Subfusc: Yay or Nay?

Does that really make up for a decade of high-quality teaching? From what I've heard from people on this website, it depends on what private school you go to. If you go to a mediocre private school then sure, Oxford's state-school support probably does put you on equal standing but I doubt that's the case if you go to a really good private school. Looking at the facilities students have at a very good independent school near me and some of the teachers they have, even with Oxford's access schemes, I still think they have a major advantage.

I don't know where people get this weird belief that private schools always offer "high quality teaching" or have a massive advantage when it comes to Oxbridge admission. Having seen the system from the applicant, student and postgrad doing a bit of teaching on the side perspective, it just isn't true as a blanket rule. There are some individual schools where I accept it's almost incredible how well they know and use the system, but they are not just private schools. Plus not all (or even the majority) private schools at all fall into that category.

There is always a small cohort in Oxford who adopt the "state school martyr" obsession though about how "disadvantaged" they've been and how private schools/anything "elitist" are evil though. Every few years the names and faces change, but it's always there in one form or another. I believe the current bunch are trying to get sub fusc removed as compulsory for exams/matriculation because it's apparently elitist and puts people off applying to Oxford. Delusional nutters....

I don't really understand why you're calling people who want to get rid of sub fusc "delusional nutters". I can not understand the argument for it.

If you like it, wonderful, nobody's stopping you from wearing it. But don't impose some stupid dress code on everyone.

Exams are insanely stressful times already, the last thing I need is to be forced to go into the exam wearing a stupid suit.

There is literally zero point in making it compulsory - if you don't make it compulsory, nobody is saying you can't wear a suit any more if you want to.

It just means that people who don't want to - including people who would get more stressed by it - don't have to. The sooner they get rid of these traditions, the better.

I think I can see a future member of aforementioned group


If you do not like the dress code, apply elsewhere. Hundreds of years of tradition should not be dispensed with because of a few extreme left wing malcontents not liking it. Oxford has a number of wonderful traditions, sub fusc being one of them.




Having actually sat exams at Oxford, I would say wearing sub fusc was actually quite calming for me. I never heard anyone complain once about having to wear sub fusc before any of the sets of exams I ever sat; if anything people tended to like the fact that everyone went in looking the same and you didn't need to worry about what to wear. Others have said (be it to me or in articles defending sub fusc) that it gives them a sense of confidence, whilst some simply like the fact they are taking part in an ancient tradition which every member of the university is a part of regardless of background or College.

If wearing a gown or bow tie/ribbon stresses you out so much, I would contend you have some quite serious issues and that Oxford as a place may be unsuitable for you and your well being.




You are displaying your ignorance of the issue. Sub fusc is already compulsory. The fear is that if it is made optional it may die out as people fear being one of a minority wearing it, or being associated with being old fashioned or "unliberal". The last university referendum saw a massive majority vote to maintain it; I suspect and hope this one will show the same.




As mentioned above, if wearing an item of clothing or two is that challenging for people then perhaps they should re-evaluate their choice of university and whether they will be able to deal with the pressure of going there.

You say "the sooner they get rid of these traditions, the better"- I genuinely feel quite sorry for you that you have such a narrow, unappreciative view of Oxford's history and the value many see in its traditions. I do not hesitate in suggesting that if you have such a truly negative view that you would probably find yourself happier going to another university, perhaps one with no history/traditions/soul.

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I don't really understand why you're calling people who want to get rid of sub fusc "delusional nutters". I can not understand the argument for it. If you like it, wonderful, nobody's stopping you from wearing it. But don't impose some stupid dress code on everyone. Exams are insanely stressful times already, the last thing I need is to be forced to go into the exam wearing a stupid suit. There is literally zero point in making it compulsory - if you don't make it compulsory, nobody is saying you can't wear a suit any more if you want to. It just means that people who don't want to - including people who would get more stressed by it - don't have to. The sooner they get rid of these traditions, the better.

I can see why some people dislike subfusc being compulsory, but personally, having done two sets of exams, I honestly didn't feel that having to wear subfusc made it any more stressful. In fact, I'm a bit like jenkinsear - having to put on subfusc every morning helped put me into the 'exam mentality'.

That said, I do like the quirky traditions in general; I feel that it contributes to Oxford's charm and a sense of tradition.

I think I can see a future member of aforementioned group

If you do not like the dress code, apply elsewhere. Hundreds of years of tradition should not be dispensed with because of a few extreme left wing malcontents not liking it. Oxford has a number of wonderful traditions, sub fusc being one of them.

Having actually sat exams at Oxford, I would say wearing sub fusc was actually quite calming for me. I never heard anyone complain once about having to wear sub fusc before any of the sets of exams I ever sat; if anything people tended to like the fact that everyone went in looking the same and you didn't need to worry about what to wear. Others have said (be it to me or in articles defending sub fusc) that it gives them a sense of confidence, whilst some simply like the fact they are taking part in an ancient tradition which every member of the university is a part of regardless of background or College.

If wearing a gown or bow tie/ribbon stresses you out so much, I would contend you have some quite serious issues and that Oxford as a place may be unsuitable for you and your well being.

You are displaying your ignorance of the issue. Sub fusc is already compulsory. The fear is that if it is made optional it may die out as people fear being one of a minority wearing it, or being associated with being old fashioned or "unliberal". The last university referendum saw a massive majority vote to maintain it; I suspect and hope this one will show the same.

As mentioned above, if wearing an item of clothing or two is that challenging for people then perhaps they should re-evaluate their choice of university and whether they will be able to deal with the pressure of going there.

You say "the sooner they get rid of these traditions, the better"- I genuinely feel quite sorry for you that you have such a narrow, unappreciative view of Oxford's history and the value many see in its traditions. I do not hesitate in suggesting that if you have such a truly negative view that you would probably find yourself happier going to another university, perhaps one with no history/traditions/soul.

Just because something works for you, doesn't mean it works for everyone else. If putting on subfusc helps you get into an exam mentality, wear it. Nobody's saying they should ban it, just that it shouldn't be made compulsory. You like quirky traditions, not everyone else does.




I can't believe how arrogant and selfish you are. So far, I've had an incredibly positive experience of Oxford, I've not come across anyone with bigoted views like yourself. "Deal with it or don't apply" - what kind of a mentality is that? Oxford is a university. It's an academic institution, not some exclusive social club. It is absolutely crazy that in the 21st Century, a university is forcing adults to wear a bizarre dress code in exams. I already think that's silly enough in schools, it's beyond me how adults are more than happy to accept those rules being imposed on themselves.

Your argument basically distils down to - it's a tradition, I like it, anyone who doesn't can **** off. It's beyond me how you can think that's a pleasant mentality to have. Cambridge got rid of it, I don't understand why Oxonians are still childishly clinging on to the past, as if that's an admirable thing to do. You're saying that if subfusc isn't made compulsory, it'll die out - is that basically not the same thing as saying that people don't actually want it? If people wouldn't wear it if they had the choice, why are you trying to make it compulsory? On top of that, you really don't know anything about my personal situation so I'd really rather you don't make recommendations like I don't go to the university just because I've got a problem with their traditions. I've got enough stress as it is, I really do not need this...

Just because something works for you, doesn't mean it works for everyone else. If putting on subfusc helps you get into an exam mentality, wear it. Nobody's saying they should ban it, just that it shouldn't be made compulsory. You like quirky traditions, not everyone else does.

What is the actual physical problem with subfusc? Is it uncomfortable or something? I come from a pretty poor background and a crap state school, for that matter, and I couldn't care less about what I'd have to sit exams in. If anything, it removes the extra worry of finding other clothes to wear during exam stress.

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Well that depends on how well fitted your suit/skirt etc is

Ah so is it specially tailored or do you buy a ready size?

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Soooo, in the context of exams does wearing subfusc just mean having to wear a suit? Or does it also include having to wear your gown (and cap?)? And use a quill pen?

What is the actual physical problem with subfusc? Is it uncomfortable or something? I come from a pretty poor background and a crap state school, for that matter, and I couldn't care less about what I'd have to sit exams in. If anything, it removes the extra worry of finding other clothes to wear during exam stress.

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Subfusc is just the dark coloured clothing that you wear under your gown, so a suit that you own or buy yourself, shoes and a black or white bow tie/black regular tie. The gown you wear on top is normally bought in Oxford and goes on height, and the cap goes on your head size - although nobody really wears them, just carries them around.

Ah so you can just wear your own comfy suit?

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If wearing a gown or bow tie/ribbon stresses you out so much, I would contend you have some quite serious issues and that Oxford as a place may be unsuitable for you and your well being.

[...] if wearing an item of clothing or two is that challenging for people then perhaps they should re-evaluate their choice of university and whether they will be able to deal with the pressure of going there.