The British Empire

I just wanted to know your opinion, do you reckon it is fair that the UK is still to date lashed out at because she had an Empire?

For example, the Windrush, the 1960s; when people immigrated from Asian countries; the Indian sub-continent to be more specific, the latest entries to the UK and there are talks of Romanians and Bulgarians entering the country.

There are plenty of other countries that had an Empire in Europe, but they don't seem to receive the stick, but Britain always does..

Reply 1

Jjj90

19

The notion of 'Empire' was a totally natural progression, it always had been. The only reason England takes all the stick is because we were by far the most successful, you never hear people harping on about the Dutch Empire do you?

Most people on this site are historically ignorant, petulant children, that don't care to look at things objectively. They demand that it was evil but can't site a single shred of evidence, they just say something pathetically vague like "yea, bt india!". Just morons. For me when I don't know something I read about it, if these morons that blindly put it down could do the same then maybe we could have a reasonable discussion on this site. But we can't. Fact and liberal bigotry go together like chalk and cheese.

And obviously a lot of the criticism comes from America. In their 200 year history they have more blood on their hands than we do in 2000. But the USA is the centre of the universe now so what they say goes.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 2

Angry Spartan

3

Original post by Jjj90

Most people on this site are historically ignorant, petulant children, that don't care to look at things objectively. They demand that it was evil but can't site a single shred of evidence, they just say something pathetically vague like "yea, bt india!". Just morons. For me when I don't know something I read about it, if these morons that blindly put it down could do the same then maybe we could have a reasonable discussion on this site. But we can't. Fact and liberal bigotry go together like chalk and cheese.

I'm assuming from that part of your post that you consider the Empire to have been a force for good? It's ridiculous to say that the Empire was evil as it's much more complex than a slapped on lable like that, but surely you can't be saying that the Empire (And all European empires for that matter) was not inherently wrong?

If you'd done sufficient reading around the subject, you'd know that the British Empire did some pretty dispicable things. I get the impression, particularly from your past posts, that you don't acknowledge that in a debate. Instead you seem to fall back on "Yea, well, America is worse" as a sort of defence, which is ironically a vague and irrelevent argument.

Reply 3

JungleeBilli

OP

7

Original post by Angry Spartan

I'm assuming from that part of your post that you consider the Empire to have been a force for good? It's ridiculous to say that the Empire was evil as it's much more complex than a slapped on lable like that, but surely you can't be saying that the Empire (And all European empires for that matter) was not inherently wrong?

Exactly.. The infrastructure in India because of The Empire is good enough. And also, the trading... :smile:

Whilst I was studying History, so many hidden truths and lies came out that weren't mentioned to us. I find it ridiculous that still today, this country continues to brag about the Empire being the best part of her history when it clearly had so many downfalls.

The worst part was when the process of decolonisation began, countries were so battered/weak that they didn't have the strength to pick themselves up again. Britain today, knows this and this is a reason why it openly allows 'refugees/asylum seekers' to enter..

A Poet/Writer, Benjamin Zaphaniah, said the British Empire is said to be a “greatest crimes against humanity that has ever happened.”

Reply 4

JungleeBilli

OP

7

Original post by Jjj90

Most people on this site are historically ignorant, petulant children, that don't care to look at things objectively. They demand that it was evil but can't site a single shred of evidence, they just say something pathetically vague like "yea, bt india!".

And obviously a lot of the criticism comes from America. In their 200 year history they have more blood on their hands than we do in 2000. But the USA is the centre of the universe now so what they say goes.

Agreed.
'til date America has scrutinised poorer/third world countries and sits there proudly. They have more bloodshed on their hands than anyone else.

Do you ever why they say 'God Bless America?'

Reply 5

DorianGrayism

19

It depends.

The British Empire committed many acts that were deplorable. Furthermore, many of those criminals were praised at the time and given honours. So , it is important to look at that.

Having said that, it does get annoying when people attempt to blame the Empire as a scape goat for modern conflicts instead of blaming the perpetrators of the crimes.

Reply 6

Ggmu!

I think it's half and half. Being an Indian, I can't help but sometimes focus on the atrocities committed and I also feel that the current divide & conquer politics of India with minorities was introduced by the British. Also found the pace at which partition took place was...interesting. India itself is still effected negatively by colonialism, but not in a way I could expect a non-Indian to understand. It has a lot to do with the Indian identity, and the rubbishing of Hinduism and Indian history by Indologists from the Empire. The British were more than happy to oblige Indians when there was nothing to gain on their end. However I am happy to see a united India (not happy to see Pakistan & Bangladesh, however) and democratic system (although I'd say India is NOT democracy at all in practice). The infrastructure built definitely has helped India HUGELY although I'd like to see it upgraded.

Too many people justify the deplorable acts of the Empire calling it 'natural progression' and that is sad.

Reply 7

Angry Spartan

3

Original post by JungleeBilli

Exactly.. The infrastructure in India because of The Empire is good enough. And also, the trading... :smile:

You've got to consider why the infrastructure was put in place. I'll take the easy option because it's always brought up, but look at the railroads. They weren't built in the colonies so the lives of those native could get better, but to establish economic and military efficiancy.

The free trade aspect of the Empire is also partly a red herring by saying that it was good because you need to look at the Opium Wars between Britain and China. It was a disgraceful episode in British and world history, but it often gets overlooked by Empire apologists.

Original post by JungleeBilli

A Poet/Writer, Benjamin Zaphaniah, said the British Empire is said to be a “greatest crimes against humanity that has ever happened.”

Not sure I agree with that. I can think of several other instances that were greater crimes against humanity, though I fear I'll be the first invoking Godwin's law in this topic (Someone's going to do it).

Reply 8

anarchism101

17

Original post by JungleeBilli

I just wanted to know your opinion, do you reckon it is fair that the UK is still to date lashed out at because she had an Empire?

For example, the Windrush, the 1960s; when people immigrated from Asian countries; the Indian sub-continent to be more specific, the latest entries to the UK and there are talks of Romanians and Bulgarians entering the country.

I'm not sure what you're getting at; what do these things have to do with criticism of the British Empire.

There are plenty of other countries that had an Empire in Europe, but they don't seem to receive the stick, but Britain always does..

Well, as we're in Britain, I'd say we probably focus on it more than we otherwise would. And there's the fact that the British Empire was larger.

I expect if you went to somewhere like Algeria or Mozambique though, many would insist that the French or Portuguese respectively were worse than the British.

Reply 9

the mezzil

3

The Empire did some bad, did some good.

Ultimately though, it was a good thing.

Reply 10

Aj12

18

Original post by the mezzil

The Empire did some bad, did some good.

Ultimately though, it was a good thing.

I don't really see how empire can ever be a good thing. It is inherently designed to benefit the mother country, so wealth will naturally go to the mother country rather than being made by the colony and then invested in the colony. Whilst some nations such as India may not have been too badly damaged by empire I'm still sure they would be better off had we not taken over the nation.

Plus when you look at Africa empire was just a cluster **** for those colonized.

Reply 11

the mezzil

3

Original post by Aj12

I don't really see how empire can ever be a good thing. It is inherently designed to benefit the mother country, so wealth will naturally go to the mother country rather than being made by the colony and then invested in the colony. Whilst some nations such as India may not have been too badly damaged by empire I'm still sure they would be better off had we not taken over the nation.

Plus when you look at Africa empire was just a cluster **** for those colonized.

Exactly, good thing for the British, bad thing for the natives.

Oh... and the fact we did build infrastructure, bring law, technology etc etc.

Therefore, ultimately a good thing.

Reply 12

Aj12

18

Original post by the mezzil

Exactly, good thing for the British, bad thing for the natives.

Oh... and the fact we did build infrastructure, bring law, technology etc etc.

I'd dispute the point on infrastructure given that much of it was useless for a developing nation, less concerned with getting goods or people around a country than getting raw materials out as quickly as possible.

Reply 13

the mezzil

3

Original post by Aj12

I'd dispute the point on infrastructure given that much of it was useless for a developing nation, less concerned with getting goods or people around a country than getting raw materials out as quickly as possible.

The point at which I was making...

You cannot dispute the British built infrastructure. Maybe not for the use of the natives, but it was still built.

Reply 14

Ggmu!

Original post by the mezzil

Exactly, good thing for the British, bad thing for the natives.

Oh... and the fact we did build infrastructure, bring law, technology etc etc.

Therefore, ultimately a good thing.