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Attacks on Muslims have soared in London since the 7 July bombings watch

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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    Do you think it's really justifiable to punish people for "their own loser countries" failing when these failures are often nothing to do with them, and totally out of their control?

    Does contributing to the UK necessarily require feeling a certain alligence to the country? I've got to be honest, I feel no great alligence to this place, am I not able to contribute? I was born in Cambridge to British parents, by the way.
    I'm not punishing these loosers. They're not our responsibility. They have no moral right to be here.

    I dont feel great alligence to this decaying country either. But space is limited and I'd rather have decent people who want to be here for what it is rather than *******s who want to turn it into a ****ing Islamic republic or just want state benefits.
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    (Original post by The Watcher)
    I'm not punishing these loosers. They're not our responsibility. They have no moral right to be here.

    I dont feel great alligence to this decaying country either. But space is limited and I'd rather have decent people who want to be here for what it is rather than *******s who want to turn it into a ****ing Islamic republic or just want state benefits.
    maybe you should move?
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    (Original post by ayaan)
    Do you know how many Christians there are in the middle East? Trust me there are a few churches there.
    Tolerance of other religions isn't a keystone of muslim faith, or even tolerance in general. Do a google search; there's plenty of persecution in islamic countries.

    If you're a christian (or jew) in, for example, saudi arabia, you can expect to be tortured or worse. Yet your muslim counterpart in england endures the worst fate of a few jeers in the street.

    Additionally, what does it say about islamic countries as compared to western countries? Why are things so bad in the middle east, why are people so poor, why is there so much conflict? Why are their countries basketcases?

    They shouldn't be; they have a wealth of oil. Yet for some reason these countries are messed up: war-torn, undemocratic, dictatorships, little law enforcement, etc. What ties these countries together- how are they similar?

    They are all Islamic. Would Britain be like this, I wonder, if it was too?
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    (Original post by kriztinae)
    maybe you should move?
    I intend to. I'm getting out of this dead country as soon as I can.
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    (Original post by The Watcher)
    I'm not punishing these loosers. They're not our responsibility. They have no moral right to be here.
    But ayaan has found her way to the UK and you are now advocating throwing her out and returning her back to a civil war. There can be no doubt that you would be punishing her to send her back to these conditions.

    How do you know that she can't contribute to the UK, that all she's doing is taking the benefits?
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    (Original post by The Watcher)
    I intend to. I'm getting out of this dead country as soon as I can.
    Where are you going, and what moral right do you feel you have to live there?
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    But ayaan has found her way to the UK and you are now advocating throwing her out and returning her back to a civil war. There can be no doubt that you would be punishing her to send her back to these conditions.

    How do you know that she can't contribute to the UK, that all she's doing is taking the benefits?
    If ayaan was willing to get rid of the superstitious crap that caused the collapse of her looser country, if ayaan wanted to become a true Briton in spirit and character, then she is more than welcome to stay.

    But as she stands she should be kicked out immediately. I dont care where she goes. Let the Muslims deal with their own.
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    (Original post by milady)
    Tolerance of other religions isn't a keystone of muslim faith, or even tolerance in general. Do a google search; there's plenty of persecution in islamic countries.

    If you're a christian (or jew) in, for example, saudi arabia, you can expect to be tortured or worse. Yet your muslim counterpart in england endures the worst fate of a few jeers in the street.

    Additionally, what does it say about islamic countries as compared to western countries? Why are things so bad in the middle east, why are people so poor, why is there so much conflict? Why are their countries basketcases?

    They shouldn't be; they have a wealth of oil. Yet for some reason these countries are messed up: war-torn, undemocratic, dictatorships, little law enforcement, etc. What ties these countries together- how are they similar?

    They are all Islamic. Would Britain be like this, I wonder, if it was too?
    first of all, im an arab christian, im going to jordan today, and guess what? christians and muslims live along side each other and are friends.

    secondly, not all arab countries have oil, and it is those who dont have oil who are poor.
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    Where are you going, and what moral right do you feel you have to live there?
    I want to move to New Zealand. I have no moral right to be there. But I want to be part of that island country. I am more than prepared to swear total allegience to New Zealand, and will contribute fully to that nation. I will apply legally. If they want me, great. If not, then that's their decision as a sovereign country.
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    (Original post by The Watcher)
    If ayaan was willing to get rid of the superstitious crap that caused the collapse of her looser country, if ayaan wanted to become a true Briton in spirit and character, then she is more than welcome to stay.
    What superstitious crap was it that caused the collapse of Somalia into civil war? How can she be held remotely responsible for it? Why have you now changed your tune and say she could be more than welcome to stay where as before you said she has no moral right ot be here?
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    saudi arabia and iran have oil. and both have heavy islamic rule too. and it is not fantastic to live there either.
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    (Original post by The Watcher)
    I want to move to New Zealand. I have no moral right to be there.
    So it's acceptable for you to try and move to New Zealand just because you feel like it, and not acceptable for ayaan to try and move to the UK because her life could well be in danger. Alright.

    Why isn't it the sovereign right of Britain to grant her a passport if they choose?

    Will you consider yourself a New Zealander if successful?
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    What superstitious crap was it that caused the collapse of Somalia into civil war? How can she be held remotely responsible for it? Why have you now changed your tune and say she could be more than welcome to stay where as before you said she has no moral right ot be here?
    I'm not holding ayaan responsible for Somalia, but I am blaming her superstitious religion.

    There's no inconsistency in what I've said on this issue.

    If she does what that Somalia (or is it Ethiopian?) woman who fled to Holland and became a member of the Dutch Parliament did (ie renounce her superstition and actively want to protect the liberal democracy) then she is welcome to stay.

    But if she stays as she is she should leave now.

    Even if a person did renounce their superstition and wanted to be fully British that still doesn't give them a moral right to be here, just as I also have no moral right to live in New Zealand. It's simply at the discretion of the state.
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    So it's acceptable for you to try and move to New Zealand just because you feel like it, and not acceptable for ayaan to try and move to the UK because her life could well be in danger. Alright.
    Correct. She isn't here because she wants to be British. She's only here to gain protection from the British state (which her Qur'an actually forbids her to do - ie to seek protection from Christians).

    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    Why isn't it the sovereign right of Britain to grant her a passport if they choose?
    Of course it is the sovereign right of Britain to grant her a passport if they choose. I havn't claimed otherwise. All I have said is that British shouldn't grant citizenship to her and should kick her out of this country TODAY. Stop attributing to me positions I have never claimed!

    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    Will you consider yourself a New Zealander if successful?
    Yes.
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    (Original post by The Watcher)
    I'm not holding ayaan responsible for Somalia
    You said that you "dont want people in my country who just come over here to bleed our nation dry or simply because their own looser countries have failed". Thus you are holding ayaan responsible for the problems in Somalia.

    If she does what that Somalia (or is it Ethiopian?) woman who fled to Holland and became a member of the Dutch Parliament did (ie renounce her superstition and actively want to protect the liberal democracy) then she is welcome to stay.
    How do you know that ayaan won't actively want to protect a liberal democracy? Are all British Muslims necessarily anti-democratic?

    Even if a person did renounce their superstition and wanted to be fully British that still doesn't give them a moral right to be here, just as I also have no moral right to live in New Zealand. It's simply at the discretion of the state.
    It is at the discretion of the state, so why are you complaining about her getting given a passport? Be consistent.
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    (Original post by The Watcher)
    Correct.
    Well what can I say, it's not possible to argue a humanitarian case with someone who apparently doesn't have any compassion.

    Of course it is the sovereign right of Britain to grant her a passport if they choose. I havn't claimed otherwise. All I have said is that British shouldn't grant citizenship to her and should kick her out of this country TODAY.
    But in the end, irrespective of what your opinion may be, you agree that it's the right of the government to decide.
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    How do you know that ayaan won't actively want to protect a liberal democracy? Are all British Muslims necessarily anti-democratic?
    Read her posts.

    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    It is at the discretion of the state, so why are you complaining about her getting given a passport? Be consistent.
    There is NO inconsisteny in recognising that the British state has the ability to do something but claiming that the state shouldn'y. I have the ability to punch your face but that says nothing about whether I should or not. I can understand that I have the ability to punch your face and believe that I shouldn't - that's entirely consistent.

    DONT bother posting replies to me again.
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    There is NO inconsisteny in recognising that the British state has the ability to do something but claiming that the state shouldn't.
    Do you think the New Zealand state should have the ability to make you a citizen?

    (Original post by The Watcher)
    I have the ability to punch your face but that says nothing about whether I should or not. I can understand that I have the ability to punch your face and believe that I shouldn't - that's entirely consistent.
    No you don't. Punching me in the face would be assault, which is illegal.
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    (Original post by The Watcher)
    I intend to. I'm getting out of this dead country as soon as I can.
    Well, gaining Ayaan and losing you strikes me as a bargain.
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4740015.stm

    Inevitable I suppose, being that there are so many unable to distinguish between a normal peace loving Muslim and an extremist.

    guess u r right about this!u cant tell by name or face which of the muslims r extremists!there's one more thing.when a cristian,a hindu or a buddhist executes any act of terrorism;why dont u call him or her a cristian or hindu or buddhist terrorist??moreover,the muslims who are performing terrorism acts are violating the rules of peace put forward my ISLAM;so they might not be termed as beleiver any more!!!!!!!!!!!
 
 
 
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