Remove RE/Citizenship From The Curriculum And Replace With Programming!
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Original post by dlaiden
Attitudes like these are exactly why we need RE, albeit a better version of it than we have now. Intolerant/ignorant mindsets are what RE is meant to challenge, in both religious and irreligious persons. Not liking/disagreeing with something does not make it unimportant.
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But if its wrong its unimportant.
They are bringing in programming. They're scrapping ICT from the curriculum and replacing it with computing.
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Original post by bembem
But if its wrong its unimportant.
Wrong and right are often used subjectively. At the risk of getting philosophical here, only analytic, non-contingent truths are 'wrong' or 'right.' You may believe religion is wrong, others may disagree; either way the existence of a god/God/gods can't be proven absolutely true or false. Anyone who is intellectually honest, atheist or theist, knows that.
Moreover, that statement is complete nonsense. We learn from things that are wrong or 'mistaken,' how the hell do you think science got anywhere? How do you think your beloved programming has got as far as it has? Maybe you disagree with religion, but that does not make it unimportant or something you can't learn from.
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Original post by dlaiden
Wrong and right are often used subjectively. At the risk of getting philosophical here, only analytic, non-contingent truths are 'wrong' or 'right.' You may believe religion is wrong, others may disagree; either way the existence of a god/God/gods can't be proven absolutely true or false. Anyone who is intellectually honest, atheist or theist, knows that.
Moreover, that statement is complete nonsense. We learn from things that are wrong or 'mistaken,' how the hell do you think science got anywhere? How do you think your beloved programming has got as far as it has? Maybe you disagree with religion, but that does not make it unimportant or something you can't learn from.
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Moreover, that statement is complete nonsense. We learn from things that are wrong or 'mistaken,' how the hell do you think science got anywhere? How do you think your beloved programming has got as far as it has? Maybe you disagree with religion, but that does not make it unimportant or something you can't learn from.
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So edgy.
R.E. and Citizenship are woefully insufficient. The R.E. I was taught was incredibly simplistic, and devoid of theology (to be fair to my teacher, who was actually pretty good, it's the curriculum as a whole), and I really can't remember much of what I was taught in Citizenship (again, the curriculum). However, I think replacing them completely would be throwing the baby away with the bath water. There is definitely room and necessity for both Ethics and Civics education on the timetable. Playing around with computers is a technical skill - traditional Mathematics and the Sciences will suffice for teaching logic.
British Youth Council are running campaigns to pressure Education Secretary Michael Gove to reform the citizenship curriculum, but the curriculum covers issues such as drug awareness, alcohol awareness, sexual and relationship education, and to an extent financial education; primary citizenship covers issues such as cyber safety, bullying, basic budgeting, puberty etc. I feel personally that replacing RE and Civics with Programming would be a poor move as it would essentially increase the gap in knowledge that the general public have of other religions.
Original post by bembem
So edgy.
Right...so this is the bit where you go silent because you've nothing to say, and you're using a prior criticism of yourself to save face? Fine with me. I'm not sure why I wasted my time debating with an obvious troll in the first place.
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Original post by ThatPerson
They can retain it in primary school but remove it from secondary school then? 
Secondary school still has some important lessons to be learnt-at my school so far we've done managing finances, alcohol awareness, political system, safe sex and more things which really come in useful. I think the curriculum/execution could be altered in some cases but overall it's not really worth replacing.
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Original post by bembem
Why would I waste my time learning about things that actually didnt happen?
What didn't happen
Millions of people didn't follow a variety of religions ... your education must have been VERY poor if you think this
Original post by bembem
So edgy.
Please remember that this is Educational Debate, in Debate and Current Affairs. To call something "wrong" (which is your opinion, and you a free to both have and defend it, but is nonetheless a subjective opinion), and then simply replying "so edgy" to a member who does make some interesting counter-points, is not constructive debate.
Original post by River85
Please remember that this is Educational Debate, in Debate and Current Affairs. To call something "wrong" (which is your opinion, and you a free to both have and defend it, but is nonetheless a subjective opinion), and then simply replying "so edgy" to a member who does make some interesting counter-points, is not constructive debate.
I'm very very sorry.
I haven't done R.E. since year 9 or citizenship since year 8, so I can't really comment much on removing it. Although they did both feel like a bit of a waste of time when I did them. I do think, however, that the IT qualification should be changed. When I did it, we did the OCR National that gives us 4 qualifications, and a lot of did seem a bit pointless. I think this should either be replaced with computer science, or offer a new (compulsory?) qualification that combines I.T. and some programming.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by bembem
I'm very very sorry.
Not sure how sincere that is (and I wasn't looking for an apology, just letting you know/reminding you of posting guidelines) but thanks
Nor do I mean to suggest you are alone, as having checked through this thread there are other instances of poor posting (including warnable examples), so can everyone please keep what I've said in mind. Try and debate/discuss this issue constructively and be respectful of other peoples views. Thanks.
As for myself, I can't speak about Citizenship as I have no experience of the subject. It was not brought into the NC until after (perhaps well after) I finished my secondary education. However, I feel to remove religious studies would be a great mistake for reasons that have already been explored. This doesn't mean that I think RE doesn't need reform, however. I remember my R.E lessons (at a Catholic school) consisted entirely of Catholicism with only a small amount of Protestantism. Nothing about any non-Christian religions. It was also very dry, of little use, and beyond some ethical issues, of no interest to me.
Original post by Sheldor
Secondary school still has some important lessons to be learnt-at my school so far we've done managing finances, alcohol awareness, political system, safe sex and more things which really come in useful. I think the curriculum/execution could be altered in some cases but overall it's not really worth replacing.
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I don't remember a single thing from any of those lessons and I didn't find them useful imo.
That content can be covered in in about 8 lessons max, and doesn't need to be stretched out over the entire academic year.
Original post by ThatPerson
I don't remember a single thing from any of those lessons and I didn't find them useful imo.
That content can be covered in in about 8 lessons max, and doesn't need to be stretched out over the entire academic year.
That content can be covered in in about 8 lessons max, and doesn't need to be stretched out over the entire academic year.
Guess it depends on the school then. You could have some kind of alternating lesson-so you learn programming or whatever you want to replace it with half the year then do citenzship the other half? We definitely couldn't have covered all the financial, careers and politics lessons in 8 sessions, let alone the alcohol, fire and drugs.
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Original post by Ham22
_Remind me what is learnt in citizenship_? _my memory tells me those lessons were a waste of time.- _(key board is screwed,# sorry_)
It basically teaches children that a 'good citizen' is one who obeys the law and pays taxes - so, removing meaningful resistance to what the government does then.
As a prospective R.E teacher I think this is a stupid idea! I can't really comment on citizenship as I don't remember being taught it (I believe it is cross curricular for most), but R.E isn't a complete waste of time. I do, however, think the curriculum needs a bit of revising. R.E isn't just religious education, it is also life education, getting pupils to consider ethical and moral situations in advance.
Besides, I can't think of time where it is more needed to know about other religions, in our multicultural society. Understanding should equal rsepect. We clearly don't have that at the moment.
Besides, I can't think of time where it is more needed to know about other religions, in our multicultural society. Understanding should equal rsepect. We clearly don't have that at the moment.
I think citizenship is fine as long as it sticks to political and life issues. RE definitely needs to go. Why should taxpayer's money be spent on advertising for these backwards cults? Maybe we should teach people to be extremists as well, for all the logic it makes.
Original post by Snagprophet
I think citizenship is fine as long as it sticks to political and life issues. RE definitely needs to go. Why should taxpayer's money be spent on advertising for these backwards cults? Maybe we should teach people to be extremists as well, for all the logic it makes.
RE isn't advertising them, it's just teaching pupils about the practices of other religions. It's not always appealing. Like it or not, we can't avoid religion. Besides, a lot of people find it interesting, regardless of religious beliefs. I'm an atheist yet I find religion fascinating.
I can understand why people are so against it, but we only had one hour of it a week so it's not like it's taking up too much time.
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