Should we boycott the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia?
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Did the African-Americans not attend the Berlin Olympics in Nazi Germany? No. They went, and if you remember they crushed Hitlers racial superiority concepts. But, that didn't stop the murder of 11 million civilians.
i am strongly against gays and so i think there will be an even bigger crowd this year.
"Sports are outside politics and we should ignore what Russia is doing"
Strong poll choice there, OP. Seeing a distinction between sports and politics does not mean that you think that what Russia does should be ignored. They're separate issues. Would have negged you on that principle alone if I was able to.
Strong poll choice there, OP. Seeing a distinction between sports and politics does not mean that you think that what Russia does should be ignored. They're separate issues. Would have negged you on that principle alone if I was able to.
Original post by Hannibal Lecter
How is my analogy invalid?
Because I'm talking about Western people wanting the whole world to be like us because only our way is right. Acting all self righteous and high and mighty as if we don't have our vices
You're talking about criticising a crime.
Massive difference.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Firstly, Russia is not a dictatorship. Secondly, Russia does have a tendency to tell other nations that tell them what to do to **** off. Thirdly, and this is the most important point, people need to free themselves first, not rely on others to dictate.
I don't agree with Russia's anto gay laws, but I'm not russian. If this is such a big deal why aren't we seeing stonewall and Steven fry taking their battle to Nigeria or every Muslim nation?
I don't agree with Russia's anto gay laws, but I'm not russian. If this is such a big deal why aren't we seeing stonewall and Steven fry taking their battle to Nigeria or every Muslim nation?
They can't free themselves. That was my point. People say things like (this kind of thing, not a specific example) 'we need to let the North Korean population figure it out for themselves' with the implication that there is any possibility of them being able to do that. Why shouldn't they rely on others to help when they can't help themselves? A further (different) question: why shouldn't we help people when they can't help themselves?
To be honest, your post strikes me mostly as a random collection of, if not wrong, pointless assertions. I didn't come close to implying that Russia is a dictatorship. I didn't say that Russia would be happy about a boycott. I'm not Russian either, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't speak out, and expect others to do so, when Russian people are subjected to ill treatment. An argument in the form 'you are not x; therefore, you should not be concerned about the mistreatment of x' manifestly does not work. What Stephen Fry thinks about Nigeria isn't really relevant.
Original post by Welsh_insomniac
So if we start boycotting this, then where will the Olympics ever be held at? Will it only be restricted to 10 countries within Western Europe and the Anglosphere? You'll be cutting out over 90% of countries for potentially hosting the Olympics.
This one's a more reasonable point. I've also come across the point that a stronger message might be made by anti-anti-gay (which I guess cancels to pro-gay, though that seems to miss the point to me) people using the games as a platform, rather than boycotting it, by coming up with some black power esque way to demonstrate that their attendance shouldn't be taken as acceptance of Putin's laws. (I believe this is Cameron's position.)
Original post by shashy
Am I the only one here who fully supports Russia's laws on homosexuality?
Hopefully, but I fear not.
Original post by 419
What makes us pristine and sacred that gives us the rights to be holier than though giving us the clout to decide what's right or wrong?
This is a ridiculous non-argument which boils down to the claim that nothing is morally right or wrong, if you're seriously suggesting that we can't say that it's wrong because the Russian government has decided that it isn't.
I shouldn't have to point out that 'you have mistreated people before; therefore, you cannot note that others are mistreating people' is ad hom (tu quoque). This is worse, in fact, because it relies upon a dubious use of 'you'.
(edited 10 years ago)
Whilst a boycott is a great idea, we need to think could such actions make the suffering of the Russian LGBT even worse? Anybody who is against gays, why? and to the guy who supports the Russian laws in particular - shame on you. Their laws are going to result in an increase in teen suicides. I just hope Russian LGBT have began thinking about other options - i.e. emigrating to another country.
Gay people really do have alot of influence dont they?
Why not boycott the 2008 games in China? Would we boycott games in Egypt for their persecution of Christians? Turkey for clamping down on protesters? Saudi Arabia where homosexuality can lead to the death penalty?
Gay people in Russia arent being rounded up and put into camps FFS, Russians just dont accept public displays of homosexuality and dont accept it being promoted in schools. Putin is not bringing these measures in against the peoples wishes, they are popular. Russia is not Islington, it has its own traditions and concept of decency and we are not to interfere in that. And if eventually Russians decide to change, fair enough but lets not have this obnoxious liberal mafia running around the world shrieking at what it perceives to be wrong.
Why not boycott the 2008 games in China? Would we boycott games in Egypt for their persecution of Christians? Turkey for clamping down on protesters? Saudi Arabia where homosexuality can lead to the death penalty?
Gay people in Russia arent being rounded up and put into camps FFS, Russians just dont accept public displays of homosexuality and dont accept it being promoted in schools. Putin is not bringing these measures in against the peoples wishes, they are popular. Russia is not Islington, it has its own traditions and concept of decency and we are not to interfere in that. And if eventually Russians decide to change, fair enough but lets not have this obnoxious liberal mafia running around the world shrieking at what it perceives to be wrong.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Hannibal Lecter
I can't help but think that if it were laws against black people then nations like Britain and the US would pull out full stop. Are gay people worth less?
This argument really grinds my gears .Stop comparing gays to us please.
Original post by shashy
Am I the only one here who fully supports Russia's laws on homosexuality?
You honestly believe that the widespread state-endorsed kidnap and torture of gays is justified? I'd ask you to explain why, but I fear you are probably just going to make me further ashamed to call myself a homo sapien if you do. If you don't have respect for human life then why should anyone respect yours?
I really can't understand how homophobes can seriously support violence and persecution of gay people. I would be reasonably happy if it became illegal to promote hipster propaganda to under 30s and I certainly find the wearing of red skinny jeans by heterosexual males to be unnatural, but I would die to preserve the right of anyone and everyone to go about their daily lives without being subjected to violence and hatred insofar as they do not inflict those things on other people.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by dennisraymondsmith
This argument really grinds my gears .Stop comparing gays to us please.
No. Both minority communities, both 'protected characteristics' as per the law, both traditionally persecuted, both with an innate and unchangeable characteristic.
It's a very apt comparison and highlights how the state and other groups view different minorities communities.
Original post by Hannibal Lecter
No. Both minority communities, both 'protected characteristics' as per the law, both traditionally persecuted, both with an innate and unchangeable characteristic.
It's a very apt comparison and highlights how the state and other groups view different minorities communities.
It's a very apt comparison and highlights how the state and other groups view different minorities communities.
No it just seems like you are using us and its wrong , why the need to include us in this whole conversation ? You cannot compare ones skin colour to a sexual preference . Its ludicrous
Original post by Zürich
Gay people really do have alot of influence dont they?
Why not boycott the 2008 games in China? Would we boycott games in Egypt for their persecution of Christians? Turkey for clamping down on protesters? Saudi Arabia where homosexuality can lead to the death penalty?
Gay people in Russia arent being rounded up and put into camps FFS, Russians just dont accept public displays of homosexuality and dont accept it being promoted in schools. Putin is not bringing these measures in against the peoples wishes, they are popular. Russia is not Islington, it has its own traditions and concept of decency and we are not to interfere in that. And if eventually Russians decide to change, fair enough but lets not have this obnoxious liberal mafia running around the world shrieking at what it perceives to be wrong.
Why not boycott the 2008 games in China? Would we boycott games in Egypt for their persecution of Christians? Turkey for clamping down on protesters? Saudi Arabia where homosexuality can lead to the death penalty?
Gay people in Russia arent being rounded up and put into camps FFS, Russians just dont accept public displays of homosexuality and dont accept it being promoted in schools. Putin is not bringing these measures in against the peoples wishes, they are popular. Russia is not Islington, it has its own traditions and concept of decency and we are not to interfere in that. And if eventually Russians decide to change, fair enough but lets not have this obnoxious liberal mafia running around the world shrieking at what it perceives to be wrong.
No one knew or believed the holocaust was happening until it was too late. Unless a government produces statistics about its citizens, how is anyone to know what happens to them? I see that you used the word 'mafia' in reference to people who protest for human rights and liberty, most likely because of the negative connotations. However, I'm afraid a mafia is a criminal organisation. Campaigning for rights is perfectly legal :-)
Original post by sorafdfs
No one knew or believed the holocaust was happening until it was too late. Unless a government produces statistics about its citizens, how is anyone to know what happens to them? I see that you used the word 'mafia' in reference to people who protest for human rights and liberty, most likely because of the negative connotations. However, I'm afraid a mafia is a criminal organisation. Campaigning for rights is perfectly legal :-)
Well there's a huge amount of group think and received wisdom surrounding these kinds of campaigns whereby those who aren't 'onside' are put under pressure to 'correct' their opinion. Who is anyone to tell the Russians what they must and must not do? They have their own history and cultural complexities so I find it ridiculous for some multi millionaire Westerner like Stephen Fry to lecture them.
And comparing this to the holocaust is just nonsense, we're talking about gay rights groups in Russia being told that they're not allowed to have marches(which if anything like the ones in London would essentially be parties where drunk gay people get off with each other, lets be completely honest) essentially because it offends the sensibilities of Russians. Nobody is going to the gulag.
(edited 10 years ago)
Imagine if every country which doesn't have gay equality laws had boycotted the London Olympics on their principles.
Original post by 2ndClass
Does anyone actually watch the Winter Olympics?
Due to the UK's lack of snow and thus also your lack of winter athletes I'm pretty sure few in the UK is going to follow it.
But it's a massive event in Scandinavia and Central Europe, North America, Russia and other places where we actually get snow for more than a couple of days a year.
Original post by 419
What makes us pristine and sacred that gives us the rights to be holier than though giving us the clout to decide what's right or wrong?
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