by Déscartés)
    I would disagree that religion is less relevant although I do agree that the church doesn't have the power it use to. I do disagree that it has to accommodate science to survive as there are plenty of Christian's who do not. And while not all of them may believe in evolution, we do attend the same schools as everyone else and so know the same amount of science as everyone else.

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    It is clearly less relevant. It's only very important to a very small number of people, a lot less than it used to be.

    Merely attending the same schools as everyone else (not even true with faith schools) does not mean you know the same amount of science at all. That doesn't logically follow. Plus if they don't believe in the fact of evolution then they do know less and that is a clear example of religion holding back scientific knowledge and teaching.
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    (Original post by Crabbages)
    Which of these says the sun revolves around the Earth? Is it not still widely said that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west?
    The key words are

    and hastens to the place where it rises
    It does no such thing. It hasn't gone around Earth at all.
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    It is clearly less relevant. It's only very important to a very small number of people, a lot less than it used to be.

    Merely attending the same schools as everyone else (not even true with faith schools) does not mean you know the same amount of science at all. That doesn't logically follow. Plus if they don't believe in the fact of evolution then they do know less and that is a clear example of religion holding back scientific knowledge and teaching.
    Fine but we are all taught the same science just with some differences depending on exam board but it's just a matter of what you choose to retain. And not necessarily, you know of God and yet don't believe in him. Not believing in something doesn't mean you know less about it. And it holds back the few that choose to not believe in it, not society as a whole.

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