Should tuition fees reflect course costs?

Well I'm quite biased as a hopeful medic and as a medical degree costs a fair few pennies then my answer is fairly predictable. However if you look at it, medics and engineers etc. are hugely important to the country; if the sciences had to pay their actual costs of the course then only the very rich would be able to read those degrees. And I sure as hell won't be getting near any medical courses with costs like that :frown:

Reply 61

rattusratus

14

Original post by SuperWolfPaws

yes but its much more difficult to get into an arts job without the degree. there are too many things to learn especially with a computing based design degree, which requires complex teaching believe it or not. its not the past is it, modern times require a degree as standard to get anywhere.

my boyfriend dropped out of a music certHE and has no qualifications but has a very comfortable job at sage before that he had a job working in mortgage repayments at northern rock, my friend has been in uni for well over 6 years and has post grad degrees in accountancy and bookkeeping can get a job anywhere

degrees aren't a magic ticket to anything unless your specialized in something that needs it, i cant work as a pathologist in health protection agency without a degree as it is very specialized work and the job i want requires specialist clearance to high tech and dangerous areas

not many jobs would require a degree in art or literature or drama so on and so forth

Reply 62

Norton1

18

Original post by Muppet Science

Well I'm quite biased as a hopeful medic and as a medical degree costs a fair few pennies then my answer is fairly predictable. However if you look at it, medics and engineers etc. are hugely important to the country; if the sciences had to pay their actual costs of the course then only the very rich would be able to read those degrees. And I sure as hell won't be getting near any medical courses with costs like that :frown:

Thousands would though, and realistically you probably would too. Any problems we have related to doctors in this country are not down to people wanting to do the job. Plus, it's not like medics aren't recompensed generously for their work.

Reply 63

teek

Lolz the external benefits to the economy/society from a science degree far outweigh those from arts

Reply 64

jackturpon

4

Original post by Maker

It has been said that arts/humanities degrees subsidise science/technology degrees, i.e. arts degrees cost less than the fee charged and science degrees costs more than the fees charged.

Should the cost of arts degrees be cut and science raised to reflect their actual costs?

Do arts graduates tend to pay more or less taxes after graduation?

Reply 65

limetang

19

Original post by Muppet Science

Well I'm quite biased as a hopeful medic and as a medical degree costs a fair few pennies then my answer is fairly predictable. However if you look at it, medics and engineers etc. are hugely important to the country; if the sciences had to pay their actual costs of the course then only the very rich would be able to read those degrees. And I sure as hell won't be getting near any medical courses with costs like that :frown:

Not true (assuming the loans system remained the same) anybody would 'be able' to study those degrees.

I mean, as a chemist I would not like to pay the full cost of my degree, but would full unsubsidised fees put me off? So long as was given the same sort of loan I am now, I don't think they would put me off that much.

Reply 66

anony.mouse

15

They do this for international students don't they?

Don't they have 2, maybe 3 tiers. Lab based courses are the most, and non lab courses and the least. I think there's another category aswell . . . maybe for courses that only have a couple of lab modules.

It is fairer.

But I also think that you should pay for the quality of the course. I don't see how a low ranking uni should be able to charge 8-9k for an arts course.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 67

roh

17

Original post by Muppet Science

Well I'm quite biased as a hopeful medic and as a medical degree costs a fair few pennies then my answer is fairly predictable. However if you look at it, medics and engineers etc. are hugely important to the country; if the sciences had to pay their actual costs of the course then only the very rich would be able to read those degrees. And I sure as hell won't be getting near any medical courses with costs like that :frown:

For medics the NHS would cover the cost, if the current 5th year arrangements are an indication of their willingness to make medical education open to all. Even if it were full course fees under the current loan arrangments a Medical degree still seems a pretty good long term investment and if that weren't to exist banks would definitely step into the breach and provide loans to medical students as they know the money is going to come back eventually.

The impact it may have would be to drive doctors salaries up as in America where fees are very high (around $70,000 for a top med school like Johns Hopkins) but doctors salaries are amongst the highest in the world (take a look at these), so long term such a system would work for you financially! If I were a medic, and being very selfish :tongue:

, I'd be leading the charge for such a fee system as it seems a top way of justifying myself a massive salary lomng term!

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 68

Maker

OP

20

Original post by jackturpon

Do arts graduates tend to pay more or less taxes after graduation?

I do not know.

Reply 69

Dukeofwembley

look at australia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply 70

fudgemuffins

12

As if we need more arts and humanities graduates...

Reply 71

Dukeofwembley

Original post by fudgemuffins

As if we need more arts and humanities graduates...

we dont need science and engineering graduates

we do need business and accounting graduates though, arguably because its where the most graduate jobs lie

Reply 72

Jack93o

15

Original post by Politics Student

Any statistics to back this up?

People seem to presume this based upon contact hours, but humanities and social sciences have a huge cost of journal subscriptions and academic books. We might not have many hours but the rest of our time is spent reading around the subject.

science and engineering courses have all that AND the expensive equipment/facilities to pay for

Reply 73

Jack93o

15

Original post by teek

Lolz the external benefits to the economy/society from a science degree far outweigh those from arts

you do economics don't you?

Reply 74

teek

Original post by Jack93o

you do economics don't you?

used to

on a gap year working in labs now :wink:

Reply 75

purple-girl

17

Original post by Domeface

I can understand that, say, Physics departments may have to buy expensive scientific equipment, but surely this doesn't require tens of thousands per student per year to pay for? Even in subjects like Chemistry where there will be continuous costs of buying in new chemicals, I just cannot see a single student using £20,000 worth of chemicals every year?

I honestly just don't understand it. Can anyone enlighten me?

Some chemicals are scarily expensive and if you're spending a full day or 2 in the lab for the first 3 years and then all day every day for your masters year the chemicals you use add up quickly! Don't forget the waste disposal either, which I believe is expensive. Plus Chemistry departments have really high energy bills (think about it, loads of labs all with several fume hoods pumping hot air out constantly plus loads of machines constantly running, even things like hotplates). I can't remember the exact quote but I heard that my department's energy bill was something along the lines of £5 million a month. Or maybe it was half a million, but even so, considering for a house you'd be looking at closer to ~£300 a month it really is excessive. Then obviously you have the cost of all the specialist machines, and even the not-so-specialist ones (even things like sample jars can be deceptively expensive and cannot/should not be reused), textbooks, journal subscriptions, software subscriptions (molecular drawing software etc)...it all adds up. That's not to mention the costs that all departments have, like the staff salaries.

Anyway, as for the actual topic of the debate *technically* all students should do the same amount of work, with Science students having more contact hours but Arts students expected to do more outside reading. I know in practice this is not necessarily the case, but even so. I think it would be a bad idea to make fees correspond to course costs as that would put off potential scientists and it's scientists we're lacking!