Nato helicopters kill Pakistan checkpoint soldiers
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Original post by The_Male_Melons
Say whaaaaaaaaa?
I don't think there has ever been a religious party that was ever elected in Pakistan. I don't believe they are going to be in power.
Yes, there is anti-American feeling - does not equate religious party sweeping the country in elections.
Only a moron can equate anti-american feeling=religious party on the rise
Nice to know you ignored the rest of my message.
I don't think there has ever been a religious party that was ever elected in Pakistan. I don't believe they are going to be in power.
Yes, there is anti-American feeling - does not equate religious party sweeping the country in elections.
Only a moron can equate anti-american feeling=religious party on the rise
Nice to know you ignored the rest of my message.
I ignored it because I can understand where you're coming from. Pakistanis have a shared mutual interest with China, therefore it doesn't necessarily mean they become China's bitch completely. But the question for me is why would they want to ally with China in the first place?
I never equated anti-Americanism with religious parties, just would Pakistanis like that. You said they wouldn't and that there was a higher chance of it becoming true in the USA. I asked if you have any evidence of this in terms of polls comparing the religiosity of USA citizens to Pakistani citizens.
Past couple of years Anti American feeling has been growing. Partly because of the terrorist attacks but this will only fuel the fire.
America cannot afford another war, but ever since May 2 its almost like they are provoking Pakistan.
America cannot afford another war, but ever since May 2 its almost like they are provoking Pakistan.
unbelievable, why on Earth would Pakistan consider supplying Nato.
I think people don't realise that the majority of internal conflicts within Pakistan have more to do with race than religion. Sindhis, Balochis, Punjabis, Pahtans all generally fight with each other and are far more interested in a state that their sect/tribe/race control than an islamic state.
I go to Karachi quite often and people aren't talking about religion, most people don't care for rigid religiosity though there is a section of society that does, what everyone is talking about is conflicts with pahtans and Balochis. People vote for their leaders based on, not for how Islamic they are but what race of people they are. There is still a great conflict between the mahajars (people who came over from India at the time of the partition) and the people who have been there before.
People also forget that Pakistan is only 65 years old, I don't believe it has settled into itself yet. Many people in the north still don't recognise the existence of Pakistani borders, the Pashtuns in the north happily cross the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan hassle free.
I think the religious issue totally over shadows the real issue of sect and race, its this issue that destabilises and polarises the country more than anything else.
I think people don't realise that the majority of internal conflicts within Pakistan have more to do with race than religion. Sindhis, Balochis, Punjabis, Pahtans all generally fight with each other and are far more interested in a state that their sect/tribe/race control than an islamic state.
I go to Karachi quite often and people aren't talking about religion, most people don't care for rigid religiosity though there is a section of society that does, what everyone is talking about is conflicts with pahtans and Balochis. People vote for their leaders based on, not for how Islamic they are but what race of people they are. There is still a great conflict between the mahajars (people who came over from India at the time of the partition) and the people who have been there before.
People also forget that Pakistan is only 65 years old, I don't believe it has settled into itself yet. Many people in the north still don't recognise the existence of Pakistani borders, the Pashtuns in the north happily cross the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan hassle free.
I think the religious issue totally over shadows the real issue of sect and race, its this issue that destabilises and polarises the country more than anything else.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Florrick
I ignored it because I can understand where you're coming from. Pakistanis have a shared mutual interest with China, therefore it doesn't necessarily mean they become China's bitch completely. But the question for me is why would they want to ally with China in the first place?
I never equated anti-Americanism with religious parties, just would Pakistanis like that. You said they wouldn't and that there was a higher chance of it becoming true in the USA. I asked if you have any evidence of this in terms of polls comparing the religiosity of USA citizens to Pakistani citizens.
I never equated anti-Americanism with religious parties, just would Pakistanis like that. You said they wouldn't and that there was a higher chance of it becoming true in the USA. I asked if you have any evidence of this in terms of polls comparing the religiosity of USA citizens to Pakistani citizens.
1. Every country in the world has some sort of friendship with China. What makes Pakistan unique? Why is Pakistan's relationship with China so different?
2. Yes, you did. You implied it indirectly. Re-read what you said. You suggested that some religious party will sweep into power in Pakistan? Where is the evidence? Where is proof?
Yes, Pakistan rates high up on the corruption ladder and there have been accusations of electoral fraud.
That does not necessarily mean, religious parties were at a disadvantage. If they were so popular and they were the favorites, one would assume the media of Pakistan would jump on this.
I don't believe Pakistani religious parties are popular. You seem to think the opposite. Where is the evidence that religious parties will sweep into power?
3. I said that there was a more of a chance of a religious nutcase being elected in America than Pakistan. It was tongue in cheek comment. It is hardly surprising when it comes to election time, religion is a focal point in the US. Even Bush had a dream that God conveyed to him a message.
I yet to hear Pakistani leader make that comment.
3. Pakistan suffers more from the parallel cultures that is in existence. It is a country split between tribes, ethnicity and culture. Such a shame that a country with so much potential is split on silly issues based on race....
An interwiew from Sky News, Jeremy Thompson, with Fatima Bhutto highlights this, it showcases the split between the country. Half the country think they are Afghans and the other half that is cosmopolitan and is considered to be the same as Indians...
start from 1.03 and start from 3.07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh9S984ze54
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Florrick
I don't know the real voting figures for Pakistani elections, too many allegations of electoral fraud and it also got 3-3.9 on the Corruption Perceptions Index, 2010, which shows it's fairly insincere. I think it's better to err on the side of caution.
Fact is the Pakistani population is largely anti-American/pro-Chinese, so no liberation excuse is going to work there. Whether an Islamist party will come in, I don't know.
Fact is the Pakistani population is largely anti-American/pro-Chinese, so no liberation excuse is going to work there. Whether an Islamist party will come in, I don't know.
The Corruption Perceptions Index is pointless it only takes into account the corruption that has officially been declared corruption. What about the corruption in the world that nobody recognises, such as the lobbying by the banks and getting pro bank politicians elected. Then there is the corruption we don't even know about who knows how corrupt the world really is.
Original post by Florrick
I don't know the real voting figures for Pakistani elections, too many allegations of electoral fraud and it also got 3-3.9 on the Corruption Perceptions Index, 2010, which shows it's fairly insincere. I think it's better to err on the side of caution.
Fact is the Pakistani population is largely anti-American/pro-Chinese, so no liberation excuse is going to work there. Whether an Islamist party will come in, I don't know.
Fact is the Pakistani population is largely anti-American/pro-Chinese, so no liberation excuse is going to work there. Whether an Islamist party will come in, I don't know.
so that makes pakistan chinas bitch?
The two countries are long time allies and are both supportive of each other. Its not exactly a one way master-gimp relationship!
Original post by The_Male_Melons
1. Every country in the world has some sort of friendship with China. What makes Pakistan unique? Why is Pakistan's relationship with China so different?
2. Yes, you did. You implied it indirectly. You suggested that some religious party will sweep into power in Pakistan? Where is the evidence? Where is proof?
Yes, Pakistan rates high up on the corruption ladder and there have been accusations of electoral fraud.
That does not necessarily mean, religious parties were at a disadvantage. If they were so popular and they were the favorites, one would assume the media of Pakistan would jump on this.
I don't believe Pakistani religious parties are popular. You seem to think the opposite. Where is the evidence that religious parties will sweep into power?
3. I said that there was a more of a chance of a religious nutcase being elected in America than Pakistan. It was tongue in cheek comment. It is hardly surprising when it comes to election time, religion is a focal point in the US. Even Bush had a dream that God conveyed to him a message.
I yet to hear Pakistani leader make that comment.
I'm not entirely sure, I had left a choice open for a religious party. Why does it make you so unhappy? So religion is a focal point in the USA and what does that compare to Pakistan? This leads me to ponder over the religiosity of Pakistanis to USA citizens, of which evidence, still remains non-existent.
Original post by The_Male_Melons
1. Every country in the world has some sort of friendship with China. What makes Pakistan unique? Why is Pakistan's relationship with China so different?
2. Yes, you did. You implied it indirectly. Re-read what you said. You suggested that some religious party will sweep into power in Pakistan? Where is the evidence? Where is proof?
Yes, Pakistan rates high up on the corruption ladder and there have been accusations of electoral fraud.
That does not necessarily mean, religious parties were at a disadvantage. If they were so popular and they were the favorites, one would assume the media of Pakistan would jump on this.
I don't believe Pakistani religious parties are popular. You seem to think the opposite. Where is the evidence that religious parties will sweep into power?
3. I said that there was a more of a chance of a religious nutcase being elected in America than Pakistan. It was tongue in cheek comment. It is hardly surprising when it comes to election time, religion is a focal point in the US. Even Bush had a dream that God conveyed to him a message.
I yet to hear Pakistani leader make that comment.
3. Pakistan suffers more from the parallel cultures that is in existence. It is a country split between tribes, ethnicity and culture. Such a shame that a country with so much potential is split on silly issues based on race....
An interwiew from Sky News, Jeremy Thompson, with Fatima Bhutto highlights this, it showcases the split between the country. Half the country think they are Afghans and the other half that is cosmopolitan and is considered to be the same as Indians...
start from 1.03 and start from 3.07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh9S984ze54
2. Yes, you did. You implied it indirectly. Re-read what you said. You suggested that some religious party will sweep into power in Pakistan? Where is the evidence? Where is proof?
Yes, Pakistan rates high up on the corruption ladder and there have been accusations of electoral fraud.
That does not necessarily mean, religious parties were at a disadvantage. If they were so popular and they were the favorites, one would assume the media of Pakistan would jump on this.
I don't believe Pakistani religious parties are popular. You seem to think the opposite. Where is the evidence that religious parties will sweep into power?
3. I said that there was a more of a chance of a religious nutcase being elected in America than Pakistan. It was tongue in cheek comment. It is hardly surprising when it comes to election time, religion is a focal point in the US. Even Bush had a dream that God conveyed to him a message.
I yet to hear Pakistani leader make that comment.
3. Pakistan suffers more from the parallel cultures that is in existence. It is a country split between tribes, ethnicity and culture. Such a shame that a country with so much potential is split on silly issues based on race....
An interwiew from Sky News, Jeremy Thompson, with Fatima Bhutto highlights this, it showcases the split between the country. Half the country think they are Afghans and the other half that is cosmopolitan and is considered to be the same as Indians...
start from 1.03 and start from 3.07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh9S984ze54
so pakistans biggest domestic issue is ethnic clashes/hostilities? I always thought it was the influence of the extremist mullahs and their bearded boys.
Original post by Florrick
Because it's the most pro-Chinese population in the entire world. I think it is rather unique, can the same be said vice-versa? Does China gain more from this relationship than Pakistan? I question the balance of this relationship.
I'm not entirely sure, I had left a choice open for a religious party. Why does it make you so unhappy? So religion is a focal point in the USA and what does that compare to Pakistan? This leads me to ponder over the religiosity of Pakistanis to USA citizens, of which evidence, still remains non-existent.
I'm not entirely sure, I had left a choice open for a religious party. Why does it make you so unhappy? So religion is a focal point in the USA and what does that compare to Pakistan? This leads me to ponder over the religiosity of Pakistanis to USA citizens, of which evidence, still remains non-existent.
on what basis? Have you studied it?
Original post by freedom1
The Corruption Perceptions Index is pointless it only takes into account the corruption that has officially been declared corruption. What about the corruption in the world that nobody recognises, such as the lobbying by the banks and getting pro bank politicians elected. Then there is the corruption we don't even know about who knows how corrupt the world really is.
I understand it has criticism, but I think it is realistic to say the country is fairly corrupt.
Original post by MonkeyMan2009
so pakistans biggest domestic issue is ethnic clashes/hostilities? I always thought it was the influence of the extremist mullahs and their bearded boys.
Iran? Pakistan's biggest threat is India not Iran. Pakistan has nukes any non nuclear country such as Iran doesn't come close to being a threat.
Original post by Florrick
Because it's the most pro-Chinese population in the entire world. I think it is rather unique, can the same be said vice-versa? Does China gain more from this relationship than Pakistan? I question the balance of this relationship.
I'm not entirely sure, I had left a choice open for a religious party. Why does it make you so unhappy? So religion is a focal point in the USA and what does that compare to Pakistan? This leads me to ponder over the religiosity of Pakistanis to USA citizens, of which evidence, still remains non-existent.
I'm not entirely sure, I had left a choice open for a religious party. Why does it make you so unhappy? So religion is a focal point in the USA and what does that compare to Pakistan? This leads me to ponder over the religiosity of Pakistanis to USA citizens, of which evidence, still remains non-existent.
1. You question the balance of this relationship- riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight?
In Pakistan, cinemas regularly show Hollywood films, Pakistanis wear western clothing- does this mean they are pro American? They speak a similar language to India, share the same cuisines, the same culture- does this mean they are pro- Indian?It doesn't make sense.
Yes,they are pro-Chinese- what is your point?
Every country has some sort of friendship with China
What is your point?2. Left a choice- don't backtrack. Re-read what you typed. You said "religious parties taking over...." essentially in a nutshell. You have no evidence that a religious party will sweep into power in Pakistan.
I made in a tongue-in-cheek comment. That clearly is beyond you.
Original post by Florrick
I understand it has criticism, but I think it is realistic to say the country is fairly corrupt.
I don't know I don't follow Pakistani politics.
Original post by MonkeyMan2009
on what basis? Have you studied it?
I didn't mean in the sort of way you imply. I haven't studied it and that's what made me question, in which I did beforehand.
Original post by MonkeyMan2009
so pakistans biggest domestic issue is ethnic clashes/hostilities? I always thought it was the influence of the extremist mullahs and their bearded boys.
Yes arguably . It is divided based upon cultural, ethnicity, tribal lines.
Extremist mullahs and bearded boys- lool. It is not the main issue. Their popularity (if there ever was one) is decreasing. They never got into power or have any sort of influence.
Take a trip from Lahore (Pakistan's cultural city) and go to Karachi (Pakistan's financial capital) or Quetta (Pakistan Provincial capital of Balochistan) and it's like a foreign country.
They don't share the same language, culture or anything.
It is trying to get all these different people together.
Take a linguistic stance for example:
Lahore- they speak punjabi. In Karachi they speak Sindhi. In Quetta- they speak Farsi/Pashto.
Put them in a room together- they will never understand each other.
Unless they all speak English...
You can take a person from Karachi/Lahore and stick them in a room with someone from Mumbai or Amritstar (India) and they will understand each other.
Paksitan biggest domestic issues- corruption, corruption, corruption.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by freedom1
I don't know I don't follow Pakistani politics.
http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2011/11/corruption-population-and-pollution/
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011%5C11%5C18%5Cstory_18-11-2011_pg13_4
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/feedback/08-11-2011/119539-pakistan_corruption-0/
http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=78873&Cat=2
http://www.sananews.net/english/2011/10/present-ruling-parties-responsible-for-injustice-corruption-us-invasion-in-pak-munawar/
http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=123005
Original post by Scarface-Don
Pakistan is extremely immature by cutting supplies to NATO forces in response. How many NATO soldiers have been killed by Pakistani-trained and armed insurgents? If the USA cuts its aid to Pakistan, the country would starve to death.
Starve to death, nice exaggeration.
Original post by freedom1
Iran? Pakistan's biggest threat is India not Iran. Pakistan has nukes any non nuclear country such as Iran doesn't come close to being a threat.
Did I mention iran?
reading your comment, I asked if pakistans biggest domestic issue was ethnic clashes/hostilies....
I always thought it was extremist mullahs and their bearded boys.
Original post by Florrick
I didn't mean in the sort of way you imply. I haven't studied it and that's what made me question, in which I did beforehand.
ok..... pakistan is hardly chinas bitch.... they've been long time allies and although the pakistani population is the most pro-chinese nation, it doesn't make them their bitch.
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