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riffraff
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Dill)
i drink milk, and i know what happens. that's why i have stated somewhere that i would like to be a vegan sometime, but slowly wean myself onto it. for the moment i feel satisfied that i'm actually doing something to show how i feel. which is more than can be said for some people.
better to do something than nothing
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PQ
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#82
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#82
(Original post by sashh)
How many of you drink milk?

I know the cow that actually produces the milk isn't killed but in order for a cow to produce milk it has to give birth and the calves are then slaughted. So is it OK for a vegetarian to drink milk (eat cheese and other dairy products) because the animal the milk came from didn't die or is it wrong because it's calf did?

Just curious again.
http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/content...enuPoint=D-I-A

Drink organic milk
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riffraff
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/content...enuPoint=D-I-A

Drink organic milk
that webpage is so f*cking shortsighted and sensationalist. GM technology could help us to feed millions of people and to stop us having to use dangerous pesticides. some GM varieties were actually found to be benficial to the diverity of the local flora and fauna.
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PQ
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#84
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#84
(Original post by riffraff)
that webpage is so f*cking shortsighted and sensationalist. GM technology could help us to feed millions of people and to stop us having to use dangerous pesticides. some GM varieties were actually found to be benficial to the diverity of the local flora and fauna.
You believe that Monsanto is developing GM "for the good of the world" and to feed the hungry - not to make yet more money.

It probably could feed millions if they didn't sell sterile seeds (ie seeds that won't self seed and allow sustainable farming) or develop plants resistant to only a single type of pesticide (and coincidentally the pesticide that they also produce and sell).

Or do you agree with selling animal products without clear labelling? If your milk was labelled "this milk is from cows fed entirely on waste animal products" would you still buy it...shouldn't consumers be entitled to a choice?

I posted the link NOT because I disagree with GM products but because I disagree with supermarkets denying their customers the information to choose.
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sashh
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/content...enuPoint=D-I-A

Drink organic milk
OK so the organic calf was killed organically but that doesn't really alter the facts does it?
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PQ
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#86
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#86
(Original post by sashh)
OK so the organic calf was killed organically but that doesn't really alter the facts does it?
No - would you prefer it if the calfs were still being shipped over to france to ba raised for veal (BSE had some beneficial side effects when it comes to animal welfare)

But it still comes down to knowing what is in the food you are eating.

(btw organic milk actually tastes nicer too...and the cows aren't pumped full of hormones)
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riffraff
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#87
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#87
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
You believe that Monsanto is developing GM "for the good of the world" and to feed the hungry - not to make yet more money.
no, i don't- but that does not mean the technology can't be used to help other people.

It probably could feed millions if they didn't sell sterile seeds (ie seeds that won't self seed and allow sustainable farming) or develop plants resistant to only a single type of pesticide (and coincidentally the pesticide that they also produce and sell).
I'm noit disagreeing with the fact that the company is corrupt- what I object to is the banning of GM seeds because there has been a publicity scare

Or do you agree with selling animal products without clear labelling? If your milk was labelled "this milk is from cows fed entirely on waste animal products" would you still buy it...shouldn't consumers be entitled to a choice?
how is grain grown on GM plants different to other grain? I quite see how animals which have been fed a non vegetarian diet should have the milk they produce labelled as being unsuitable for vegetarians etc. but I fail to see how animals fed GM grain are in any way different from animals fed normal grain.

I posted the link NOT because I disagree with GM products but because I disagree with supermarkets denying their customers the information to choose.
and I was not disagreeing with you- I was disagreeing with the writers of the website. I am sorry if I gave an alternate impression.
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PQ
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#88
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#88
(Original post by riffraff)
no, i don't- but that does not mean the technology can't be used to help other people.

I'm noit disagreeing with the fact that the company is corrupt- what I object to is the banning of GM seeds because there has been a publicity scare

how is grain grown on GM plants different to other grain? I quite see how animals which have been fed a non vegetarian diet should have the milk they produce labelled as being unsuitable for vegetarians etc. but I fail to see how animals fed GM grain are in any way different from animals fed normal grain.

and I was not disagreeing with you- I was disagreeing with the writers of the website. I am sorry if I gave an alternate impression.
fairy nuff - I don't agree with greenpeace when it comes to labelling GM as a "dangerous technology".

I do think that we should try to prevent it from being grown in the UK if only to give organic farmers a chance to continue charging a premium price for a premium product and not to lose their hard earned organic status due to the proximity of GM crops.

And I do think that supermarkets (who a few years back were all for labelling everything as GM free when it could gain them custom) should not get away with changing their stance on the issue solely to make maybe 0.1p extra on every pint of milk...it's a paltry amount of profit to make in return for risking your loyal customers trust.
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sashh
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#89
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#89
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
No - would you prefer it if the calfs were still being shipped over to france to ba raised for veal (BSE had some beneficial side effects when it comes to animal welfare)

But it still comes down to knowing what is in the food you are eating.

(btw organic milk actually tastes nicer too...and the cows aren't pumped full of hormones)
So in your opinion is it OK for vegetarians to drink milk?
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PQ
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#90
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#90
(Original post by sashh)
So in your opinion is it OK for vegetarians to drink milk?
In my opinion it's OK for anyone to drink anything they like.

However people who claim to never be hypocritical in their actions or opinions are lying to themselves.

We all go against our morals at some point or other through ignorance or laziness pretending to be faultless is IMO the ultimate fault.
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sashh
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#91
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#91
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
In my opinion it's OK for anyone to drink anything they like.

However people who claim to never be hypocritical in their actions or opinions are lying to themselves.

We all go against our morals at some point or other through ignorance or laziness pretending to be faultless is IMO the ultimate fault.
I only asked if it was OK for vegetarians to drink milk. No one mentioned hypocracy and I don't believe people do pretend to be faultless.
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PQ
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#92
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#92
(Original post by sashh)
I only asked if it was OK for vegetarians to drink milk. No one mentioned hypocracy and I don't believe people do pretend to be faultless.
If vegetarians want to drink milk, eat fish, wear leather shoes, eat cheese made with rennet, go fishing for sport etc etc - that's fine...it all depends on the person involved and their reasons for becoming vegetarian and their own morality.

Personally I'd rather continue eating meat but make sure my money goes towards ethically raised animals and animal products and encourage a change in the farming/meat industry that way.
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PQ
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#93
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#93
(Original post by riffraff)
if that's what you want to do then fine, none of the vegetarians on this thread are pressurising you to change your lifestyle. we've already admitted that it can sometimes be very difficult to completely eradicate meat products from your life, however, as we have already pointed out, we try to do so as much as we can. we are not hypocritical, and although it may not be what you intend, it appears that you are accusing us of hypocrisy.
I'm not accusing vegetarians of hypocrisy

I'm accusing every single person on this planet of hypocrisy....at some point in every one's life they will be a hypocrite. There is nothing *wrong* with being a hypocrite it's simply the result of living in a complex world surrounded by complex people and trying to get through the day.

In the case of *some* vegetarian's who've given up meat products for animal welfare reasons they *might* have consumed rennet or geletin or another animal product either accidentally or through ignorance. This is a hypocritical action. If you announce to the world (and yourself) that you have given something up and then do/eat that thing again then you have gone back on your word.

I'm not trying to judge anyone and I really couldn't give a flying f**k either way - people will do what they want and what they need to to get through to tomorrow without going insane.
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Howard
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#94
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#94
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
I'm not accusing vegetarians of hypocrisy

I'm accusing every single person on this planet of hypocrisy....at some point in every one's life they will be a hypocrite.
Apart from me. And possibly Jesus.
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PQ
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#95
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#95
(Original post by Howard)
Apart from me. And possibly Jesus.
Oh I'm sure we could dig up some dirt on Jesus
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Howard
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#96
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#96
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
Oh I'm sure we could dig up some dirt on Jesus
Yes, I shouldn't have included him really.

<clap of thunder overhead and sudden flash of lightening leaves Howard resembling a slice of overcooked bacon>
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AveHan
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#97
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#97
I'm veggie, it's a personal choice...I don't wanna eat anything with a face, but I don't have a problem with other people eating meat...even though I think my way is best! And I happen to really like quorn. You can also get protein from plenty of other sources eg. kidney beans, you don't have to eat it at all. I drink milk, but I buy organic, I know the arguments against drinking cows milk, but I believe in just being careful what you buy. I always always buy free range eggs. I try to avoid buying leather shoes, and don't eat fish, rennet or gelatin. Veggies rock!
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Howard
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#98
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#98
(Original post by AveHan)
I'm veggie, it's a personal choice...I don't wanna eat anything with a face, but I don't have a problem with other people eating meat...even though I think my way is best! And I happen to really like quorn. You can also get protein from plenty of other sources eg. kidney beans, you don't have to eat it at all. I drink milk, but I buy organic, I know the arguments against drinking cows milk, but I believe in just being careful what you buy. I always always buy free range eggs. I try to avoid buying leather shoes, and don't eat fish, rennet or gelatin. Veggies rock!
Well isn't eating eggs murdering chickens?
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riffraff
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#99
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#99
(Original post by Howard)
Well isn't eating eggs murdering chickens?
chickens are the only birds to lay multiple infertile eggs (or at least that was what i was told)
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GH
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#100
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#100
(Original post by Howard)
Well isn't eating eggs murdering chickens?
Potential chickens.

Its like saying squashing an acorn = cutting an oak tree
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