The Student Room Group

How would you change the school system? (debate)

(Firstly would get rid of school uniform but there is a whole other thread for that:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2808605)

I would make exams a standard for all students grade boundary from A*- G so if a student didn't really take part in lessons or try unless it mattered so seemed unintelligent but actually had ability they could acheave good marks when they had to it really pissed me off when I could only get like a D (yes that was the highest grade on that paper) in maths or a C in some other subjects (I am now a engineer so you can see why it annoyed me)

Secondly I would make it a requirement that student s either took an industry course like moter vehicle study or some kind of training that could lead to a job like sports coaching..

also the science exam would have a practical element along with other courses like Food tech and the engineering disciplines such as electronics or metal work .how about you?
(edited 8 years ago)

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make it more inclusive generally: let kids move up sets if they improve rather than keeping them in the same sets throughout school, more choice in pe so individual sports if you arent good at team sports and no more gymnastics.
Original post by claireestelle
make it more inclusive generally: let kids move up sets if they improve rather than keeping them in the same sets throughout school, more choice in pe so individual sports if you arent good at team sports and no more gymnastics.


yep agree I was top in science and they wouldn't move me up from foundation despite getting A's in all the class assignments and tests and 80% minimum in all GCSE past papers after the SAT in year 9 (you know to see where we were.
I don't really have a problem with school uniforms but if I were to make one change to the education system it would probably be this;

1. All students should learn by themselves using online resources such as Khan Academy.

2. So any problems or topics that they become stuck on they can ask their teachers at school to help them

I say this because I feel like most of my teachers are really bad at teaching.
Original post by jonathanemptage
yep agree I was top in science and they wouldn't move me up from foundation despite getting A's in all the class assignments and tests and 80% minimum in all GCSE past papers after the SAT in year 9 (you know to see where we were.


i did really well in science for a whole year but they only moved me when i got 98% in an exam so they couldnt say no.
Ban private and grammar schools and stream people into classes of different 'ability' for each subject. But also make it possible for pupils to move up classes if they work hard. This would be determined by an end-of-year assessment every year from Year 7 to Year 11.

This isn't perfect but it will help reduce parental wealth being such an overwhelming determiner of a child's academic success.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by guntby
Ban private and grammar schools and stream people into classes of different 'ability' for each subject. But also make it possible for pupils to move up classes if they work hard. This would be determined by an end-of-year assessment every year from Year 7 to Year 11.

This isn't perfect but it will help reduce parental wealth being such an overwhelming determiner of a child's academic success.


So rather than working out how to improve education for the lower classes, you want to worsen education for the upper classes? Leftists gonna left
Reply 7
This is not a fully planned structure, I do not work in education and have little theoretical knowledge of how to impart education to others, so this is really no more than musings.

The school/ further education systems appears to have difficulties as one size does not fit all. Some pupils wish to follow a more academic pathway, and society, expectations etc has pushed a far greater proportion down the school-university path, for some I believe this does not play to either their strengths or what they possibly ultimately want.

With this in mind I would consider trying to construct an education system that was far more integrated in its ability to deliver both academic and vocational paths.

Attempts to deliver vocational education have in the past involved pupils leaving their schools at say 16 to step on to this different pathway to vocational training, I would prefer to see a system where they could, to a degree, pursue both academic and vocational pathways at the same time, without requiring to move institution leaving their friends, staff who know them etc. I would also wish to see options for vocational training available far earlier, say at fourteen, there are a number of pupils whose education between the ages of 14-16 just does not deliver, if they have little interest in school during this age band it can be difficult to reignite motivation later.

So, how to deliver.

Not all schools can deliver all subjects, the requirements of space, teaching and resources makes this a mere utopian dream re unlimited choice. But certainly in urban areas the idea of grouping schools in clusters where each delivers core subjects and each also has their niche areas of expertise appeals.

Timetabling could be arranged that certain days were for delivery of core subjects, all pupils would take these, my list would cover English, Arithmetic , PE, possibly basic maths (to be considered) etc. The pupils attend their main school on these days. On the other days the option subjects would be delivered and within these I would wish to see far more vocational subjects e.g. car mechanics, joinery, hairdressing, office admin and so on. Children then attend whichever cluster school/ schools offers that option.

To take the example re car mechanics, this would be delivered via a joint workshop approach and appropriate lessons. So say electrical fault tracking would cover some of the topics currently covered in physics re electrical circuits, all the W=VI, V=IR etc are required, but taught in a real life situation using meters, test lamps etc. This can at a more advanced stage extend to computer diagnostics.

The key advantages I see are:

Pupils get to try before they buy, so to speak. There is scope to switch to another skill if the experience does not match the expectation.

Other subjects are integrated within the practical subjects.

Pupils who develop at different rates have the ability to continue to learn academic subjects at the same time, integrated switching is simpler.

Pupils get to stay, at least in part, with their school friends/ staff who know them.

The schools delivering the niche offerings can establish close links with local FE colleges and Universities re their niche, possibly with guest staff coming into the schools etc. Links with local employers can also be arranged.

The school system does not have the divisive issue re the old two stream- grammar/ secondary modern, pupils remain within the cluster and can therefore change the pathway they are following .

Now I appreciate this needs more thought, there are no doubt a number of holes and provision in rural areas may , due to limited number of local schools, mean choices are restricted, but it would mean that skilled trades/technicians numbers might possibly increase .

How you would fit the courses into a qualification framework I have no real ideas, however unless something is done to better integrate schools/ FE/Universities, and dispel the quasi us and them divides, pupils will continue to make education choices for the wrong reasons.
Schools aren't the main problem; it is the culture here that is the problem. We don't live to learn from a young age unless our parents (or guardians) cultivate that atmosphere at home.

Teachers are hampered by the unwillingness of students to learn because of that issue and others such as bureaucracy.
Reply 9
Make exams modular again, but regulate resists
Make exams longer and harder, which are more strenuous (slowly being seen)
Increase multiple choice questions (which is being seen in the new a-level specifications)
Increase the amount of written exams needed, testing more knowledge before awarding a qualification
Scrap multiple exam boards, but incorporate different choices for schools e.g. topics to teach
Make Core 1 (AS) a GCSE module in maths
Keep 'controlled assessments' but introduce them with stricter controls, like what was seen in previous AS science specifications (for OCR anyway)
Make it so tests can determine sets and ability, preventing people ending up in the 'loop hole' of bottom set classes, unable to escape]
Give us optional study leave, letting us go to our lessons contact our teachers freely, but work at home or give resources in school to work. Our school didn't give study leave, and every lesson in the run up to exams consisted of people talking about random stuff, or how much revision they had/need/hadn't done.
LET BOYS WEAR SHORTS
(edited 8 years ago)
- Employ qualified teachers.
- Decrease class sizes for better learning and support (in most state schools class sizes are way too big).
- Allow students to change sets freely based on peformance. More support for bottom sets, such as after/before school tutoring.
- Teachers should be trained on how to deal with classroom disruption quickly and effectively, as it is a problem on the rise. (Average of 1 hour a day of learning is lost as a result of disruption)
- ICT should be updated with technology to improve understanding with modern day teachnology.
- School uniforms aren't necessary, students should be allowed to wear anything with dress codes such as no inappropiate shirts, tank tops, short skirts etc.
- Schools should do more for students who are struggling to socialise or are getting bullied to prevent suicide because most of the times the parents can't pick up what is wrong with their child.
- Sex education should be taught at an early age to prevent teenage pregnancies and needs for abortion. Especially about contraception, very important. (For example, I think it is Norway or Netherlands who do that, I apologise if I got that wrong but one of these countries near us do that)
- From an early age it should be compulsory to teach RS in schools, this is usually the time they might be brainwashed by media or parents so we can prevent this by teaching it in school and decrease discrimination and increase understanding of different cultures/religions.
- The very best head teachers should be enforced in deprived areas to prevent schools being shut down.
- Ofsted inspections should be suprise and not in advance. This is for them to see the true colours and see what faults are in the school, if done in advance, teachers can change their lessons into something adequate for the inspection and students can bribed. (It happens)
- A/C should be fitted in all classrooms in school, if not, shut school down immediately! (not joking, personal experience espcially at these times of he year)
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by MrMackyTv
- E
- School uniforms aren't necessary, students should be allowed to wear anything with dress codes such as no inappropiate shirts, tank tops, short skirts etc.


This also if this is implemented you could let people dress weather appropriate like last Wednesday for instance I felt so sorry for school students they must have been roasting in a school uniform.
Get rid of free education and those who are unable to pay the fees can receive financial support from the government
What's wrong with school uniform?? I loved it!!
Emphasize understanding the material rather than memorizing it. A number of exam questions are simply a case of reciting what you read in the textbook (useless), rather than being able to apply it on paper (encourages analytical thinking).
Original post by claireestelle
make it more inclusive generally: let kids move up sets if they improve rather than keeping them in the same sets throughout school, more choice in pe so individual sports if you arent good at team sports and no more gymnastics.


Strongly agree with this. Was in second to top set for English and science and top set for maths. The difference in teaching and learning was huge between the sets as we got better teaches, people in the top sets want to learn and the learning environment is generally better in the top set.

I also think it would help encourage those in the top sets to work hard to maintain their position in the top set and those in the sets below to move up sets.
Original post by DJKL
This is not a fully planned structure, I do not work in education and have little theoretical knowledge of how to impart education to others, so this is really no more than musings.

The school/ further education systems appears to have difficulties as one size does not fit all. Some pupils wish to follow a more academic pathway, and society, expectations etc has pushed a far greater proportion down the school-university path, for some I believe this does not play to either their strengths or what they possibly ultimately want.

With this in mind I would consider trying to construct an education system that was far more integrated in its ability to deliver both academic and vocational paths.

Attempts to deliver vocational education have in the past involved pupils leaving their schools at say 16 to step on to this different pathway to vocational training, I would prefer to see a system where they could, to a degree, pursue both academic and vocational pathways at the same time, without requiring to move institution leaving their friends, staff who know them etc. I would also wish to see options for vocational training available far earlier, say at fourteen, there are a number of pupils whose education between the ages of 14-16 just does not deliver, if they have little interest in school during this age band it can be difficult to reignite motivation later.

So, how to deliver.

Not all schools can deliver all subjects, the requirements of space, teaching and resources makes this a mere utopian dream re unlimited choice. But certainly in urban areas the idea of grouping schools in clusters where each delivers core subjects and each also has their niche areas of expertise appeals.

Timetabling could be arranged that certain days were for delivery of core subjects, all pupils would take these, my list would cover English, Arithmetic , PE, possibly basic maths (to be considered) etc. The pupils attend their main school on these days. On the other days the option subjects would be delivered and within these I would wish to see far more vocational subjects e.g. car mechanics, joinery, hairdressing, office admin and so on. Children then attend whichever cluster school/ schools offers that option.

To take the example re car mechanics, this would be delivered via a joint workshop approach and appropriate lessons. So say electrical fault tracking would cover some of the topics currently covered in physics re electrical circuits, all the W=VI, V=IR etc are required, but taught in a real life situation using meters, test lamps etc. This can at a more advanced stage extend to computer diagnostics.

The key advantages I see are:

Pupils get to try before they buy, so to speak. There is scope to switch to another skill if the experience does not match the expectation.

Other subjects are integrated within the practical subjects.

Pupils who develop at different rates have the ability to continue to learn academic subjects at the same time, integrated switching is simpler.

Pupils get to stay, at least in part, with their school friends/ staff who know them.

The schools delivering the niche offerings can establish close links with local FE colleges and Universities re their niche, possibly with guest staff coming into the schools etc. Links with local employers can also be arranged.

The school system does not have the divisive issue re the old two stream- grammar/ secondary modern, pupils remain within the cluster and can therefore change the pathway they are following .

Now I appreciate this needs more thought, there are no doubt a number of holes and provision in rural areas may , due to limited number of local schools, mean choices are restricted, but it would mean that skilled trades/technicians numbers might possibly increase .

How you would fit the courses into a qualification framework I have no real ideas, however unless something is done to better integrate schools/ FE/Universities, and dispel the quasi us and them divides, pupils will continue to make education choices for the wrong reasons.


My old school used to do this. The bottom set students could opt to do vocational work instead of picking extra GCSE's.
Reply 17
Original post by aliman65
My old school used to do this. The bottom set students could opt to do vocational work instead of picking extra GCSE's.


I would want something far more structured with a good range of vocational courses, which would require a group of schools to have the necessary space and staff and trade/industry specialists.

Machine shops, auto mechanics, auto bodyshops, fitted hairdressing salons, equipment for clothes manufacturing, printing equipment, design offices with cad and 3d workshops and architectural technician facilities, fully fitted offices etc. You could have a construction department whose students built additional premises/workshops for the others. You could even sell some of the output/services with the admin/office department dealing with all paperwork and accounting.

The idea is to combine the practical with the theoretical, your designers/architectural tech s dealing with design, your construction building the others later occupying. There is say a fair bit of physics in designing a building, all the forces need calculated and checked, the materials used, their strengths and weights need considered, composition of the ground, its structure, required foundations etc; it is not just a matter of drawing a picture.

It is of course a health and safety nightmare, there would be no place for pupils who do not do what they are told, supervision and training would be key, so offer access to these as the carrot have sin bins as the stick- however just because something is difficult does not mean it ought not to be considered. It allows pupils to gain far more realistic experience whilst reinforcing the lesson that basic arithmetic, maths and a command of english is essential to most occupations.

Our society at times seems to consider that at say 14 pupils cannot be responsible, this is nonsense; my Grandfather left school at 14 and started work. Age 14 I helped out on a fish farm, building the breeding tanks (the business was owned by the father of a friend) We used small diggers, barrows, mesh for the concrete, bolted and sealed the tank sides, poured levelled /sloped the concrete; in exchange I got free fishing on the loch. Proper supervision need not make actually working at 14 dangerous.

What I want to see is an integrated education system, connected from primary to secondary, to training to FE without stigma that one path is somehow "better" than another.

(They can also stop testing and measuring everything in sight and actually spend a bit more time actually teaching)
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by minor bun engine
So rather than working out how to improve education for the lower classes, you want to worsen education for the upper classes? Leftists gonna left


No, what I'm offering is fair system for clever, average and stupid children, without the black and white state and grammar school division. Class has nothing to do with it because you can be rich and stupid and you can be poor and clever.
Reply 19
I do not know anything about the science of non-verbal thinking but anecdotally, my very best ideas (in science and even in story-plotting) came to me non-verbally. It makes me think we are missing out on something really important by focusing so much time on "the three Rs" and factual learning at the expense of non-verbal areas of learning.

So I would teach, to a very high standard*: Drawing (through careful observation), Music (playing, notation by ear, theory and composition), Engineering and Programming (Arduino), Sports (Fitness and Game Intelligence) and Strategy Games (Chess, Go, Bridge, and maybe war games). In primary school and years 7 and 8 I'd give two thirds of the timetable over to these subjects. After that I'd reduce it to one third of the timetable but let pupils specialise (in a practical subject; academic specialisation would only come much later).

*Though tbh if you can't teach these subjects to a very high standard it probably wouldn't be worth it. It's more of a pipe dream.
(edited 8 years ago)

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