how could anyone be pro-israel?
so i am not palestinian but i would define myself as pro-palestine. i feel as if i have educated myself widely enough to understand what is happening in gaza currently and what has been happening for years. i will not explain what is happening as that would stray away from why i made this discussion. the reason i made this discussion is because i've been seeing alot of celebrities or people with a wide platform staying silent to this issue or posting 'praying for israel' on their social media platforms. and i genuinely sat down on my desk and thought... 'am i missing something here?' how could someone be pro-israel, i'd like an explanation. i understand this issue has been happening for years, way before i was born, but people are using the hamas as an excuse to victimise israel. what did people expect? palestine was just going sit back, relax and allow their people to be killed and ethnically cleansed? anyways, could someone explain to me why anyone would be pro-israel?
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Original post by Anonymous
so i am not palestinian but i would define myself as pro-palestine. i feel as if i have educated myself widely enough to understand what is happening in gaza currently and what has been happening for years. i will not explain what is happening as that would stray away from why i made this discussion. the reason i made this discussion is because i've been seeing alot of celebrities or people with a wide platform staying silent to this issue or posting 'praying for israel' on their social media platforms. and i genuinely sat down on my desk and thought... 'am i missing something here?' how could someone be pro-israel, i'd like an explanation. i understand this issue has been happening for years, way before i was born, but people are using the hamas as an excuse to victimise israel. what did people expect? palestine was just going sit back, relax and allow their people to be killed and ethnically cleansed? anyways, could someone explain to me why anyone would be pro-israel?
1) Palestinians are not being ethnically cleansed. Indeed, those in Gaza have the highest fertility rate of any group in Israel.
2) Hamas is the political arm of a terrorist organization and frequently makes unprovoked attacks upon Israel and has stated that they wish to eradicate Israel.
3) Hamas is essentially a dictatorship that has not held free and fair elections since 2007 when they came to power.
4) Israel is a wealthy market democracy in a sea of theocracies and failed states.
5) Israel is much more alligned with the western world vs Hamas who are armed by Iran.
6) Israel has a fair claim to the territory
Most importantly though, it is in the UK's self interest for Israel to persevere. At least in this conflict since they are part of the western world.
Original post by Rakas21
1) Palestinians are not being ethnically cleansed. Indeed, those in Gaza have the highest fertility rate of any group in Israel.
2) Hamas is the political arm of a terrorist organization and frequently makes unprovoked attacks upon Israel and has stated that they wish to eradicate Israel.
3) Hamas is essentially a dictatorship that has not held free and fair elections since 2007 when they came to power.
4) Israel is a wealthy market democracy in a sea of theocracies and failed states.
5) Israel is much more alligned with the western world vs Hamas who are armed by Iran.
6) Israel has a fair claim to the territory
Most importantly though, it is in the UK's self interest for Israel to persevere. At least in this conflict since they are part of the western world.
2) Hamas is the political arm of a terrorist organization and frequently makes unprovoked attacks upon Israel and has stated that they wish to eradicate Israel.
3) Hamas is essentially a dictatorship that has not held free and fair elections since 2007 when they came to power.
4) Israel is a wealthy market democracy in a sea of theocracies and failed states.
5) Israel is much more alligned with the western world vs Hamas who are armed by Iran.
6) Israel has a fair claim to the territory
Most importantly though, it is in the UK's self interest for Israel to persevere. At least in this conflict since they are part of the western world.
well i think they are being ethnically cleansed, the Israeli government told the citizens of northern Gaza that they need to flee and evacuate within 24hrs to the south acting like it was for their safety, and they want to protect the Palestinians, this is impossible to do within 24 hours as the population in northern Gaza is over 1 million even if they had a week to evacuate, they still wouldn't be able to so. Israel is setting impossible tasks, not only that, but Israeli government gave them a 'safe' route to leave via, and this route is being bombed as people are leaving so no matter what they do, whether they stay in the north or leave to the south people are dying.
when Palestinians are being internally prisoned and murdered via bombings, you cannot expect them to sit back and do nothing. This is why the Hamas was created.
does israel have a fair claim to territory? i think you should double check that
Thank you for responding though, but after speaking to you, my main concern is how the media is brainwashing people - why is jews being killed so much worse than a Palestinian being killed? they are both as bad as each other. The media is fabricating this news by showing that Palestinians are barbaric and violent when they are, in fact, just responding. And example of this is whenever there is something of a war like happening in the Middle East the media never covers it, but as soon as it happens with a white country, a European country like Ukraine is the only thing you will see on the BBC. the media favours the west and you cannot deny this.
Whether you're a Jew, a Muslim, a Palestinian or an Israeli, this is a humanity issue - more than half of the Palestinian population are children. Children are dying every day, babies are dying every day. this is why you see tradiitonal jews attending palestinian protests because they understand the deaths of innocent civillians and children are wrong.
Original post by Anonymous
well i think they are being ethnically cleansed, the Israeli government told the citizens of northern Gaza that they need to flee and evacuate within 24hrs to the south acting like it was for their safety, and they want to protect the Palestinians, this is impossible to do within 24 hours as the population in northern Gaza is over 1 million even if they had a week to evacuate, they still wouldn't be able to so. Israel is setting impossible tasks, not only that, but Israeli government gave them a 'safe' route to leave via, and this route is being bombed as people are leaving so no matter what they do, whether they stay in the north or leave to the south people are dying.
when Palestinians are being internally prisoned and murdered via bombings, you cannot expect them to sit back and do nothing. This is why the Hamas was created.
does israel have a fair claim to territory? i think you should double check that
Thank you for responding though, but after speaking to you, my main concern is how the media is brainwashing people - why is jews being killed so much worse than a Palestinian being killed? they are both as bad as each other. The media is fabricating this news by showing that Palestinians are barbaric and violent when they are, in fact, just responding. And example of this is whenever there is something of a war like happening in the Middle East the media never covers it, but as soon as it happens with a white country, a European country like Ukraine is the only thing you will see on the BBC. the media favours the west and you cannot deny this.
Whether you're a Jew, a Muslim, a Palestinian or an Israeli, this is a humanity issue - more than half of the Palestinian population are children. Children are dying every day, babies are dying every day. this is why you see tradiitonal jews attending palestinian protests because they understand the deaths of innocent civillians and children are wrong.
when Palestinians are being internally prisoned and murdered via bombings, you cannot expect them to sit back and do nothing. This is why the Hamas was created.
does israel have a fair claim to territory? i think you should double check that
Thank you for responding though, but after speaking to you, my main concern is how the media is brainwashing people - why is jews being killed so much worse than a Palestinian being killed? they are both as bad as each other. The media is fabricating this news by showing that Palestinians are barbaric and violent when they are, in fact, just responding. And example of this is whenever there is something of a war like happening in the Middle East the media never covers it, but as soon as it happens with a white country, a European country like Ukraine is the only thing you will see on the BBC. the media favours the west and you cannot deny this.
Whether you're a Jew, a Muslim, a Palestinian or an Israeli, this is a humanity issue - more than half of the Palestinian population are children. Children are dying every day, babies are dying every day. this is why you see tradiitonal jews attending palestinian protests because they understand the deaths of innocent civillians and children are wrong.
Your first point really comes down to whether you believe a just war can be carried out, whether military action is justified at any point. Consider that when Hamas slaughtered the Israeli's at the concert, it was the equivelent of the French going to Wembley and doing the same. It was state sanctioned and as such, a military response from Israel is occupied.
To use the old addage, if you are not prepared to lose a fight, don't start one. Those in Gaza can't whine like a female dog about Israel's response when they are the ones who start the fight.
The media undoubtadly favours the west (though the BBC gives a lot of airtime to Hamas supporters) but that's not really a shock or even a bad thing. The UK is part of a western world order with no real evidence that we will see any meaninful political change in this arena anytime soon.
Your later statemement is a fair one but brings me back to my initial point. For how long can Israel turn the other cheek. For me, it's reponse is justified and despite what people would like, war is not a clean affair. To win, moral sacrifices are nessesary.
Original post by Anonymous
well i think they are being ethnically cleansed, the Israeli government told the citizens of northern Gaza that they need to flee and evacuate within 24hrs to the south acting like it was for their safety, and they want to protect the Palestinians, this is impossible to do within 24 hours as the population in northern Gaza is over 1 million even if they had a week to evacuate, they still wouldn't be able to so. Israel is setting impossible tasks, not only that, but Israeli government gave them a 'safe' route to leave via, and this route is being bombed as people are leaving so no matter what they do, whether they stay in the north or leave to the south people are dying.
when Palestinians are being internally prisoned and murdered via bombings, you cannot expect them to sit back and do nothing. This is why the Hamas was created.
does israel have a fair claim to territory? i think you should double check that
Thank you for responding though, but after speaking to you, my main concern is how the media is brainwashing people - why is jews being killed so much worse than a Palestinian being killed? they are both as bad as each other. The media is fabricating this news by showing that Palestinians are barbaric and violent when they are, in fact, just responding. And example of this is whenever there is something of a war like happening in the Middle East the media never covers it, but as soon as it happens with a white country, a European country like Ukraine is the only thing you will see on the BBC. the media favours the west and you cannot deny this.
Whether you're a Jew, a Muslim, a Palestinian or an Israeli, this is a humanity issue - more than half of the Palestinian population are children. Children are dying every day, babies are dying every day. this is why you see tradiitonal jews attending palestinian protests because they understand the deaths of innocent civillians and children are wrong.
when Palestinians are being internally prisoned and murdered via bombings, you cannot expect them to sit back and do nothing. This is why the Hamas was created.
does israel have a fair claim to territory? i think you should double check that
Thank you for responding though, but after speaking to you, my main concern is how the media is brainwashing people - why is jews being killed so much worse than a Palestinian being killed? they are both as bad as each other. The media is fabricating this news by showing that Palestinians are barbaric and violent when they are, in fact, just responding. And example of this is whenever there is something of a war like happening in the Middle East the media never covers it, but as soon as it happens with a white country, a European country like Ukraine is the only thing you will see on the BBC. the media favours the west and you cannot deny this.
Whether you're a Jew, a Muslim, a Palestinian or an Israeli, this is a humanity issue - more than half of the Palestinian population are children. Children are dying every day, babies are dying every day. this is why you see tradiitonal jews attending palestinian protests because they understand the deaths of innocent civillians and children are wrong.
Your first point really comes down to whether you believe a just war can be carried out, whether military action is justified at any point. Consider that when Hamas slaughtered the Israeli's at the concert, it was the equivelent of the French going to Wembley and doing the same. It was state sanctioned and as such, a military response from Israel is justifiable.
To use the old addage, if you are not prepared to lose a fight, don't start one. Those in Gaza can't whine like a female dog about Israel's response when they are the ones who start the fight.
The media undoubtadly favours the west (though the BBC gives a lot of airtime to Hamas supporters) but that's not really a shock or even a bad thing. The UK is part of a western world order with no real evidence that we will see any meaninful political change in this arena anytime soon.
Your later statemement is a fair one but brings me back to my initial point. For how long can Israel turn the other cheek. For me, it's reponse is justified and despite what people would like, war is not a clean affair. To win, moral sacrifices are nessesary.
Israel does have a fair claim to the territory unless one believes that historical claims should start only under the occupation of the Caliphates and not Rome or before. Ultimately, both Muslims and Jews have a fair and fairly ancient claim to the region but Israel exists, it exists legally as recognised by the UN in 1948. Everything after, is quibling around the edges.
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by Rakas21
1) Palestinians are not being ethnically cleansed. Indeed, those in Gaza have the highest fertility rate of any group in Israel.
2) Hamas is the political arm of a terrorist organization and frequently makes unprovoked attacks upon Israel and has stated that they wish to eradicate Israel.
3) Hamas is essentially a dictatorship that has not held free and fair elections since 2007 when they came to power.
4) Israel is a wealthy market democracy in a sea of theocracies and failed states.
5) Israel is much more alligned with the western world vs Hamas who are armed by Iran.
6) Israel has a fair claim to the territory
Most importantly though, it is in the UK's self interest for Israel to persevere. At least in this conflict since they are part of the western world.
2) Hamas is the political arm of a terrorist organization and frequently makes unprovoked attacks upon Israel and has stated that they wish to eradicate Israel.
3) Hamas is essentially a dictatorship that has not held free and fair elections since 2007 when they came to power.
4) Israel is a wealthy market democracy in a sea of theocracies and failed states.
5) Israel is much more alligned with the western world vs Hamas who are armed by Iran.
6) Israel has a fair claim to the territory
Most importantly though, it is in the UK's self interest for Israel to persevere. At least in this conflict since they are part of the western world.
1. Palestians have been ethnically cleansed in the past. The current far right Israeli government are also effectively cleasning with their methods of cutting of electricity and power. Their aim is not to get rid of Hamas(Who are the main problem) but is instead getting rid of the entire population. not all palesitians are in favour of Hamas.
6. I disagree with this, a split was partinioned and Israel has continuted to build settlements in areas that aren't their own.
Its worth noting that while Hamas has a view to destroy Israel this is not representative of the entire Palestinian poulation. The israelli government on the otherhand do have view to eradicate the state of palestine.
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by Anonymous
I’m pro-Israel. Don’t get me wrong, they’ve committed atrocities but so have Hamas and the Palestinians. Muslims have tonnes of majority countries in the world and Jews only have one: Israel. So they deserve to keep it. And also Hamas is an unspeakably vile terrorist group so I wouldn’t want the destruction of Israel and another backwards and violent Muslim country in the world if I’m being completely blunt with you. That said, I’m not in favour or erasing Palestine either, there needs to be some sort of compromise where both Israelis and Palestinians have a state or area of their own in peace. But getting rid of Israel isn’t an option, isn’t going to happen and I’m totally against that. Hamas shouldn’t have attacked Israel if they can’t take the inevitable retaliation and Hamas are still telling Palestinians to stay in northern Gaza when it’s about to be flattened!
because jews only have one country they are allowed to mass murder innocent civillians? is that what your saying?
listen, palestine welcomed the jews when they had no where else to go, now look at how the jews are repaying them.
this is a genocide whether you like it or not, this isn't about being pro-israel or pro-palestine its being pro-humanity and recognising how many innocent children are being killed. you are a product of brainwashing.
Original post by Anonymous
so i am not palestinian but i would define myself as pro-palestine. i feel as if i have educated myself widely enough to understand what is happening in gaza currently and what has been happening for years. i will not explain what is happening as that would stray away from why i made this discussion. the reason i made this discussion is because i've been seeing alot of celebrities or people with a wide platform staying silent to this issue or posting 'praying for israel' on their social media platforms. and i genuinely sat down on my desk and thought... 'am i missing something here?' how could someone be pro-israel, i'd like an explanation. i understand this issue has been happening for years, way before i was born, but people are using the hamas as an excuse to victimise israel. what did people expect? palestine was just going sit back, relax and allow their people to be killed and ethnically cleansed? anyways, could someone explain to me why anyone would be pro-israel?
Being Israeli or of Israeli descent?
Two major reasons:
1) Islamophobia and general anti-arab racism
2) evangelical Christianity in the USA. They believe that a Jewish state needs to be in the Levant to bring about the second coming of Christ and thus the rapture
1) Islamophobia and general anti-arab racism
2) evangelical Christianity in the USA. They believe that a Jewish state needs to be in the Levant to bring about the second coming of Christ and thus the rapture
Original post by Anonymous
so i am not palestinian but i would define myself as pro-palestine. i feel as if i have educated myself widely enough to understand what is happening in gaza currently and what has been happening for years. i will not explain what is happening as that would stray away from why i made this discussion. the reason i made this discussion is because i've been seeing alot of celebrities or people with a wide platform staying silent to this issue or posting 'praying for israel' on their social media platforms. and i genuinely sat down on my desk and thought... 'am i missing something here?' how could someone be pro-israel, i'd like an explanation. i understand this issue has been happening for years, way before i was born, but people are using the hamas as an excuse to victimise israel. what did people expect? palestine was just going sit back, relax and allow their people to be killed and ethnically cleansed? anyways, could someone explain to me why anyone would be pro-israel?
Because I am not anti-semitic
Original post by lee_miller7
Because I am not anti-semitic
It's actually pretty damn antisemitic to conflate the government of Israel with Jewish people as a whole
Original post by Anonymous
so i am not palestinian but i would define myself as pro-palestine. i feel as if i have educated myself widely enough to understand what is happening in gaza currently and what has been happening for years. i will not explain what is happening as that would stray away from why i made this discussion. the reason i made this discussion is because i've been seeing alot of celebrities or people with a wide platform staying silent to this issue or posting 'praying for israel' on their social media platforms. and i genuinely sat down on my desk and thought... 'am i missing something here?' how could someone be pro-israel, i'd like an explanation. i understand this issue has been happening for years, way before i was born, but people are using the hamas as an excuse to victimise israel. what did people expect? palestine was just going sit back, relax and allow their people to be killed and ethnically cleansed? anyways, could someone explain to me why anyone would be pro-israel?
Well, i imagine jews and Israelis could quite easily be pro israel couldn't they? Not to mention Christians and their weird relationship with Zionism.
You speak of Palestine like it is a singal entity as opposed to a fractured truncated statelet made up of rather different people with different wants, hopes and desires. The westbank is not the same as Gaza and Hamas is not the same as Fatah, as but a basic example. To say 'Palestine was going to sit back' is woefully reductionist in ones book. There being a rather large gulf between what the average Gazan wants and what Hamas wants.
I wont go into why people would be pro-israel, they can justify their own queer beliefs. However, to oversimplify topics to such an extent does them a great, great disservice. Half the reason that place is thought of in such messy terms is people trying to boil it down to moronically basic concepts like 'they stole our land' or 'they just want to kill jews'.
No, the people of Palkestine should absolutely not sit back and ideally let their people and culture be raped and murdered by Zionist occupiers but shooting up a festival is hardly going to help their cause, as Gaza is unfortunately finding out as we speak. To speak of 'Palestine' committing this atrocity is grossly wide of the mark. Hamas might rule Gaza but they certainly aren't particularly popular there, a popular group wouldn't need to fight a bloody civil war or reign by terror to stay in power. So when there is a war between Palestine and Israel, this particular one started by Hamas whom exactly are you 'supporting'?
Original post by Rakas21
Your first point really comes down to whether you believe a just war can be carried out, whether military action is justified at any point. Consider that when Hamas slaughtered the Israeli's at the concert, it was the equivelent of the French going to Wembley and doing the same. It was state sanctioned and as such, a military response from Israel is justifiable.
To use the old addage, if you are not prepared to lose a fight, don't start one. Those in Gaza can't whine like a female dog about Israel's response when they are the ones who start the fight.
The media undoubtadly favours the west (though the BBC gives a lot of airtime to Hamas supporters) but that's not really a shock or even a bad thing. The UK is part of a western world order with no real evidence that we will see any meaninful political change in this arena anytime soon.
Your later statemement is a fair one but brings me back to my initial point. For how long can Israel turn the other cheek. For me, it's reponse is justified and despite what people would like, war is not a clean affair. To win, moral sacrifices are nessesary.
Israel does have a fair claim to the territory unless one believes that historical claims should start only under the occupation of the Caliphates and not Rome or before. Ultimately, both Muslims and Jews have a fair and fairly ancient claim to the region but Israel exists, it exists legally as recognised by the UN in 1948. Everything after, is quibling around the edges.
To use the old addage, if you are not prepared to lose a fight, don't start one. Those in Gaza can't whine like a female dog about Israel's response when they are the ones who start the fight.
The media undoubtadly favours the west (though the BBC gives a lot of airtime to Hamas supporters) but that's not really a shock or even a bad thing. The UK is part of a western world order with no real evidence that we will see any meaninful political change in this arena anytime soon.
Your later statemement is a fair one but brings me back to my initial point. For how long can Israel turn the other cheek. For me, it's reponse is justified and despite what people would like, war is not a clean affair. To win, moral sacrifices are nessesary.
Israel does have a fair claim to the territory unless one believes that historical claims should start only under the occupation of the Caliphates and not Rome or before. Ultimately, both Muslims and Jews have a fair and fairly ancient claim to the region but Israel exists, it exists legally as recognised by the UN in 1948. Everything after, is quibling around the edges.
Gaza is home to millions of people, how did said millions 'start' this fight? Just as all white Christians are not terrorists because some gunman decided to evoke our culture all Gazans are clearly not terrorists hell bent of destroying Israel.
Just on the last bit, in what way is it a fair claim? A foreign power divided the country and gave it to illegal immigrants. That is quite literally how Israel started after all. At the end of the day, the land is by right Arab, they were there until we allowed the illegal importation of migrants who started this whole thing. The argument on 'safe home for the jews' would hold slightly more weight if it were in Germany, after all, why should Arabs pay for their sins? At the end of the day, this argyument always boils down to one phrase, 'Israel has a right to exist', the only issue is no one has ever actually provided a decent reason (aside from not permitting them to be driven into the sea) as to why Israel has a right to exist, or at least there. Anicent history not being any sort of a claim on modern land after all, lest we be a province of Rome.
As to the UN, we all know that their say on the matter is beneath contempt for all parties.
Original post by Anonymous
I’m pro-Israel. Don’t get me wrong, they’ve committed atrocities but so have Hamas and the Palestinians. Muslims have tonnes of majority countries in the world and Jews only have one: Israel. So they deserve to keep it. And also Hamas is an unspeakably vile terrorist group so I wouldn’t want the destruction of Israel and another backwards and violent Muslim country in the world if I’m being completely blunt with you. That said, I’m not in favour or erasing Palestine either, there needs to be some sort of compromise where both Israelis and Palestinians have a state or area of their own in peace. But getting rid of Israel isn’t an option, isn’t going to happen and I’m totally against that. Hamas shouldn’t have attacked Israel if they can’t take the inevitable retaliation and Hamas are still telling Palestinians to stay in northern Gaza when it’s about to be flattened!
Supporting an apartheid state simply because there arent any others of that particular variety is hardly a good reason. So what if Israel is the only jewish country? What possible bearing does that have on the fact the land was stolen and the rightful owners have been reduced to a broken diaspora?
As to the rest of this nonsense, comparing a group that lobs some rockets with the carpet bombing of a city is unspeakably ridiculous.
As to the last, Israel is telling them to go south and then promptly bombs the convoys and the area they displaced them to. How is that better than staying in your home?
At the end of the day, if by no other reason than numbers, Israel is still the bad guy. A country founded on stolen land and with a self avowed fascist government hardly deserves anything. Not least when the only reasons they can give are 'because' and 'were a so called democracy', neither of these are good reasons.
This is interesting. Now Im not claiming any side on this (yet). But I found a debate site that has this topic on it. I wanted to see what others respond to this.
One debator shared following.
I tried cleaning this up but tsr has stopped working several times, asking for me to clarify if I am human. Maybe I have been hackesed. I dont know.
Let me know what you all think. Especially thread starter. @hotpud
One debator shared following.
Spoiler
I tried cleaning this up but tsr has stopped working several times, asking for me to clarify if I am human. Maybe I have been hackesed. I dont know.
Let me know what you all think. Especially thread starter. @hotpud
(edited 5 months ago)
Original post by Napp
Supporting an apartheid state simply because there arent any others of that particular variety is hardly a good reason. So what if Israel is the only jewish country? What possible bearing does that have on the fact the land was stolen and the rightful owners have been reduced to a broken diaspora?
As to the rest of this nonsense, comparing a group that lobs some rockets with the carpet bombing of a city is unspeakably ridiculous.
As to the last, Israel is telling them to go south and then promptly bombs the convoys and the area they displaced them to. How is that better than staying in your home?
At the end of the day, if by no other reason than numbers, Israel is still the bad guy. A country founded on stolen land and with a self avowed fascist government hardly deserves anything. Not least when the only reasons they can give are 'because' and 'were a so called democracy', neither of these are good reasons.
As to the rest of this nonsense, comparing a group that lobs some rockets with the carpet bombing of a city is unspeakably ridiculous.
As to the last, Israel is telling them to go south and then promptly bombs the convoys and the area they displaced them to. How is that better than staying in your home?
At the end of the day, if by no other reason than numbers, Israel is still the bad guy. A country founded on stolen land and with a self avowed fascist government hardly deserves anything. Not least when the only reasons they can give are 'because' and 'were a so called democracy', neither of these are good reasons.
What proof do we have that isreal bombed that route? We just know they got bombed.
Original post by username5868172
because jews only have one country they are allowed to mass murder innocent civillians? is that what your saying?
listen, palestine welcomed the jews when they had no where else to go, now look at how the jews are repaying them.
this is a genocide whether you like it or not, this isn't about being pro-israel or pro-palestine its being pro-humanity and recognising how many innocent children are being killed. you are a product of brainwashing.
listen, palestine welcomed the jews when they had no where else to go, now look at how the jews are repaying them.
this is a genocide whether you like it or not, this isn't about being pro-israel or pro-palestine its being pro-humanity and recognising how many innocent children are being killed. you are a product of brainwashing.
Who welcomed who and what evidence do we have to support it?
Original post by Napp
Gaza is home to millions of people, how did said millions 'start' this fight? Just as all white Christians are not terrorists because some gunman decided to evoke our culture all Gazans are clearly not terrorists hell bent of destroying Israel.
Just on the last bit, in what way is it a fair claim? A foreign power divided the country and gave it to illegal immigrants. That is quite literally how Israel started after all. At the end of the day, the land is by right Arab, they were there until we allowed the illegal importation of migrants who started this whole thing. The argument on 'safe home for the jews' would hold slightly more weight if it were in Germany, after all, why should Arabs pay for their sins? At the end of the day, this argyument always boils down to one phrase, 'Israel has a right to exist', the only issue is no one has ever actually provided a decent reason (aside from not permitting them to be driven into the sea) as to why Israel has a right to exist, or at least there. Anicent history not being any sort of a claim on modern land after all, lest we be a province of Rome.
As to the UN, we all know that their say on the matter is beneath contempt for all parties.
Just on the last bit, in what way is it a fair claim? A foreign power divided the country and gave it to illegal immigrants. That is quite literally how Israel started after all. At the end of the day, the land is by right Arab, they were there until we allowed the illegal importation of migrants who started this whole thing. The argument on 'safe home for the jews' would hold slightly more weight if it were in Germany, after all, why should Arabs pay for their sins? At the end of the day, this argyument always boils down to one phrase, 'Israel has a right to exist', the only issue is no one has ever actually provided a decent reason (aside from not permitting them to be driven into the sea) as to why Israel has a right to exist, or at least there. Anicent history not being any sort of a claim on modern land after all, lest we be a province of Rome.
As to the UN, we all know that their say on the matter is beneath contempt for all parties.
You say that the land by right is Arab but that in itself contradicts your own logic. Why is the claim of the Arabs legitimate (beginning around ~642AD but most recently under the Ottoman Empire from ~1500AD) but not the British after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire. If the Arabs have the right to impose their religion and population upon the formerly Roman/East Roman region then why not the British. They both won the region in exactly the same way, annexing it in war from a former power.
I'm not trying to dismiss the right of Palestinians to live somewhere i might add, i'm simply pointing out that Israel exists for the same reason that Palestine existed. Much like the Turkish and Greek claims to Cyprus, it's extremely difficult to untangle the two on a historical basis.
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by Rakas21
Your first point really comes down to whether you believe a just war can be carried out, whether military action is justified at any point. Consider that when Hamas slaughtered the Israeli's at the concert, it was the equivelent of the French going to Wembley and doing the same. It was state sanctioned and as such, a military response from Israel is justifiable.
To use the old addage, if you are not prepared to lose a fight, don't start one. Those in Gaza can't whine like a female dog about Israel's response when they are the ones who start the fight.
The media undoubtadly favours the west (though the BBC gives a lot of airtime to Hamas supporters) but that's not really a shock or even a bad thing. The UK is part of a western world order with no real evidence that we will see any meaninful political change in this arena anytime soon.
Your later statemement is a fair one but brings me back to my initial point. For how long can Israel turn the other cheek. For me, it's reponse is justified and despite what people would like, war is not a clean affair. To win, moral sacrifices are nessesary.
Israel does have a fair claim to the territory unless one believes that historical claims should start only under the occupation of the Caliphates and not Rome or before. Ultimately, both Muslims and Jews have a fair and fairly ancient claim to the region but Israel exists, it exists legally as recognised by the UN in 1948. Everything after, is quibling around the edges.
To use the old addage, if you are not prepared to lose a fight, don't start one. Those in Gaza can't whine like a female dog about Israel's response when they are the ones who start the fight.
The media undoubtadly favours the west (though the BBC gives a lot of airtime to Hamas supporters) but that's not really a shock or even a bad thing. The UK is part of a western world order with no real evidence that we will see any meaninful political change in this arena anytime soon.
Your later statemement is a fair one but brings me back to my initial point. For how long can Israel turn the other cheek. For me, it's reponse is justified and despite what people would like, war is not a clean affair. To win, moral sacrifices are nessesary.
Israel does have a fair claim to the territory unless one believes that historical claims should start only under the occupation of the Caliphates and not Rome or before. Ultimately, both Muslims and Jews have a fair and fairly ancient claim to the region but Israel exists, it exists legally as recognised by the UN in 1948. Everything after, is quibling around the edges.
This comment effectively is screaming that all of the Palestinians are in favour of Hams when this is far from the truth. Regardless of if a war is commited, you cant' justify the use of war crimes and the banning of basic supplies such as food and water which is killing much more innocent people. At the end of the day, more innocent palestinians have been murdered than the Israelis throughout the war, its not really a moral sacrifice but just basic human empathy really.
With regards to having a fair claim- This I agree but they do not have fair claim to territory that was given to palestinians. I'm talking post 1945, forget about the ones before. But a clear divide was made and in the end te Israelis disobeyed from that divide. Thats just facts.
(edited 6 months ago)
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