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tom391
If I remember correctly, Pembroke College Oxford was the only one to accept the bribe
Found it: http://www.akme.btinternet.co.uk/Broke1.html

Revealed: degrees for sale at Oxford college
Front page report by Jonathan Calvert in the The Sunday Times , 24th March 2002

An Oxford University College is prepared to offer places to students in return for cash donations, a Sunday Times investigation has found.
An undercover reporter, posing as a wealthy banker, was offered preferential treatment for his son in return for a substantial donation to one of the university's oldest colleges.
The "banker" was told by senior staff at Pembroke college they could create an extra place on a law degree course for his son. To avoid leaks to the press, a senior member of staff advised that the donation be paid through a secret trust.

In a covertly taped interview, the Reverend John Platt, a senior fellow at the college, revealed that similar deals had been struck in the past. He said Pembroke needed the money because it was "poor as ****".
He said: "Normally there is a quota for the course, which is a decided depending on the teaching resources of the college... so let's say there are 10 places. Now those 10 places go only to the very best students. Additional to that, if we agreed it is for the good of the college... then it may be that we could go over that quota."

The revelation threatens to undermine Oxford's claim to award places solely on merit. Yesterday Dr Colin Lucas, the vice-chancellor, announced an inquiry into the college's behaviour, which he feared could "contravene all the principles on which our admissions process is based".

Estelle Morris, the Education Secretary, said: "admissions are a matter for the university, but this is unacceptable. It flies in the face of what we are all trying to achieve, which is a higher education system where access is gained through ability and achievement, rather than background."

The Sunday Times investigation began after a tip-off from a businessman who claimed an unnamed Oxford college tried to solicit a large donation. "It was clear from the conversation a donation would secure a place," said the businessman, who did not wish to be named.
The revelation contradicts Oxford's claims that it never gives preferential treatment on the grounds of wealth or background. It was stung by criticism of elitism by Gordon Brown, the chancellor, over its rejection of Laura Spence, a comprehensive schoolgirl later accepted by Harvard.

Last week a reporter approached four colleges posing as a banker prepared to donate £300,000 to help his son get a place to study law. On Thursday he met two representatives from Pembroke College: Platt, a former admissions tutor who is the student liaison officer, and Mary-Jane Hilton, who is in charge of fundraising.

At the meeting Platt made it clear that an application by the banker's son would be looked upon "extremely favourably" if a donation were made. He said pressure could be applied on tutors to create an extra place. He later said he had reason to believe that tutors in the law faculty were "open to this possibility".

Platt said: "and they [the tutors] would know very quickly if he were to fit in... then there they could do a one-off and the tutor would be aware of giving him preferential treatment." He later added: "We know the Law tutors, and shall we say law tutors understand. They see the bigger picture..." The Sunday Times has no evidence that any Pembroke law tutor has actually discussed or participated in preferential treatment for potential students.
Platt confirmed that similar arrangements had been made for other aspiring undergraduates: "If you're going to keep it absolutely, totally confidential," he said, "the answer is: in the past it has been done, okay?"
Reply 21
grumballcake
To be honest, I think you may be being a bit naive. To get someone an offer is a case of bribing the right people. The key person is obviously the admissions tutor and you'd pay her to a) give your child high marks at interview and b) make sure that the second interview is also conducted with a sympathetic (bribed) tutor. Then you pay another tutor to write the written work that's submitted in support of the application.

Because the interviews aren't taped, that would be enough to shift a moderate student up into the offer range and no-one would be any the wiser. As long as the chap isn't a complete dunce, it would be shrugged off if they under-perform later. It's also possible to 'assist' the person while at colleg, at least until exam time.

There would be the written work and the interview scores to support any questions about the decision. It's likely that they might decide the chap had a good day at interview and maybe had some help with the written work. Hey, it's hardly as if the latter is completely unknown.

Of course, if the prospective applicant's grades are crap then it's much more glaring and they'd still need to make the offer grades. After all, an EE offer to a dummy is not going to bear much scrutiny. Still, with careful A-level selevction (heavy on coursework) even that could be managed.

Overall cost? Maybe £20k-30k.



Very clear and concise brief description of how it could be done :smile:

I think I aren't naive - look at the country from which I come, you know corruption is not strange to me. It is the "bribability" of the famed Oxbridge education that surprises me! I once thought that administrations in England were corruption-free (people told me that), especially the world-renowned British education; but now it seems I will have to alter my view :frown:
Reply 22
visesh
If I cant pay you with money, would my body count?


Like, for medical research?
There is corruption in the UK, but it's the exception, rather than the norm. I deal a lot with China and when I had problems with some authorities there, a Chinese person asked "Why don't you just bribe them?". She went on to tell me how she and others pass their driving tests in China (i.e. get in the car, pay the bribe to the examine, drive 100 metres down the road and get out with a licence).

In the UK, it's really uncommon to have bribery, which is why there's such a fuss when it's discovered.
Reply 24
Ipsen
I once thought that administrations in England were corruption-free (people told me that), especially the world-renowned British education; but now it seems I will have to alter my view :frown:


What, because of an isolated incident that happened 3 years ago? It isn't even the Insitutution acting as whole, but just two individuals. The reporter tried at other colleges first, and was told no. Pembroke's tutors were the only ones that accepted.
Reply 25
ah well. corruption everywhere.

contact hours decreased, foreign student uptake risen highly (cos they pay more), standards lowered... it's not learning any more, it's just a product they're selling to the students.

but the fact it's gotten to oxford - :eek: :eek:

that's pretty bad.
Reply 26
Hash
What, because of an isolated incident that happened 3 years ago? It isn't even the Insitutution acting as whole, but just two individuals. The reporter tried at other colleges first, and was told no. Pembroke's tutors were the only ones that accepted.


So do you mean such corruptions at minor scales are nothing and we should stay still contemplating them, not to show our expression recklessly before it evolves into an epidemy?
Ipsen
So do you mean such corruptions at minor scales are nothing?
To be fair, both people involved were instantly fired. In any system there are always people who are corrupt. Whether the system is corrupt depends on whether those people are tolerated. In this case, it's clear that they were not.
Would you be able to get away with paying for the salary of a professor for three years. That way no-one else misses out on a place but you are effectivley buying your way into oxford. It would otherwise be legit though because you are basically just paying to be educated. I think...
Joshworkinghard
Would you be able to get away with paying for the salary of a professor for three years.
No, because professors aren't funded that way. Cambridge funds colleges based upon a system called BUNs (Basic Undergraduate Numbers). If one college started getting its own cash by selling indulgences, then pretty soon all the rich kids would do it. That would significantly devalue the Oxbridge degree.

The point is that an Oxbridge degree means something because of the tough selection process. If it simply meant that daddy is rich, then the whole reputation would suffer. The academics themselves would be discredited and would probably leave rather than have their professional reputation tarmished. The whole thing would be a vicious spiral downwards.
So why does an oxbridge degree from 30+ years ago still hold prestige because then selection was more inclined to look at if they attended private school and family names etc.
Reply 31
2 5 +
Like, for medical research?

Nope:wink:


:frown:
Reply 32
Ipsen
Very clear and concise brief description of how it could be done :smile:

I think I aren't naive - look at the country from which I come, you know corruption is not strange to me. It is the "bribability" of the famed Oxbridge education that surprises me! I once thought that administrations in England were corruption-free (people told me that), especially the world-renowned British education; but now it seems I will have to alter my view :frown:

OK OK LETS calm down..

the guy was offering £300 000.

they were not offering to give his son a place over another candidate, but to create a new place

They still said he would need AAB and to be good enough to get a 2.1 at Oxford

The other two colleges turned the offer down straight away

The two involved were sacked

Bad? yes
Shocking bribability? hardly

As for the idea that £30k would buy you an EE offer for a complete dummy...:rolleyes:
Reply 33
Ipsen
So do you mean such corruptions at minor scales are nothing and we should stay still contemplating them, not to show our expression recklessly before it evolves into an epidemy?


No, I'm just saying that this was one isolated incident, which couldn't even be blamed on the university but actually two individual. If the university had allowed it, I could see your point. What actually happened was that the tutors in question resigned/were fired on the spot.
Waldo
As for the idea that £30k would buy you an EE offer for a complete dummy...:rolleyes:
My phrasing was bad in my message. I said that they couldn't give an EE offer to a dummy. It was that an AAB offer might be managed, particularly if they could give him a bit of help in getting the grades.

Funnily enough, I though that my description was rather prescient, given I hadn't read the article. :smile: The real difference was that the money would have been going to the college, not the tutor's own pocket. You need way less money to bribe a tutor than a college and it's a lot less obvious that you've done it.

"Welcome Mr William Gates IV, yes an EE offer in medicine is entirely appropriate because of your outstanding success so far...".
Reply 35
I suppose if this kind of practice does place (and I sincerely hope it doesn't), it would be very difficult to detect. The receiver of such money would not disclose under any circumstances that this had happened, and likewise, the candidate in question wouldn't want people to know that they didn't deserve the place on academic grounds.
Reply 36
In reality, bribery at the scale we're talking(£300,000) is extremely unlikely to actually happen. Even somebody with more money than sense wouldn't bribe Oxford tutors £300,000 in a very dodgy deal, when they could just pay a £250,000 official donation to Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Stanford/MIT and get an official place.
Reply 37
Hash
In reality, bribery at the scale we're talking(£300,000) is extremely unlikely to actually happen. Even somebody with more money than sense wouldn't bribe Oxford tutors £300,000 in a very dodgy deal, when they could just pay a £250,000 official donation to Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Stanford/MIT and get an official place.

Well that is assuming that they would prefer or be equally happy at an American university.
Reply 38
Adhsur
Well that is assuming that they would prefer or be equally happy at an American university.



Not only that, but their entire bribe would be wasted if the university came to know of it, and the student was then thrown out.

So why spend 300k on a bribe that will go into tutors' pockets and risk being thrown out, when you could spend a lower or equal amount and get an official place in an American university, where the money will be used for the good of the university.
Reply 39
Hash
In reality, bribery at the scale we're talking(£300,000) is extremely unlikely to actually happen. Even somebody with more money than sense wouldn't bribe Oxford tutors £300,000 in a very dodgy deal, when they could just pay a £250,000 official donation to Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Stanford/MIT and get an official place.


oxford tutors are not after money! - they are after a good time, and that usually means smart people in the related field they can have a good time with (educational time) mind you:smile:. I really dont think they'd give someone like bush in cos they have the money! afterall, money is not an issue to a lot of tutors and as i said, its not money they are after, but stuff like an intellectual conversatoin etc - which bush and peops like him are unlikely to provide - lol - isn't that the purpose of the interviews? to filter out who they like and who they dont? afterall, everyone at the interviews are smart

pk

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