Pride and Prejudice- the representation of women???

Hi! I'm more than happy to help, but could you clear a few things up first? :biggrin:

Bella_Bridges

For my disseration, I'm aiming to compare the representation of women in Pride and prejudice compared to that of Wuthering Heights.

Do you mean that you're comparing the presentation of women, or you're considering how representative the characters are of the traditional image of 'the woman'?

Bella_Bridges

I've got alot more to work with in Wuthering Heights as Catherine is clearly not representing women at that time....while on the other hand Pride and Prejudice is proving alot more difficult!

Are you referring to her not acting in the ways that a reader may expect a woman to act? Or because she says "I am Heathcliff," she becomes almost masculine? :biggrin:

(I particularly like that idea...)

Bella_Bridges

The setting conveys the way women were expected to behave at that time but Elizabeth doesn't like the system although she still goes along with it...so how can i compare that to wuthering heights? :eek3:

So by 'setting', you're referring to the restrictions of a male-driven society, where the men own the land, etc, and where there are clear social structure governing the behaviour of women? But Elizabeth rebels against this because she doesn't seem to 'need' a man, though her mother/society deem marriage to be a necessity?

If you could look into these I'd be happy to advise. :biggrin:

Reply 2

OP

Hey thanks for offering to help :smile:

I'm basically comparing how the novels present the female characters at the time. Like how women were expected to be well mannered find husbands etc...and this is shown to an extent in Pride and Prejudice, as it focusses on the Bennets finding husbands, but not completely as Elizabeth internally doesn't agree with the system. Sorry if im not making sense once again lol! Also, the way Catherine is represented as a rebel in Wuthering Heights contrasts with what is expected of women at that time... Bronte takes her rebelion one step further than Austen's mere technique of implying that Elizabeth is unhappy.

I can't remember what else you were unsure about so I'll post this first lol :smile:

Reply 3

OP

Do you mean that you're comparing the presentation of women, or you're considering how representative the characters are of the traditional image of 'the woman'?

Right well...I guess the second... i haven't actually constructed a question yet so I'm open to suggestions on what is better?

Are you referring to her not acting in the ways that a reader may expect a woman to act? Or because she says "I am Heathcliff," she becomes almost masculine? :biggrin:

(I particularly like that idea...)

I think both apply, as she isn't acting the way society expects her to by being so fierce with things such as the "I am Heathcliff" quote scenario

So by 'setting', you're referring to the restrictions of a male-driven society, where the men own the land, etc, and where there are clear social structure governing the behaviour of women? But Elizabeth rebels against this because she doesn't seem to 'need' a man, though her mother/society deem marriage to be a necessity?

Yes! :smile:

The climate of male and even female oppression is the setting Im hoping to be focussing on in both novels

Reply 4

Bella_Bridges

I'm basically comparing how the novels present the female characters at the time. Like how women were expected to be well mannered find husbands etc...and this is shown to an extent in Pride and Prejudice, as it focusses on the Bennets finding husbands, but not completely as Elizabeth internally doesn't agree with the system. Sorry if im not making sense once again lol! Also, the way Catherine is represented as a rebel in Wuthering Heights contrasts with what is expected of women at that time... Bronte takes her rebelion one step further than Austen's mere technique of implying that Elizabeth is unhappy.

Okie

First of all, you might want to take a look at this thread as, although your topics of focus aren't the same, your novels are - http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1150022

Secondly...

Pride and Prejudice
Is Elizabeth the only character you were going to focus on?
It might be interesting to consider to what extent Austen uses hyperbole in the attitudes of Elizabeth, Mrs Bennet and Lady Catherine de Bourgh, each of whom represent (and are stereotypes of?) various attitudes towards women and a woman's duty.
... And that's a good point - it will probably be quite important for you to separate the presentation of 'womanhood' (tenderness, softness, gossiping nature, etc :biggrin:

) from the presentation of 'a woman's duty/place in society' - is it likely that one of these two has changed over time, whereas the other has remained more constant? :biggrin:

Do you think that the essence of 'womanhood' has changed since the time of Austen's writing? What is Elizabeth's rebellion an indication of? How similar is Elizabeth to a 'modern' woman? (Just a few things you'll need to think about, but won't necessarily use in the essay. :wink:

)

Presentation of women vs. representative nature of the characters
I like both ideas! :biggrin:

"the presentation of..." is a more commonly used phraseology, but an examiner may like a more adventurous task, if you handle it well! :biggrin:

"The climate of male and even female oppression"
Sounds good to me. :biggrin:

This will also help you to look at form/structure/setting which is vital in addressing the 'language' aspects of any piece of coursework. You may wish to consider how isolation as a result of setting plays a part in both novels - does it separate the characters from societal norms? Or not? Does the lack/abundance of other characters affect the reader's appreciation of the narrative? of the women?

Language
As mentioned above, it will be very important to compare the narrative voice used - what is the effect of using the masculine narrative of Lockwood in Wuthering Heights?

Hope this is of some use. :biggrin:

Feel free to reply with any answers to the questions I've raised if you want me to discuss further. If you use the 'quote' button when replying to me, it make the new post easier for me to identify. :wink:

Reply 5

OP

Aaymee

"The climate of male and even female oppression"
Sounds good to me. :biggrin:

This will also help you to look at form/structure/setting which is vital in addressing the 'language' aspects of any piece of coursework. You may wish to consider how isolation as a result of setting plays a part in both novels - does it separate the characters from societal norms? Or not? Does the lack/abundance of other characters affect the reader's appreciation of the narrative? of the women?

Language
As mentioned above, it will be very important to compare the narrative voice used - what is the effect of using the masculine narrative of Lockwood in Wuthering Heights?

First of all THANK YOU for replying so quickly and being extremely informative and useful ! :biggrin:

The language part about Lockwood being a masculine narrator is interesting idea....I could mention how, being male, he may bias his narration and thus perspective of women in Wuthering Heights? I'm not sure what I could mention about narration in Pride and Prejudice...as it's 3rd person i think? How could that contrast with the nelly>Lockwood narration where biased opinions may affect the retelling of the story?

Also... could you clarify what you said about the isolation in both novels? I understand that the isolation of Wuthering Heights makes the characters different from normal as they do not socialise with society at that time, but once again I'm not sure how this fits in with Pride and Prejudice though lol.... that novel is really proving difficult for me to contrast with Wuthering Heights which seems rich in analysis!! :smile:

Thank youuuuuuu so much again !! :biggrin:

Reply 6

Bella_Bridges

First of all THANK YOU for replying so quickly and being extremely informative and useful ! :biggrin:

The language part about Lockwood being a masculine narrator is interesting idea....I could mention how, being male, he may bias his narration and thus perspective of women in Wuthering Heights? I'm not sure what I could mention about narration in Pride and Prejudice...as it's 3rd person i think? How could that contrast with the nelly>Lockwood narration where biased opinions may affect the retelling of the story?

There's a relevant quote somewhere showing Lockwood's unreliability... *searches* ... Lockwood is describing Heathcliff here:
“He’ll love and hate, equally undercover, and esteem it a species of impertinence to be loved or hated again – No, I’m running too fast – I bestow my own attributes over-liberally on him.” p3, Oxford World Classics edition.

Narration in P&P - perhaps you could do some research into Austen herself, her attitude towards notions of feminism. It may be useful to use Jane as a touchstone, if you will, as she is perhaps presented as the 'perfect' woman - if Austen has Jane speak in a certain way, how does her style change when Lizzie speaks? Maybe look at sentence length (abruptness, etc), long and soft sounds vs harsh, plosive ones in speech - who dominates the narrative? Maybe look at the way that Lizzie speaks to her mother when refusing to marry Mr Collins, compared to the way Jane speaks. What is the effect of including a lot of intimate dialogue between sisters?

Bella_Bridges

Also... could you clarify what you said about the isolation in both novels? I understand that the isolation of Wuthering Heights makes the characters different from normal as they do not socialise with society at that time, but once again I'm not sure how this fits in with Pride and Prejudice though lol.... that novel is really proving difficult for me to contrast with Wuthering Heights which seems rich in analysis!! :smile:

Thank youuuuuuu so much again !! :biggrin:

Isolation - there are a lot of scenes where Elizabeth isolates herself by walking. Why does she do this? Is she trying to distance herself from something? Also, although there are more characters in P&P than WH, Austen still doesn't really show the full spectrum of society as Bronte does. Because of this, you could consider the ways in which Austen's narrative is affected by quite a limited social sphere - even Lizzie explains to Lady C de B that she is "a gentleman's daughter" - so is Austen's portrayal more developed because she focuses on one social sphere, rather than considering many different ones? (F. Scott Fitzgerald says "life is more effectively viewed from a single window," or something like that. :biggrin:

You see?

)

Also, no problem :biggrin:

I'm on a gap year so talking literature is good for me (going to study it at uni) so I'm happy to help!

Reply 7

OP

Im going to print all the notes you've gave me and definetly use them for my dissertation! So helpful! Thanks once again :smile:

I may post more questions while I'm actually writing it, if your sure you don't mind :smile:

Where you hoping to study literature?

Reply 8