How hard is it to get a 2:1?

Well put it this way. It's easier to get a 2:1 in a lower ranked university than a higher ranked one. And even within the Russel group it's easier to get a 2:1 in somewhere like UCL say, than somewhere like oxford or cambridge, because their programs are harder.

So in summary: how hard it is depends on where you study.

Also I find it really funny that people get offended when someone says a science degree is harder or whatever-who cares?

As long as you get a good grade, enjoy yourself at university and get a good job. Thats all that really matters.

You guys need to stop being so touchy

I like how you talk as if what you've said is correct and you've actually experianced "programs" from multiple unis to back up your claims

but I did, why else would i make such a claim? I went to 3 different russel group unis and tried 4 different courses. Spent 5 years getting a BSc degree. And it was never my attempt to sound correct but merely put forth my personal experiences and beliefs

Now I know that, your claim has credibility. Still though, don't accredited courses have similar content, regardless of whether they're Russel Group or not? I can graduate with an Meng from my uni (Plymouth) with a 1st and still qualify for Chartership status and a chance at securing all the best Civil Engineering jobs, alongside Imperial and Oxford graduates. (As a side note, last year 10% got a 1st, 35% got a 2:1 on my course. I've no idea on stats for the two other afformentioned unis).

Seeing as that's the case, would you say your claim is most likely limited to your discipline or my course is unusual in matching higher ranked unis for course content?

That's because on TSR some muppets make out as though the Arts students don't have to put in any work at all and uni is a cake walk.

Plus, it is debatable as to which is hard because sciency subjects have absolute answers (right?) so it is possible to get a 100%, whereas Arts subjects its a bit more difficult because of the interpretation.

Both types require a lot of work, I just think it's daft that people constantly say oh my degree is harder blah blah blah, at the end of the day, no degree is just handed out to you, we all have to put alot of effort in.

I can't be arsed to find statistics, but having had this discussion many times before (including with university staff) I am fairly confident stats would back up the following assertion:

Arts and social science degree grades heavily cluster around a 2:1, whilst math and science degree grades have a considerably more even spread across the range 1st to 3rd.

With an arts degree getting a 1st requires seriously hard work, but as long as you can write coherently and reference your essays then getting a 2:1 is relatively easy. I probably averaged less than 20 hours work a week to get a 2:1, and this was not at all uncommon. To get a 1st you have to work more like twice that, and so generally people just don't bother - I seem to remember only 2 or 3 people in my year got a 1st. You have 2 lectures a week, if you even bother going to those, so getting a 1st requires dozens of hours a week spent studying books in the library. Outside of those with serious ambitions to get a top-flight career or go into academia, there is no motivation to do so - you're better off either getting relevant extra-curricular experience, or just enjoying yourself.

In the sciences there is no shortage of people with a natural aptitude who find large chunks of their course easy, and given the courses are lecture intensive, and people are under close supervision to hand in problem sheets and complete experiments, those who do have the aptitude are generally pushed to get a 1st. Then there are also plenty of people who get to university and find advanced level maths or physics is beyond them, or otherwise just really dislike their subject and don't make the effort to keep up with the workload, and struggle to achieve a 2:2 or a 3rd.

no idea about whether it's just my course but maths in oxford was harder than the maths program at ucl. there is more content at oxford and they teach u in a shorter time. For example i've compared stuff i did with kings college maths people and stuff i did in my first year at ox people at kings did in their 3rd year. So the degree at oxford was harder. Also think of it this way: Why would it be harder to get into oxford than ucl or kings college? If they all had the same programs, i donno about u, but i'd go for the lowest ranked uni to be around more normal people and do it over a longer period of time.

Not got nothing against your degree, and i personally wish i'd gone to a normal uni like plymouth cos i made almost no friends in ucl cos it was full of posh people. I had class issues.

Now I know that, your claim has credibility. Still though, don't accredited courses have similar content, regardless of whether they're Russel Group or not? I can graduate with an Meng from my uni (Plymouth) with a 1st and still qualify for Chartership status and a chance at securing all the best Civil Engineering jobs, alongside Imperial and Oxford graduates. (As a side note, last year 10% got a 1st, 35% got a 2:1 on my course. I've no idea on stats for the two other afformentioned unis).

Seeing as that's the case, would you say your claim is most likely limited to your discipline or my course is unusual in matching higher ranked unis for course content?

Actually that brings up another question-how many hours per week would you guys perceive as a lot of work?

I'm sorry to hear about your experiance. At least you got to make up for it by going travelling afterwards

You made a good point about the class thing. Plymouth isn't posh, but as I came from SE London, a lot of people here appear really middle class.....which I can tolerate. I'd go mad if I was surrounded by toffs. I can't stand them! I always said if I got a chance to go to Oxbridge, I wouldn't as I'd hate the overall experiance.

I can believe what you're saying there. Doesn't Oxford only do (undergraduate) Master degrees though? There's a huge difference between the first year of BSc and first year Meng here too........

I can't be arsed to find statistics, but having had this discussion many times before (including with university staff) I am fairly confident stats would back up the following assertion:

Arts and social science degree grades heavily cluster around a 2:1, whilst math and science degree grades have a considerably more even spread across the range 1st to 3rd.

With an arts degree getting a 1st requires seriously hard work, but as long as you can write coherently and reference your essays then getting a 2:1 is relatively easy. I probably averaged less than 20 hours work a week to get a 2:1, and this was not at all uncommon. To get a 1st you have to work more like twice that, and so generally people just don't bother - I seem to remember only 2 or 3 people in my year got a 1st. You have 2 lectures a week, if you even bother going to those, so getting a 1st requires dozens of hours a week spent studying books in the library. Outside of those with serious ambitions to get a top-flight career or go into academia, there is no motivation to do so - you're better off either getting relevant extra-curricular experience, or just enjoying yourself.

In the sciences there is no shortage of people with a natural aptitude who find large chunks of their course easy, and given the courses are lecture intensive, and people are under close supervision to hand in problem sheets and complete experiments, those who do have the aptitude are generally pushed to get a 1st. Then there are also plenty of people who get to university and find advanced level maths or physics is beyond them, or otherwise just really dislike their subject and don't make the effort to keep up with the workload, and struggle to achieve a 2:2 or a 3rd.

I live next to a mathematician.

oops, accidently negged u when i was quoting this (sorry). Anyhow, i hate toffs too. Oxford was full of em, as was ucl (but ucl to a lesser extent). I met one normal guy who was on my course at ucl and like me he was from the slums of NW london and we both commuted daily cos we were poor and he kept me sane like. If it wasn't for him i'd like have probably dropped out a 3rd time. No idea bout ox and whether they do undergrad masters (no idea wtf that is tbh!)

When do you graduate? Much luck with jobs? No luck at my end. Degrees r useless.

Haha, don't worry about it! I'm not suprised to hear that. Oxford has one of the lowest state school intakes in the country.
Undergraduate masters would be a Masters as opposed to a Bachelors of Arts or Science. I just had a quick gander at the site and you were either doing the BA or the Masters which would of been a lot more complex than the BSc.

I'm in the first year of BSc after doing foundation year (my A-Level subjects weren't Engineering related) so I won't be looking for another job for a while. I'm already at Premier Inn. If I get butt****ed by the jobs market at graduation, I'll stay where I am.

I'm suprised you're finding it tough to get employed with your degree though. You got a good classification and subject, so it must just be done to competition. What kind of jobs have you been looking for?

Well put it this way. It's easier to get a 2:1 in a lower ranked university than a higher ranked one. And even within the Russel group it's easier to get a 2:1 in somewhere like UCL say, than somewhere like oxford or cambridge, because their programs are harder.

So in summary: how hard it is depends on where you study.