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Of course, why would you expect them to? I never asked for or received careers advice from teachers. This should be given by specialists.
I think this is just a subtle dig at Michael Gove.
The solution is simple, and something a lot schools do already, bring in Connexions people, to assist in career advice. Pretty easy. Attacking teachers is rarely justified, they work incredibly hard for not very good pay, most teachers are in the job for benevolent reasons, they could make more money and probably be happier elsewhere.
The solution is simple, and something a lot schools do already, bring in Connexions people, to assist in career advice. Pretty easy. Attacking teachers is rarely justified, they work incredibly hard for not very good pay, most teachers are in the job for benevolent reasons, they could make more money and probably be happier elsewhere.
Original post by BefuddledPenguin
I think this is just a subtle dig at Michael Gove.
The solution is simple, and something a lot schools do already, bring in Connexions people, to assist in career advice. Pretty easy. Attacking teachers is rarely justified, they work incredibly hard for not very good pay, most teachers are in the job for benevolent reasons, they could make more money and probably be happier elsewhere.
The solution is simple, and something a lot schools do already, bring in Connexions people, to assist in career advice. Pretty easy. Attacking teachers is rarely justified, they work incredibly hard for not very good pay, most teachers are in the job for benevolent reasons, they could make more money and probably be happier elsewhere.
Connexions has been wound up over much of the country. It is for schools to buy in careers advice where they see fit. Many do not, because if you have a teacher do it, you save on the cost.
Once upon a time before Connexions, careers teacher was a teaching specialism. Connexions destroyed this.
Of course Cable is right, teachers don't know much about the world of private or public sector work. Most teachers come out of university, do a teacher training qualification and then start working in schools. They haven't spent time in industry, professional services or the public sector. Therefore they have few connections or knowledge of the professions their students will likely end up in.
Original post by Classical Liberal
Of course Cable is right, teachers don't know much about the world of private or public sector work. Most teachers come out of university, do a teacher training qualification and then start working in schools. They haven't spent time in industry, professional services or the public sector. Therefore they have few connections or knowledge of the professions their students will likely end up in.
That wasn't true for many of the old style careers teachers before Connexions came along.
This was the CV of my careers teacher in the 1980s. He had done an engineering apprenticeship and had eventually progressed to being HR manager for a major car dealership. He had retrained as a teacher and had worked in a young offenders institution. He then moved into mainstream teaching and as well as teaching at my school, ran the adult education programme in the next borough. He also had a niche manufacturing business which still continues (although in different ownership).
“They know how universities work, they know what you have to do to get an A-level, they know about UCAS forms – but they know absolutely nothing about the world of work.”
What a load of nonsense. For one, a lot of students work whilst in university to support themselves unlike Vince himself, who got a free education in the 1970's. He wouldn't know about that though would he doing a PhD and having Tory parents? I wonder if the silver spoon is still hanging from his mouth.
Secondly, I'm going into teaching this year having worked 2 years in industry before university. There will be many others who have done the same. A lot of teachers I know applying or have spoken to are coming into the field after years and years of experience in the industry because the market is so tough out there due to a high influx of graduates who are cheaper to employ. His generalisations are pathetic and uncalled for, especially considering his own path in life.
The only people disillusioned with the real world are his career politician friends and most of us know who they are. Maybe he should start pointing fingers at those closer to home.
I truly hate Cable, he is a greedy and self-centred rat of a man, but on this issue he is correct.
Original post by Classical Liberal
Of course Cable is right, teachers don't know much about the world of private or public sector work. Most teachers come out of university, do a teacher training qualification and then start working in schools. They haven't spent time in industry, professional services or the public sector. Therefore they have few connections or knowledge of the professions their students will likely end up in.
Wrong. A lot of teachers are coming out of the industry after years of experience because top firms are snapping up graduates with modern skills who are cheaper to employ. They then go for a career change into teaching because they can apply what they know to that role.
You work for a CERN and need a web designer and you have one with 10 years of experience demanding/asking for a pay rise to £45k but his knowledge is limited in newer technologies due to relying on what he knows.
Do you keep that employee or hire a desperate graduate who wants to work at a top firm on £25k per year (cutting overheads by £20k already) who has modern skills he's developed through enthusiasm at university and will be happy and high on morale and won't be demanding a pay rise any time soon?
Its quite obvious what the top companies will do because of the competition and they can select the best on salaries that suit them. Based on the figures quoted, a little change and you could turn a 5 man out of date development team into a 10 man modernised development team that is more agile and has more roles. Its an easy choice.
The vast majority of teachers I met during interview and placements were experienced professionals and if Im being honest I felt a bit out of my depth but its encouraged me to try harder to apply myself and get up to scratch which will only benefit the students I wish to teach in the long run.
Cable's comments are a load of nonsense.
Original post by Mickey O'Neil
What a load of nonsense. For one, a lot of students work whilst in university to support themselves unlike Vince himself, who got a free education in the 1970's. He wouldn't know about that though would he doing a PhD and having Tory parents? I wonder if the silver spoon is still hanging from his mouth.
.
What a load of nonsense. For one, a lot of students work whilst in university to support themselves unlike Vince himself, who got a free education in the 1970's. He wouldn't know about that though would he doing a PhD and having Tory parents? I wonder if the silver spoon is still hanging from his mouth.
.
If you knew anything about Vince Cable you would know his family is strongly working class. His father was a blue collar tory and a member of a teaching trade union...
Vince has worked all over the world from Shell to advising the Kenyan Govt so I think he knows abit about the world. He made a passing remark the media have taken out of context
Original post by James222
If you knew anything about Vince Cable you would know his family is strongly working class. His father was a blue collar tory and a member of a teaching trade union...
Vince has worked all over the world from Shell to advising the Kenyan Govt so I think he knows abit about the world.
Vince has worked all over the world from Shell to advising the Kenyan Govt so I think he knows abit about the world.
Never suggested he doesn't. Still doesn't change the fact he had a free education and parents who at those times, were well enough off to support him. During those years many families were struggling in a lot of areas of the country. It's a pity he wasn't one of them, maybe then he'd have a different outlook.
His generalisations are wrong. A lot of teachers work during university giving an insight into the working world and many are career professionals going down a different path for whatever reason - just like he chose to fully pursue politics after working elsewhere.
I don't like Cable but he is right. Teachers are public sector blaggers. At my school the lack of professionalism and competence was astounding most teachers would not survive in a more competitive employment scenario, As many have not made it out in 'the real world' they are unable to give advice on apprenticeships etc. Looking back now as an adult most of the stuff we did at school is useless in the real world.
At the school I went to the majority of teachers just didn't seem to care about where their pupils were heading.
It has already been covered but this is an embarrassing statement to make for several reasons:
There is a huge amount of teachers who have spent significant time in industry and are very familiar with the workplace.
Many schools have outside careers services come in and do focus on careers work.
To suggest that every graduate would have had no idea of the process involved in applying for a separate profession is ridiculous
Many graduates did internships themselves before going into teaching
Many teachers are related to or very good friends with people from other industries. They may have an idea of what is going on.
Where is his evidence for his ridiculous remarks? I don't remember any form of formal review where the 'real world' knowledge of teachers was tested on an individual basis and found wanting.
I could go on. Schools do need to do better with careers. I think though that government themselves need to do better as well. Pointing the blame at teachers seems a cheap shot from someone who has influence to actually create some beneficial change and yet is failing so woefully that he now resorts to cheap insults and crass remarks. What an embarrassment.
There is a huge amount of teachers who have spent significant time in industry and are very familiar with the workplace.
Many schools have outside careers services come in and do focus on careers work.
To suggest that every graduate would have had no idea of the process involved in applying for a separate profession is ridiculous
Many graduates did internships themselves before going into teaching
Many teachers are related to or very good friends with people from other industries. They may have an idea of what is going on.
Where is his evidence for his ridiculous remarks? I don't remember any form of formal review where the 'real world' knowledge of teachers was tested on an individual basis and found wanting.
I could go on. Schools do need to do better with careers. I think though that government themselves need to do better as well. Pointing the blame at teachers seems a cheap shot from someone who has influence to actually create some beneficial change and yet is failing so woefully that he now resorts to cheap insults and crass remarks. What an embarrassment.
Original post by Complex Simplicity
It has already been covered but this is an embarrassing statement to make for several reasons:
There is a huge amount of teachers who have spent significant time in industry and are very familiar with the workplace.
Many schools have outside careers services come in and do focus on careers work.
To suggest that every graduate would have had no idea of the process involved in applying for a separate profession is ridiculous
Many graduates did internships themselves before going into teaching
Many teachers are related to or very good friends with people from other industries. They may have an idea of what is going on.
Where is his evidence for his ridiculous remarks? I don't remember any form of formal review where the 'real world' knowledge of teachers was tested on an individual basis and found wanting.
I could go on. Schools do need to do better with careers. I think though that government themselves need to do better as well. Pointing the blame at teachers seems a cheap shot from someone who has influence to actually create some beneficial change and yet is failing so woefully that he now resorts to cheap insults and crass remarks. What an embarrassment.
There is a huge amount of teachers who have spent significant time in industry and are very familiar with the workplace.
Many schools have outside careers services come in and do focus on careers work.
To suggest that every graduate would have had no idea of the process involved in applying for a separate profession is ridiculous
Many graduates did internships themselves before going into teaching
Many teachers are related to or very good friends with people from other industries. They may have an idea of what is going on.
Where is his evidence for his ridiculous remarks? I don't remember any form of formal review where the 'real world' knowledge of teachers was tested on an individual basis and found wanting.
I could go on. Schools do need to do better with careers. I think though that government themselves need to do better as well. Pointing the blame at teachers seems a cheap shot from someone who has influence to actually create some beneficial change and yet is failing so woefully that he now resorts to cheap insults and crass remarks. What an embarrassment.
Great post.
Teaching is a profession. It is work, there are deadlines, there are people concerned about what a teacher does (not customers in the sense of someone in a shop, though there are a few similarities). A reasonable proportion had other jobs before going into teaching, and many did part-time work whilst studying.
Actually, whilst Vince Cable had 'proper jobs' before becoming an MP, he is probably in a minority. Most teachers I think know more about work that most politicians.
Actually, whilst Vince Cable had 'proper jobs' before becoming an MP, he is probably in a minority. Most teachers I think know more about work that most politicians.
Original post by Classical Liberal
Yeah - I'm not sure you'd make it as management consultant.
2 years as a manager for a company that's doing well thanks but okay.
What. Were they doctors, bankers, lawyers, accountants, programmers?
Or had they done a bit of work and then realised 'screw this I'm going into teaching where I get short working days, long holidays, and the best pension going'
2 of them were software engineers (1 of which had worked at a top firm) and one of them was a manager at a top firm. They were all in their 30's and it was a bit overwhelming for a young soon to be graduate like me.
Also, the female teacher I observed during placement had previously worked for Samsung in Germany and was in her late 20's.
If Vince Cable feels he can do a better job then he's free to do so.
Also, your generalisation of 'short working days' prove you know nothing. A lot of teachers are in 08:00 - 17:00. A lot of teachers don't go home when the students do and a lot have to go in early to prepare for lessons i.e. set up the projector and making sure the equipment is working etc.
Your misconceptions are bewildering.
(edited 10 years ago)
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