Three young Muslims gunned down in North Carolina family home
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Original post by FATchristopher
Absolute rubbish. Who executes three people over a parking dispute? Oh right of course he was mentally insane...
Who know what type of person does this (but I'm sure you're not going to try and argue random killing sprees are uncommon in America)
but unless you have some facts that no one else knows about then your post is simply hysteria
But no no double standard man kills people over parking dispute is nothing more than a local issue
But I'm trying to work out why some want this to signify more than it actually does
But as for the rise in attack on muslims do you not think this relates to the rise in attacks on non muslims by muslims as you said your self the rise happened AFTER the Islamist attack on the cartoonists and random Jews (what is it now an average of 1 arrest per day for terrorism related crimes by muslims in the UK alone)?
But again I see the desperation in the cry of victim hood and how low some people are willing to go to try and claim 'victim' and the abhorrent use of a random killing blown into an all out attack on 'muslims'
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by PopaPork
Who know what type of person does this (but I'm sure you're not going to try and argue random killing sprees are uncommon in America)
but unless you have some facts that no one else knows about then your post is simply hysteria
But no no double standard man kills people over parking dispute is nothing more than a local issue
But I'm trying to work out why some want this to signify more than it actually does
But as for the rise in attack on muslims do you not think this relates to the rise in attacks on non muslims by muslims as you said your self the rise happened AFTER the Islamist attack on the cartoonists and random Jews (what is it now an average of 1 arrest per day for terrorism related crimes by muslims in the UK alone)?
But again I see the desperation in the cry of victim hood and how low some people are willing to go to try and claim 'victim' and the abhorrent use of a random killing blown into an all out attack on 'muslims'
but unless you have some facts that no one else knows about then your post is simply hysteria
But no no double standard man kills people over parking dispute is nothing more than a local issue
But I'm trying to work out why some want this to signify more than it actually does
But as for the rise in attack on muslims do you not think this relates to the rise in attacks on non muslims by muslims as you said your self the rise happened AFTER the Islamist attack on the cartoonists and random Jews (what is it now an average of 1 arrest per day for terrorism related crimes by muslims in the UK alone)?
But again I see the desperation in the cry of victim hood and how low some people are willing to go to try and claim 'victim' and the abhorrent use of a random killing blown into an all out attack on 'muslims'
There is evidence which does suggest that this was more than a local issue (the facebook profile of the killer, the execution style of the murder does not really appear random). You also seem just as desperate NOT to label this as an attack on religion.
Anyway, for arguments sake lets say it was just a local issue about parking. If it was a Muslim with a questionable Facebook profile who had killed three atheist students there would be absolutely no question that the man would be labelled a terrorist and Islam would be vilified all over mainstream media. I don't think anyone can deny this.
Muslims are victims of the inconsistent coverage and media bigotry and that is the main issue. The fact is that even if it was a local issue such a story might invoke sympathy towards muslims which would go against the anti-Muslim sentiment that is currently being portrayed.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/the-shameful-islamophobia-at-the-heart-of-britains-press-861096.html
Double standards in media do exist I'm afraid.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
1st: Increased Islamophobia in the West, especially from where I'm coming, Germany.
Evidence?
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
Many attacks have been carried out in Germany against Hijabis, e.g. Ayisha's case.
Evidence? Including evidence of murders and them being motivated by hijabs?
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
In particular, when I talk about the UK, it is not that bad, I must say. However, I've lived my life in Germany mostly and I know the kind of attacks my friends and family has to go through. Obviously, depending on the area, it either decreases or increases.
Evidence?
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
Its not only about murder but rather the negative attacks and hatred towards merely a piece of cloth. Are you aware of the Delta flight racism? Are aware of the recent violent attack on a Muslim man in Germany?
Wow 2 attacks? You do realise that every community is at some point the victim of crime? 2 attacks (of which you supply no evidence) do not establish any trend.
I suspect you misunderstand why some non-muslims are not particularly warm to the Islamic faith. It's nothing to do with cloth. It's to do with perceptions of incompatible values, negative or unsupportive behaviour towards the country they have moved to and problems with integration.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
Now what I meant by saying that I'm scared for my life because I wear a Hijab was that its a definite symbol of my religion towards which there's a lot of hatred. I saw a comment in this thread where someone said they were scared because they were part Asian and part White but had a tan skin and was scared that people mistake them as a Muslim. What would you say about it?
Now what I meant by saying that I'm scared for my life because I wear a Hijab was that its a definite symbol of my religion towards which there's a lot of hatred. I saw a comment in this thread where someone said they were scared because they were part Asian and part White but had a tan skin and was scared that people mistake them as a Muslim. What would you say about it?
I'd say you have a very weak case if you're relying on things like that off TSR as your evidence.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
And thanks for the suggest of going to the GP but it was failed try. In the height of situation, people do get worried and scared.
The height of what situation? You make it sound as if there are baying mobs of non-believers running around the streets hunting for muslims night and day. Get a grip.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
This is how it works. After the 9/11, many in my area assumed we might be violent creatures cos we were Muslims. I'm not delusional, maybe you are, in that you are neglecting the natural social fear that comes after incidents like this or the 9/11.
Evidence?
Do you not think you're incredibly defensive and "oh my god everyone is out to get us" attitude probably CAUSES more anti-muslim hate than anything else? Self imposed victim syndrome and assuming everyone who isn't muslim behaves like that and generalising them = a sure fire way to make people dislike you.
Original post by FATchristopher
There is evidence which does suggest that this was more than a local issue
Nope there is not
the rest of your post is irrelevant and nothing more than a poor attempt at making this into something it isn't
Original post by jenkinsear
Evidence?
Evidence? Including evidence of murders and them being motivated by hijabs?
Evidence?
Wow 2 attacks? You do realise that every community is at some point the victim of crime? 2 attacks (of which you supply no evidence) do not establish any trend.
I suspect you misunderstand why some non-muslims are not particularly warm to the Islamic faith. It's nothing to do with cloth. It's to do with perceptions of incompatible values, negative or unsupportive behaviour towards the country they have moved to and problems with integration.
I'd say you have a very weak case if you're relying on things like that off TSR as your evidence.
The height of what situation? You make it sound as if there are baying mobs of non-believers running around the streets hunting for muslims night and day. Get a grip.
Evidence?
Do you not think you're incredibly defensive and "oh my god everyone is out to get us" attitude probably CAUSES more anti-muslim hate than anything else? Self imposed victim syndrome and assuming everyone who isn't muslim behaves like that and generalising them = a sure fire way to make people dislike you.
Evidence? Including evidence of murders and them being motivated by hijabs?
Evidence?
Wow 2 attacks? You do realise that every community is at some point the victim of crime? 2 attacks (of which you supply no evidence) do not establish any trend.
I suspect you misunderstand why some non-muslims are not particularly warm to the Islamic faith. It's nothing to do with cloth. It's to do with perceptions of incompatible values, negative or unsupportive behaviour towards the country they have moved to and problems with integration.
I'd say you have a very weak case if you're relying on things like that off TSR as your evidence.
The height of what situation? You make it sound as if there are baying mobs of non-believers running around the streets hunting for muslims night and day. Get a grip.
Evidence?
Do you not think you're incredibly defensive and "oh my god everyone is out to get us" attitude probably CAUSES more anti-muslim hate than anything else? Self imposed victim syndrome and assuming everyone who isn't muslim behaves like that and generalising them = a sure fire way to make people dislike you.
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/02/12/397239/Mosque-comes-under-attack-in-Britain
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/firebombs-and-pigs-heads-thrown-into-mosques-as-antimuslim-attacks-increase-after-paris-shootings-9977423.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/british-muslim-school-children-suffering-a-backlash-of-abuse-following-paris-attacks-9999393.html
Literally just typed in rise in anti-Muslim attacks in google and a bunch of results came up. You can choose to remain blind if you want.
Original post by FATchristopher
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/02/12/397239/Mosque-comes-under-attack-in-Britain
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/firebombs-and-pigs-heads-thrown-into-mosques-as-antimuslim-attacks-increase-after-paris-shootings-9977423.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/british-muslim-school-children-suffering-a-backlash-of-abuse-following-paris-attacks-9999393.html
Literally just typed in rise in anti-Muslim attacks in google and a bunch of results came up. You can choose to remain blind if you want.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/firebombs-and-pigs-heads-thrown-into-mosques-as-antimuslim-attacks-increase-after-paris-shootings-9977423.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/british-muslim-school-children-suffering-a-backlash-of-abuse-following-paris-attacks-9999393.html
Literally just typed in rise in anti-Muslim attacks in google and a bunch of results came up. You can choose to remain blind if you want.
I do not read Iranian propaganda.
As for other 2 links, they details a couple of alleged incidents. Still not the level of evidence required to back up the claims of the original commentator at all.
"So, a guy lives his entire life, with all its attendant arguments, disappointments and confrontations without harming others. Then, out of the blue, he executes three people because of a parking space. The fact that these three people are publicly and openly part of a small religious minority, the fact that the shooter has ranted against religion in general, the fact that the shooter executes them with a shot to the back of the head (rather than passionately in an argumentative way), the fact that the killer murders ALL THREE of the residents and not just the one he is "arguing" with, the fact that this killing took place in a state with a reputation for Islamophobia, etc., etc., is apparently insufficient to investigate this as a hate crime.
If it had been a Muslim who had executed three Evangelical Christians or three Jews there would be no doubt in anyone's mind that it was motivated by hate and not by a parking space. (Yup, even if the killer was a self-proclaimed "anti-theist".)"
If it had been a Muslim who had executed three Evangelical Christians or three Jews there would be no doubt in anyone's mind that it was motivated by hate and not by a parking space. (Yup, even if the killer was a self-proclaimed "anti-theist".)"
Original post by Reluire
Rest of article can be found here.
Very sad news obviously. Interesting to see people comparing this to the Charlie Hebdo shootings though. What do you guys think?
Very sad news obviously. Interesting to see people comparing this to the Charlie Hebdo shootings though. What do you guys think?
Why does the facts they're Muslims somehow make this inherently newsworthy?
Comparing it to Charlie Hebdo is puerile. Once again, we have the usual cry of victimhood and self-pity from the religion of peace.
The fact they are using these young men's death for some kind of pity/victimhood agenda is revolting
Original post by Yawn-er
3 young persons have been murdered for their religious beliefs
Where is the evidence that is why they were murdered?
This is worse than the Lee Rigby murder.
Yup, the typical Muslim "Our suffering is worse than your suffering" contest
(Also worth pointing out that only ONE newspaper has been reporting this. No US papers appear to have touched it so far. Only the independent.)
Because sadly, triple homocides are far from a rare occurrence in the US. The fact you only seem to care when Muslims die demonstrates what this is really about
Original post by Lost Cloud
A devout follower of the new atheism movement. Undoubtedly, if 'Craig Hicks' happened to be a 'Ahmad Choudhury' there would've been a full-blown media analysis into the links between his religious/ideological background and offence
Wow. So you can now perhaps ascribe 1 killing to a mentally ill follower of the new atheist movement.
How many killings can we ascribe to fundamentalist Islam? Perhaps your answer will tell you about why there is a disparity.
Original post by al_94
Yes I agree many atheists have extreme/radical views but nobody talks about it.
If there was a vast network of atheist madrassas, and atheist hate preachers radicalising atheist youth to blow themselves up in mosques and churches, then you might have a skerrick of a point.
Until that happens, it just comes across as revoltingly prejudiced special pleading
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by young_guns
Why does the facts they're Muslims somehow make this inherently newsworthy?
Comparing it to Charlie Hebdo is puerile. Once again, we have the usual cry of victimhood and self-pity from the religion of peace.
The fact they are using these young men's death for some kind of pity/victimhood agenda is revolting
Comparing it to Charlie Hebdo is puerile. Once again, we have the usual cry of victimhood and self-pity from the religion of peace.
The fact they are using these young men's death for some kind of pity/victimhood agenda is revolting
It doesn't. What makes this newsworthy is the fact that there is such a vile culture of 'blame it on the Muslims' surfacing at the moment that a news story showing Muslims on the receiving end of vile crime is something that helps to show people that Muslims suffer too. I don't see any cry of victimhood; I see grievance and upset caused by a despicable crime. What I see from you on the other hand is a blunt and harsh loathing of Islam.
Original post by Reluire
It doesn't. What makes this newsworthy is the fact that there is such a vile culture of 'blame it on the Muslims' surfacing at the moment
You mean when Islamists carry out a terrorist attack, Islam cops some blame? Which Islamist terrorist attack are you claiming was unfairly unascribed?
that a news story showing Muslims on the receiving end of vile crime is something that helps to show people that Muslims suffer too
No-one is saying Muslims don't suffer, Muslims are human beings and to be human is to know suffering.
The problem with Islam is many Muslims think only their suffering matters. You can't have a serious conversation with Muslims about many topics without them taking over the conversation and turning it into one about the Palestinians.
When was the last time you were so interested in an American triple homicide? Or doesn't it matter when they're black? You only pay attention when they're Muslim, eh?
I see grievance and upset caused by a despicable crime.
Crimes happen all the time. What I see here is an attempt by Muslims to say, "See! The Rigby murder wasn't so bad" and basically turning it into a scoreboard because they can't handle the slightest justifiable criticism over things like ISlamist terror
The fact that people on here are comparing a one-off murder to the thousands and thousands of deaths caused by the organised Islamist jihad tendency is laughable and demonstrates utter cluelessness and prejudice
Original post by jenkinsear
I suspect you misunderstand why some non-muslims are not particularly warm to the Islamic faith. It's nothing to do with cloth. It's to do with perceptions of incompatible values, negative or unsupportive behaviour towards the country they have moved to and problems with integration.
I suspect you misunderstand why some non-muslims are not particularly warm to the Islamic faith. It's nothing to do with cloth. It's to do with perceptions of incompatible values, negative or unsupportive behaviour towards the country they have moved to and problems with integration.
Bloody well said.
As a gay man, I could be said to fear Islam and with good reason. I see what groups like ISIS are doing to gay people (throwing them off tall buildings), and then when the issue is raised many Muslims try to justify it by reference to western foreign policy.
Anyone who values freedom, progressive values, the separation of church and state, should look askance at political Islam (Muslim Brotherhood, Hizb ut Tahrir etc), its mealy-mouthed inability to outright condemn terrorism and and religious violence.
It's ludicrous that people on the hard left have allowed their incoherent, blind hatred of the West and its foreign policy to morph into some kind of bizarro sympathy for the most regressive religion on earth (of the countries that punish homosexuality with death, all are Islamic)
Original post by Reluire
What I see from you on the other hand is a blunt and harsh loathing of Islam.
By the way, why shouldn't I look askance at Islam? Do you think it's just coincidence that every country in the world that punishes homosexuality with death is Islamic?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by jenkinsear
Evidence?
Evidence? Including evidence of murders and them being motivated by hijabs?
Evidence?
Wow 2 attacks? You do realise that every community is at some point the victim of crime? 2 attacks (of which you supply no evidence) do not establish any trend.
I suspect you misunderstand why some non-muslims are not particularly warm to the Islamic faith. It's nothing to do with cloth. It's to do with perceptions of incompatible values, negative or unsupportive behaviour towards the country they have moved to and problems with integration.
I'd say you have a very weak case if you're relying on things like that off TSR as your evidence.
The height of what situation? You make it sound as if there are baying mobs of non-believers running around the streets hunting for muslims night and day. Get a grip.
Evidence?
Do you not think you're incredibly defensive and "oh my god everyone is out to get us" attitude probably CAUSES more anti-muslim hate than anything else? Self imposed victim syndrome and assuming everyone who isn't muslim behaves like that and generalising them = a sure fire way to make people dislike you.
Evidence? Including evidence of murders and them being motivated by hijabs?
Evidence?
Wow 2 attacks? You do realise that every community is at some point the victim of crime? 2 attacks (of which you supply no evidence) do not establish any trend.
I suspect you misunderstand why some non-muslims are not particularly warm to the Islamic faith. It's nothing to do with cloth. It's to do with perceptions of incompatible values, negative or unsupportive behaviour towards the country they have moved to and problems with integration.
I'd say you have a very weak case if you're relying on things like that off TSR as your evidence.
The height of what situation? You make it sound as if there are baying mobs of non-believers running around the streets hunting for muslims night and day. Get a grip.
Evidence?
Do you not think you're incredibly defensive and "oh my god everyone is out to get us" attitude probably CAUSES more anti-muslim hate than anything else? Self imposed victim syndrome and assuming everyone who isn't muslim behaves like that and generalising them = a sure fire way to make people dislike you.
It'll help you more if you look for yourself the recent evidence in news. But I don't blame you because most of the time, when a news is concerned with Muslims being victim is either not given enough media coverage or neglected completely. For sure, in Germany, aware of the Dresden protests? If not, search for it.
http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/a1013478.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=https://www.google.co.uk/
Or just type in recent Islamophobia im Germany. Look for the attack on a Muslim lady in Germany who was pregnant. I believe her name was Ayisha Sherbi or something.
Evidence for the situation Muslims go through in Germany is me myself and my experience. My family who is still living there. Its your choice to believe it or not. You can shut your eyes on this matter. I've lived my life in Germany, born and bred there. Still, getting judged on my hijab everyday. I don't need to exaggerate stuff. Maybe its just that some things are so shocking to believe. Listening to comments like 'Terrorists', 'Auslander' which means an outsider, 'What's that funny thing on your head?' and seeing my mother getting mocked for wearing a hijab and what not.
And your unawareness of the 2 recent attacks in Germany signifies your limited access to the news which is restricted by the media. Its not my problem. Please be up to date with the recent new or search and look for it rather than assuming someone is lying. It will help you in the long term.
And about incompatibility with values and integration, this what I have to say. To assume that every Muslim cannot integrate in the Western society is absolutely a joke. Muslims who are born and bred in Western countries do integrate with the society well. These 3 Muslims who were killed in the Chapel Hill shootings are those who use to give food to the homeless and help them. This is a very crucial act of them which clearly shows that they were good members of the society. Many Muslims in the UK also integrate. We go to the same educational institutions, have British friends, pay tax, take part in various charity activities, are also in the work force, work for the country and do a lot of other things. Asian Muslim population do the work that also help in the economy. Yet, us Muslims in your opinion struggle to integrate. Woah! That's really something, isn't it?
(edited 9 years ago)
This is my honest opinion: While I have no doubt that the original altercation started with the typical neighborly disputes, like noise and parking spot, the fact that these guys were muslims definitely played a part in overly aggravating the killer.
What I'm trying to say is, if these victims were not muslims, I don't think the disputes would have ever resulted in murder. I'm not saying that whites never kill whites or anything like that, but from what I know about these victims, they were educated, polite and seem like the type of people who would avoid confrontation.
I don't think the killer singled them out and planned the killing, but it seems like he definitely had prejudice against them because they were muslims. I don't think this would have ever resulted in murder if their religious identities were not known.
I hope "islamophobia" (the criticism of islam) spreads everywhere to every mind, but "muslim-phobia" MUST stop.
What I'm trying to say is, if these victims were not muslims, I don't think the disputes would have ever resulted in murder. I'm not saying that whites never kill whites or anything like that, but from what I know about these victims, they were educated, polite and seem like the type of people who would avoid confrontation.
I don't think the killer singled them out and planned the killing, but it seems like he definitely had prejudice against them because they were muslims. I don't think this would have ever resulted in murder if their religious identities were not known.
I hope "islamophobia" (the criticism of islam) spreads everywhere to every mind, but "muslim-phobia" MUST stop.
Original post by Hickory Dickory
This is my honest opinion: While I have no doubt that the original altercation started with the typical neighborly disputes, like noise and parking spot, the fact that these guys were muslims definitely played a part in overly aggravating the killer.
What I'm trying to say is, if these victims were not muslims, I don't think the disputes would have ever resulted in murder. I'm not saying that whites never kill whites or anything like that, but from what I know about these victims, they were educated, polite and seem like the type of people who would avoid confrontation.
I don't think the killer singled them out and planned the killing, but it seems like he definitely had prejudice against them because they were muslims. I don't think this would have ever resulted in murder if their religious identities were not known.
I hope "islamophobia" (the criticism of islam) spreads everywhere to every mind, but "muslim-phobia" MUST stop.
What I'm trying to say is, if these victims were not muslims, I don't think the disputes would have ever resulted in murder. I'm not saying that whites never kill whites or anything like that, but from what I know about these victims, they were educated, polite and seem like the type of people who would avoid confrontation.
I don't think the killer singled them out and planned the killing, but it seems like he definitely had prejudice against them because they were muslims. I don't think this would have ever resulted in murder if their religious identities were not known.
I hope "islamophobia" (the criticism of islam) spreads everywhere to every mind, but "muslim-phobia" MUST stop.
Hickory, you brought a tear to my eye.
What has changed in your brain?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Hickory Dickory
This is my honest opinion: While I have no doubt that the original altercation started with the typical neighborly disputes, like noise and parking spot, the fact that these guys were muslims definitely played a part in overly aggravating the killer.
What I'm trying to say is, if these victims were not muslims, I don't think the disputes would have ever resulted in murder. I'm not saying that whites never kill whites or anything like that, but from what I know about these victims, they were educated, polite and seem like the type of people who would avoid confrontation.
I don't think the killer singled them out and planned the killing, but it seems like he definitely had prejudice against them because they were muslims. I don't think this would have ever resulted in murder if their religious identities were not known.
I hope "islamophobia" (the criticism of islam) spreads everywhere to every mind, but "muslim-phobia" MUST stop.
What I'm trying to say is, if these victims were not muslims, I don't think the disputes would have ever resulted in murder. I'm not saying that whites never kill whites or anything like that, but from what I know about these victims, they were educated, polite and seem like the type of people who would avoid confrontation.
I don't think the killer singled them out and planned the killing, but it seems like he definitely had prejudice against them because they were muslims. I don't think this would have ever resulted in murder if their religious identities were not known.
I hope "islamophobia" (the criticism of islam) spreads everywhere to every mind, but "muslim-phobia" MUST stop.
Agreed. Thank you for actually accepting that a Muslim can also be a good human like these ones! I do appreciate the fact that you have clearly defined the distinction between the two things. I mean, right to criticise Islam or any religion, which is acceptable. However, it is wrong to kill someone for them having opposite beliefs than yours.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
It'll help you more if you look for yourself the recent evidence in news. But I don't blame you because most of the time, when a news is concerned with Muslims being victim is either not given enough media coverage or neglected completely. For sure, in Germany, aware of the Dresden protests? If not, search for it.
http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/a1013478.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=https://www.google.co.uk/
Or just type in recent Islamophobia im Germany. Look for the attack on a Muslim lady in Germany who was pregnant. I believe her name was Ayisha Sherbi or something.
http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/a1013478.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=https://www.google.co.uk/
Or just type in recent Islamophobia im Germany. Look for the attack on a Muslim lady in Germany who was pregnant. I believe her name was Ayisha Sherbi or something.
You've not provided any of the evidence I requested. I am aware of the protests in Dresden, but that does not support any of your claims.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
Evidence for the situation Muslims go through in Germany is me myself and my experience. My family who is still living there. Its your choice to believe it or not. You can shut your eyes on this matter. I've lived my life in Germany, born and bred there. Still, getting judged on my hijab everyday.
Still no evidence, just paranoid ramblings. Your claims are simply not supported.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
I don't need to exaggerate stuff. Maybe its just that some things are so shocking to believe. Listening to comments like 'Terrorists', 'Auslander' which means an outsider, 'What's that funny thing on your head?' and seeing my mother getting mocked for wearing a hijab and what not.
See above.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
And your unawareness of the 2 recent attacks in Germany is your limited access to the news which is restricted by the media. Its not my problem. Please be up to date with the recent new or search and look for it rather than assuming someone is lying. It will help you in the long term.
2 attacks do not constitute the flood of attacks, persecution and levels of fear you keep claiming exist. My media access is not restricted at all, what a ridiculous claim. Instead of providing me with evidence such as law enforcement stats or parliamentary investigations you just ramble.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
And about incompatibility with values and integration, this what I have to say. To assume that every Muslim cannot integrate in the Western society is absolutely a joke.
I never said they couldn't? I know numerous people who have...
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
Muslims who are born and bred in Western countries do integrate with the society well.
I don't really think that can be said to be entirely accurate. The majority do I think, but there is a substantial minority who live very separate lives and do not have anything to do with the other religions/cultures existing in the country. This is why most European countries have an issue with ghetto-like areas which are increasingly mono-cultural.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
These 3 Muslims who were killed in the Chapel Hill shootings are those who use to give food to the homeless and help them. This is a very crucial act of them which clearly shows that they are good members of the society.
Well no, it doesn't. I'm all for giving food to the homeless, but you don't automatically become a "good member of society" by doing it. Naturally I approve of their charity work though.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
Many Muslims in the UK also integrate. We go to the same educational institutions, have British friends, pay tax, take part in various charity activities, are also in the work force, work for the country and do a lot of other things.
Indeed many do. But in some areas of Britain there is nobody left to integrate with as the areas have become mono-cultural. You make the point of educational institutions- in Tower Hamlets there are schools that are almost entirely muslim because of the extent of Bangladeshi movement into some of the wards of Tower Hamlets. That is not integrating.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
Asian Muslim population do the work that also help in the economy. Yet, us Muslims in your opinion struggle to integrate. Woah! That's really something, isn't it?
I've never claimed muslims don't work? You make a lot of bizarre assumptions about what I think about muslims.
I think the majority of ordinary people would accept that some sections of the muslim community have struggled or in some instances refused, to integrate. Most have done so, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore the ongoing problem that some simply haven't.
I look forward to some EVIDENCE in your response.
Original post by Hickory Dickory
This is my honest opinion: While I have no doubt that the original altercation started with the typical neighborly disputes, like noise and parking spot, the fact that these guys were muslims definitely played a part in overly aggravating the killer.
What I'm trying to say is, if these victims were not muslims, I don't think the disputes would have ever resulted in murder. I'm not saying that whites never kill whites or anything like that, but from what I know about these victims, they were educated, polite and seem like the type of people who would avoid confrontation.
I don't think the killer singled them out and planned the killing, but it seems like he definitely had prejudice against them because they were muslims. I don't think this would have ever resulted in murder if their religious identities were not known.
I hope "islamophobia" (the criticism of islam) spreads everywhere to every mind, but "muslim-phobia" MUST stop.
What I'm trying to say is, if these victims were not muslims, I don't think the disputes would have ever resulted in murder. I'm not saying that whites never kill whites or anything like that, but from what I know about these victims, they were educated, polite and seem like the type of people who would avoid confrontation.
I don't think the killer singled them out and planned the killing, but it seems like he definitely had prejudice against them because they were muslims. I don't think this would have ever resulted in murder if their religious identities were not known.
I hope "islamophobia" (the criticism of islam) spreads everywhere to every mind, but "muslim-phobia" MUST stop.
How can you possibly conclude this? There's nothing to base the conclusion that it was religiously motivated on.
Original post by missfats
I don't know why you would say that because I don't think I have ever advocated violence or even condoned violence on anyone solely because of their beliefs. That is the very thing I'm against. I have my issues with islam (and other religions), but I will not preach nor accept hate based on beliefs.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
Agreed. Thank you for actually accepting that a Muslim can also be a good human like these ones! I do appreciate the fact that you have clearly defined the distinction between the two things. I mean, right to criticise Islam or any religion, which is acceptable. However, it is wrong to kill someone for them having opposite beliefs than yours.
Yes, I absolutely agree.
Original post by jenkinsear
You've not provided any of the evidence I requested. I am aware of the protests in Dresden, but that does not support any of your claims.
Still no evidence, just paranoid ramblings. Your claims are simply not supported.
See above.
2 attacks do not constitute the flood of attacks, persecution and levels of fear you keep claiming exist. My media access is not restricted at all, what a ridiculous claim. Instead of providing me with evidence such as law enforcement stats or parliamentary investigations you just ramble.
I never said they couldn't? I know numerous people who have...
I don't really think that can be said to be entirely accurate. The majority do I think, but there is a substantial minority who live very separate lives and do not have anything to do with the other religions/cultures existing in the country. This is why most European countries have an issue with ghetto-like areas which are increasingly mono-cultural.
Well no, it doesn't. I'm all for giving food to the homeless, but you don't automatically become a "good member of society" by doing it. Naturally I approve of their charity work though.
Indeed many do. But in some areas of Britain there is nobody left to integrate with as the areas have become mono-cultural. You make the point of educational institutions- in Tower Hamlets there are schools that are almost entirely muslim because of the extent of Bangladeshi movement into some of the wards of Tower Hamlets. That is not integrating.
I've never claimed muslims don't work? You make a lot of bizarre assumptions about what I think about muslims.
I think the majority of ordinary people would accept that some sections of the muslim community have struggled or in some instances refused, to integrate. Most have done so, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore the ongoing problem that some simply haven't.
I look forward to some EVIDENCE in your response.
Still no evidence, just paranoid ramblings. Your claims are simply not supported.
See above.
2 attacks do not constitute the flood of attacks, persecution and levels of fear you keep claiming exist. My media access is not restricted at all, what a ridiculous claim. Instead of providing me with evidence such as law enforcement stats or parliamentary investigations you just ramble.
I never said they couldn't? I know numerous people who have...
I don't really think that can be said to be entirely accurate. The majority do I think, but there is a substantial minority who live very separate lives and do not have anything to do with the other religions/cultures existing in the country. This is why most European countries have an issue with ghetto-like areas which are increasingly mono-cultural.
Well no, it doesn't. I'm all for giving food to the homeless, but you don't automatically become a "good member of society" by doing it. Naturally I approve of their charity work though.
Indeed many do. But in some areas of Britain there is nobody left to integrate with as the areas have become mono-cultural. You make the point of educational institutions- in Tower Hamlets there are schools that are almost entirely muslim because of the extent of Bangladeshi movement into some of the wards of Tower Hamlets. That is not integrating.
I've never claimed muslims don't work? You make a lot of bizarre assumptions about what I think about muslims.
I think the majority of ordinary people would accept that some sections of the muslim community have struggled or in some instances refused, to integrate. Most have done so, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore the ongoing problem that some simply haven't.
I look forward to some EVIDENCE in your response.
So without arguing, let me provide you the evidence of the recent rise in Islamophobia. My own experience is not sufficient enough, so here we go.
http://www.dw.de/german-muslim-council-warns-of-rise-in-anti-islam-attacks/a-18212721
http://m.thenational.ae/news/world/europe/germans-more-hostile-to-muslims-than-other-western-europeans
http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/blame-muslims-islamophobia-fuelled-government-and-media-877365178
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/moroccan-man-in-france-killed-at-home-in-front-of-wife-by-intruder-shouting-about-islam-9985072.html
The last 2 are a must read.
Enough with the evidence now. You can now choose to either acknowledge the fact that there is a increase in Islamophobia in the West, which is leading to incidents like Chapel Hill shootings or else shut your eyes.
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
So without arguing, let me provide you the evidence of the recent rise in Islamophobia. My own experience is not sufficient enough, so here we go.
http://www.dw.de/german-muslim-council-warns-of-rise-in-anti-islam-attacks/a-18212721
http://m.thenational.ae/news/world/europe/germans-more-hostile-to-muslims-than-other-western-europeans
http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/blame-muslims-islamophobia-fuelled-government-and-media-877365178
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/moroccan-man-in-france-killed-at-home-in-front-of-wife-by-intruder-shouting-about-islam-9985072.html
The last 2 are a must read.
Enough with the evidence now. You can now choose to either acknowledge the fact that there is a increase in Islamophobia in the West, which is leading to incidents like Chapel Hill shootings or else shut your eyes.
http://www.dw.de/german-muslim-council-warns-of-rise-in-anti-islam-attacks/a-18212721
http://m.thenational.ae/news/world/europe/germans-more-hostile-to-muslims-than-other-western-europeans
http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/blame-muslims-islamophobia-fuelled-government-and-media-877365178
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/moroccan-man-in-france-killed-at-home-in-front-of-wife-by-intruder-shouting-about-islam-9985072.html
The last 2 are a must read.
Enough with the evidence now. You can now choose to either acknowledge the fact that there is a increase in Islamophobia in the West, which is leading to incidents like Chapel Hill shootings or else shut your eyes.
None of those links prove any of your claims. You seem to really struggle with the idea that a news report of something bad happening isn't the same as "OMG ISLAMOPHOBIA EVERYWHERE!"
It's still not been established that religion was behind the Chapel Hill shootings. I don't see why everyone just assumes it is.
Original post by jenkinsear
How can you possibly conclude this? There's nothing to base the conclusion that it was religiously motivated on.
I do not think that the shooting was religiously motivated.
Let me clarify. The Charlie Hebdo shooting was religiously motivated. The killers singled out the victims because some of their actions were not in accordance with islam. So, the killers decided that (in their mind) the islamiic thing to do was to kill them.
But I do think the Chapel Hill killer was upset at the muslims because he hated islam, and that played a part in making an otherwise domestic dispute into a horrific tragedy. I base this opinion on what I've learned about the victims, that they were extremely caring, educated and polite, I do not see them picking or continue a fight with the killer just 'cause. There was something that pushed the killer over the edge, and I think it's his prejudice against the victims, unfortunately.
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