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babyballerina
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#41
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(Original post by sublime_envy)
WTF? Where exactly do you go on holidays? And what is that bull about not feeling safe because you are English. That is utter *******s and I think you should stop misleading people thank you very much.

I think you will find that Scotland and England are seperate on a lot of issues but as SamTheMan stated that is because of their differing policies and the way Scotland moves almost independently. So please do not spout utter ******** without knowing what you are talking about. We are not big giant ginger monsters who hate the english. We are just like the English. Everyone looks out for their best interests, but there will always be a divide.
I think this post proves you are exactly the kind of aggressive Scottish Nationalist who makes me avoid Scotland.
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Acaila
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(Original post by Lee86)
Inferiority complex........ poor misunderstood, underachieving neighbours
We achieve in other ways. Football isn't everything . And please do bear in mind when saying we're crap at football, we are a really titchy country with only 5 million people. Mind you we do have a terrible team .

(Original post by Lee86)
I dont think its that England dont have a national identity but that it is viewed upon as wrong to show it.....some times seen as big headed and sumtimes even rasist ?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Very true. The English national identity seems to have been hijacked by the BNP etc. Although there seems to have been a large positive display of said identity lately with the Euro championships.

(Original post by NDGAARONDI)
Many Scots just can't get over the fact that they are under our mercy since 1707.
Actually it was our king that took over your country, so technically you've been under our mercy since 1603.

(Original post by danithestudent)
Because scottish people have ginger hair and they are jealous of the brits for having brown and blonde hair.
No? Nah, I dunno they just hate us.

They were talking about making a United Kingdom football team, but what Scot would turn up to watch ten English men and Ryan Giggs?
Probably quite a lot. We'd be very happy to support a national team that did well. It would probably do a lot to help ease relations and I think if it happened you'd be surprised at how much Scottish support would be behind it.
We don't hate you at all. We just don't love you completely as it often feels you want us to.


(Original post by babyballerina)
I think there has been a BIG rise in Scottish nationalism in recent years. i grew up in northern England and we didn't have any money to go abroad so my family always went on holiday in Scotland, only a short drive from home. It has changed so much. It has become common for English people to be refused service in bars and restaurants for example, just because they are English. Not in Edinbrugh (never been to Glasgow.) but in smaller towns, all the time. Blatent open hatred. I don't go there anymore. I don't feel safe or welcome. I think if they feel so strongly that they hate the English, we should just cut Scotland loose. Tell them to p*$$ off. They are massively over represented in parliament (Scottish MPs can makes laws in England, but not vice versa.), plus they have better schools and hospitals because they get an unfair share of tax paid by the English! Don't even get me started on the university tuition fees thing! So I say good riddance!
I'm honestly sorry to hear of your experiences and I want to say that we're not all like that. I must admit I have heard several stories of the like. However such people do seem to be in the minority, and it does seem to be in certain areas. The vast majority of Scottish people do not hate the English.
We are also not massively overly represented in parliament. Scotland's parliament only makes decisions on certain issues, e.g. education as the Scottish education system is vastly different. So it's better that it gets dealt with in Scotland, rather than ignored in England. Wheras issues that affect the whole of the UK, e.g. the Euro constitution, are voted on by a parliament of MPs from all the countries of the UK. Under this system, England should probably have it's own parliament, but the whole reason for the Welsh assembly and the Scottish parliament was that it's mainly English issues dealt with at Westminster.
And please do cut us loose. Give us independence and we'll happily bugger off out of your parliament. As an independent country we wouldn't have to have debates like this.

The daft thing is, if England were knocked out, I'd love to see Scotland or Wales (or even, at a slightly longer stretch, Ireland) do well and support them as they are the home nations. Sometimes I get the feeling though that some Scots would prefer England not to win anything than to qualify for any major tournament. This strangeness exists all across sport though (in a local situation for me, Castleford fans hate Leeds but most Leeds fans would name Castleford as their second team). Unless a Scot can come on here and give me a better reason why they won't support England yet I'll support Scotland and Wales, I'd have to put it down to jealousy.
It's nice to hear you say that. However I think, as a lot of Scots do, that just because we're beside a country, doesn't mean we are obliged to support them. In Euro 2004 for instance, I'm supporting France, Sweden and Holland, for various reasons (and not because France beat England, although I must admit I relished that game, or at least the end of it). Just because we're neighbours, doesn't bind us to eternal Beckham worshipping (or Rooney, or whoever's still in the collective goodbooks). And the idea that it does pushes more Scots away, festering more resentment.

(Original post by SamTheMan)
Wales v Ireland was the first ever international match
Wasn't it England versus Scotland?

(Original post by Zapsta)
Sibling rivalry.
Probably is. Look at league football. Teams close to one another are more likely to be rivals than support each other. Why it is expected to be different at international level? Just because the Eurovision song contest is supposedly like that?

(Original post by Sophetta)
Do you think it is fair that scottish students going to uni in England after top up fees are introduced will have to pay the fees up front? I certainly wouldn't be able to afford 3000 pounds per year on top of the living costs.
Hear Hear!!

The scots fought proudly for their land, and so always feel very patriotic towards it and have a usually friendly rivalry against england who in the end 'captured' them.. there is so much ancient history, bloody battles and legends of different clans that how can they not feel proud and patriotic for their country.. (I myslef am descended from the Campbell clan, who murdered the McDonalds while they slept which started the batlle of Glencoe i think..) so you see, its hard to explain but even though i live in england, I feel part of this huge story in history, and im proud (and apparently have murderers blood in my veins so watch out!)
Yes that's very true except for one crucial fact. The English never captured the Scots. James the 6th of Scotland was the nearest relation after Elizabeth the 1st died, so the English crown went to him. Eventually the crowns were linked.

(Original post by SamTheMan)
The Scots have a lot to be proud of, never being beaten by the English, the Romans before then...
I don't quite get why we don't get along better than we do.
Neither do I mate, neither do I.

(Original post by Howard)
For historic reasons the Scots dislike the English. From the Act of Sucession in the early 17th century until the recent passing of the Scotland Act, the Scots have been ruled by what many of them consider to be a foreign and unrepresentitive London government. And they hate us for it.
Very true although hate is too strong a word I feel. Resent is more appropriate.

(Original post by SamTheMan)
because they're all narrow-minded people who are still bothered about events that happened 300 or more years ago.
Only a narrowminded person would make a generalisation like that.

(Original post by SamTheMan)
but my question is are Scottish girls any good?
Oh we lassies are the best



Apologies for the huge post, but I bet I find some of the things being said about Scots here a lot more insulting than any lack of support in a silly little football game.
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SamTheMan
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#43
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(Original post by Acaila)
We achieve in other ways. Football isn't everything . And please do bear in mind when saying we're crap at football, we are a really titchy country with only 5 million people. Mind you we do have a terrible team .



Very true. The English national identity seems to have been hijacked by the BNP etc. Although there seems to have been a large positive display of said identity lately with the Euro championships.



Actually it was our king that took over your country, so technically you've been under our mercy since 1603.


Probably quite a lot. We'd be very happy to support a national team that did well. It would probably do a lot to help ease relations and I think if it happened you'd be surprised at how much Scottish support would be behind it.
We don't hate you at all. We just don't love you completely as it often feels you want us to.




I'm honestly sorry to hear of your experiences and I want to say that we're not all like that. I must admit I have heard several stories of the like. However such people do seem to be in the minority, and it does seem to be in certain areas. The vast majority of Scottish people do not hate the English.
We are also not massively overly represented in parliament. Scotland's parliament only makes decisions on certain issues, e.g. education as the Scottish education system is vastly different. So it's better that it gets dealt with in Scotland, rather than ignored in England. Wheras issues that affect the whole of the UK, e.g. the Euro constitution, are voted on by a parliament of MPs from all the countries of the UK. Under this system, England should probably have it's own parliament, but the whole reason for the Welsh assembly and the Scottish parliament was that it's mainly English issues dealt with at Westminster.
And please do cut us loose. Give us independence and we'll happily bugger off out of your parliament. As an independent country we wouldn't have to have debates like this.



It's nice to hear you say that. However I think, as a lot of Scots do, that just because we're beside a country, doesn't mean we are obliged to support them. In Euro 2004 for instance, I'm supporting France, Sweden and Holland, for various reasons (and not because France beat England, although I must admit I relished that game, or at least the end of it). Just because we're neighbours, doesn't bind us to eternal Beckham worshipping (or Rooney, or whoever's still in the collective goodbooks). And the idea that it does pushes more Scots away, festering more resentment.



Wasn't it England versus Scotland?



Probably is. Look at league football. Teams close to one another are more likely to be rivals than support each other. Why it is expected to be different at international level? Just because the Eurovision song contest is supposedly like that?



Hear Hear!!



Yes that's very true except for one crucial fact. The English never captured the Scots. James the 6th of Scotland was the nearest relation after Elizabeth the 1st died, so the English crown went to him. Eventually the crowns were linked.



Neither do I mate, neither do I.



Very true although hate is too strong a word I feel. Resent is more appropriate.



Only a narrowminded person would make a generalisation like that.



Oh we lassies are the best



Apologies for the huge post, but I bet I find some of the things being said about Scots here a lot more insulting than any lack of support in a silly little football game.
Sorry I got the Wales v Ireland match mixed up with something else.
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NDGAARONDI
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#44
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(Original post by Acaila)
Actually it was our king that took over your country, so technically you've been under our mercy since 1603.
Ah yes but at our own will Besides monarchs have little power these days anyway.

(Original post by Acaila)
I'm honestly sorry to hear of your experiences and I want to say that we're not all like that. I must admit I have heard several stories of the like. However such people do seem to be in the minority, and it does seem to be in certain areas. The vast majority of Scottish people do not hate the English.
It has been said before on UKL but with Wales instead.

(Original post by Acaila)
We are also not massively overly represented in parliament. Scotland's parliament only makes decisions on certain issues, e.g. education as the Scottish education system is vastly different. So it's better that it gets dealt with in Scotland, rather than ignored in England. Wheras issues that affect the whole of the UK, e.g. the Euro constitution, are voted on by a parliament of MPs from all the countries of the UK. Under this system, England should probably have it's own parliament, but the whole reason for the Welsh assembly and the Scottish parliament was that it's mainly English issues dealt with at Westminster.
Err from what I've read you ARE over represented at Westminster. You have about 70-something 'bonus' seats guaranteed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1944 (I think). It's a shame the government has to rely on this in order to legislate for England & Wales.

(Original post by Acaila)
And please do cut us loose. Give us independence and we'll happily bugger off out of your parliament. As an independent country we wouldn't have to have debates like this.
Does someone support SNP? Yes and the English will steal 'your' oil like the Spanish/Portugese did with our fish lol . Do you know what affects that might have on youe EU membership? Are there any surveys of Scots wanting independence in a majority?

(Original post by Acaila)
Yes that's very true except for one crucial fact. The English never captured the Scots. James the 6th of Scotland was the nearest relation after Elizabeth the 1st died, so the English crown went to him. Eventually the crowns were linked.
Ah but we so easily could have done later on but we decided to do something different for some strange reason. We should have changed the succession after Cromwell was to have a new successor. Wasn't there a battle between the English where they drove the Scots to Inverness or is that the one already mentioned?
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canuck
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#45
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(Original post by SamTheMan)
It's to reassure themselves of their national identity.
In the UK, Scotland, Wales have a strong national identity. England never really did. Instead of being a big equivalent of Scotland or Wales, we're just what's left of the UK when you take away the regions with a strong regional identity.
Making fun of the English is a way of reaffirming the national identity.

A bit like the way Canada (although they're a sovereign state), make fun of the Americans in their Molson's ads. They get the impression that gives them a national identity
you couldnt be more right
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roxy potter
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#46
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(Original post by sashh)
The term British Isles includes Ireland (republic of and NI)
Well it shoudn't.
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Acaila
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#47
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(Original post by NDGAARONDI)
Ah yes but at our own will Besides monarchs have little power these days anyway.

1603 is not these days. And the fact still stands that we have not been under your mercy for 300 years

It has been said before on UKL but with Wales instead.

[COLOR=DarkOrchid]Are Wales similarly obliged to cheer for England at sporting events? I don't really know of any Scots who support Wales in any competitions, but they don't accuse us of hating them.

Err from what I've read you ARE over represented at Westminster. You have about 70-something 'bonus' seats guaranteed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1944 (I think). It's a shame the government has to rely on this in order to legislate for England & Wales.

I will admit I don't know the specifics of what you're talking about. However just to emphasise the Westminster parliament has powers over the whole of the UK and therefore has members from all of the member countries. Scotland's parliament only decides certain matters which only affect Scotland (think of it as a glorified county council if you must) and therefore only allows members from Scottish constituencies. Why should England be allowed to affect our education policies when it has nothing to do with them?

Does someone support SNP? Yes and the English will steal 'your' oil like the Spanish/Portugese did with our fish lol . Do you know what affects that might have on youe EU membership? Are there any surveys of Scots wanting independence in a majority?

I'm sure somebody does, but it certainly doesn't happen to be me. I'm most emphatically not an SNP supporter. But then again, we're all red haired, SNP-supporting jocks up here aren't we? I think that should Scotland gain its deserved independence it may end up out of Europe due to the fishing and the oil and us not being very good at sharing. And as to the survey question, oh just a little survey like the Devolution Referendum that got us our parliament

Ah but we so easily could have done later on but we decided to do something different for some strange reason. We should have changed the succession after Cromwell was to have a new successor. Wasn't there a battle between the English where they drove the Scots to Inverness or is that the one already mentioned?
Oh of course you could have conquered us so easily. Never managed to happen in your many attempts, but if you'd really wanted to you would have done right?
The battle you are referring to was Culloden. Jacobites (not necessarily Scots as has been already pointed out, fought the Government (including Scots). And they didn't drive the Scots to Inverness. The Scots/Jacobites fought to Edinburgh and basically retook Scotland from the government. But Bonnie Prince Charlie wasn't quite satisfied and wanted England as well for his dear old dad, so he dragged his army to Derby, where they had one of their two defeats. The Scots/Jacobites had got pissed off of being so far from home and came back to Scotland after this (clan chiefs eventually overruled the Prince), pursued by the English. The Jacobites lost Culloden for a variety of reasons including the sneaky tactics of the Government army, the starving Jacobite army, half of whom had just got back from a dawn raid the night before, the really bad site, and the superior weapons of the government army.
Culloden was a turning point in Scottish history, as the English part of the government blamed the rebellion on the Scots and took away our freedom in many ways. Illegal to wear kilt, Illegal to speak Gaelic, Illegal to play the bagpipes etc. We were hardly Jocks after that. And our leaders were payed off or killed. That is where the rest of the historical resentment came from.
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canuck
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#48
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Well, after reading all this, i couldnt believe how much Britain is like Canada.

Well, in canada, we have 10 provinces and 3 territories. Each province and territiory has a legislative assembly. Each province looks after its own health care, education, natural resources and taxes. The federal goverment looks after defence, police, foriegn policy, and trade.

The federal goverment dosnt have much to say on what provinces do, thus sometimes there is a loose bond between the federal on provincial goverments. Sometimes the provinces group togeather and fight eachother or fight the federal goverment.

Cultural differences vary too. We have a provinve called qeubec that has a strong french identity. Many bills had been passed through parliment to please the qeubecers. If you come to Canada, there is french and english T.V., cereal boxes, signs, ect. Also the french canadians get a specail status. They have a totally different law system, cival law. Many times they have tried to split from canada and some extremists formed terrorist orginizations, bombing and kidnaping political officials.

Many english Canadians dislike the french, especially in hockey. The rivalry between the two groups shows its best in the game of hockey.

As you see, Canada has a similar problem

The U.S. is another example. Many southerners dislike the north, and have a different belief systems. Many southernors are more conservative, and some racist, while the north is more liberal.

The United states also has a similar problem too.
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NDGAARONDI
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Acaila, when people earlier referred to Scotland getting involved with voting on English stuff they probably meant the Scottish MPs who sit as Westminster. It is annoying but you are not to blame for this, it is the people who advocate devolution that should!
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Acaila
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Yes I know what they are referring to. But they are voting on British issues. With the occasional, and I mean occasional exception such as top up fees, which could spread to Scotland.
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BlackHawk
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#51
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(Original post by babyballerina)
I think this post proves you are exactly the kind of aggressive Scottish Nationalist who makes me avoid Scotland.
I was merely pointing out that your post was *******s. I am more irish than scots actually so do not make assumptions about me. I also believe that before you call someone agressive you should re-examine your own posts.

As said by you: 'Tell them to p*$$ off.' 'I say good riddance!' 'plus they have better schools and hospitals because they get an unfair share of tax paid by the English! Don't even get me started on the university tuition fees thing!'

You sound like an immature person that doesnt have a clue. I said your post was *******s then proceeded to show a good arguement against it. I have been in scotland for a long time and have been to a lot of places and I dont even have a scottish accent and I have never had trouble so please tell me where you get abused and refused because I find that personally insulting. I'm sure others in this forum would like to know where to avoid also.
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Happyelf
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#52
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grrrr
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Acaila
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#53
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#53
Growling at anything in particular?
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Fly By
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#54
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(Original post by Acaila)
Growling at anything in particular?
you
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Acaila
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Don't be so nasty
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wizard
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The Irish love the English too. http://www.keep-the-faith.net/strawberry.mp3
tis_me_lord
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LOL! I'm English and managed to find that funny.
NDGAARONDI
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It's a shame this thread has gone a little out of shape, was hoping for a great debate

Would it not be easier to grant Scotland independence rather than have devolution?
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Howard
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(Original post by NDGAARONDI)
It's a shame this thread has gone a little out of shape, was hoping for a great debate

Would it not be easier to grant Scotland independence rather than have devolution?
Not for the Labour party it wouldn't. If Scotland were devolved that would of course mean that the Labour party would lose half it's popular vote.......and that would never do.
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SamTheMan
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(Original post by canuck)
Well, after reading all this, i couldnt believe how much Britain is like Canada.

Well, in canada, we have 10 provinces and 3 territories. Each province and territiory has a legislative assembly. Each province looks after its own health care, education, natural resources and taxes. The federal goverment looks after defence, police, foriegn policy, and trade.

The federal goverment dosnt have much to say on what provinces do, thus sometimes there is a loose bond between the federal on provincial goverments. Sometimes the provinces group togeather and fight eachother or fight the federal goverment.

Cultural differences vary too. We have a provinve called qeubec that has a strong french identity. Many bills had been passed through parliment to please the qeubecers. If you come to Canada, there is french and english T.V., cereal boxes, signs, ect. Also the french canadians get a specail status. They have a totally different law system, cival law. Many times they have tried to split from canada and some extremists formed terrorist orginizations, bombing and kidnaping political officials.

Many english Canadians dislike the french, especially in hockey. The rivalry between the two groups shows its best in the game of hockey.

As you see, Canada has a similar problem

The U.S. is another example. Many southerners dislike the north, and have a different belief systems. Many southernors are more conservative, and some racist, while the north is more liberal.

The United states also has a similar problem too.
Yep, the UK is like Canada. People still continue bickering about things that happened several hundred years ago instead of looking at all we've achieved together since.
The weirdest thing about Canada is that Quebec had an important role (if not the most important) in the creation of Canada, they even invented the term "Canada" before any English-speaking people arrived in Canada (except the Hudson Bay). Yet a lot of them reject Canada completely.
They refuse to accept that since 1760, Canada has changed a lot and was built thanks to French and English Canadians, who today have nothing in common with those inhabitants from 1760. Today France and Quebec have nothing in common, as there was no cultural exchange between the two for 200 years. Just like Canada is very different from the UK.

Talking about Scotland, Canada has a strong Scottish heritage. It's probably the country with the most scottish heritage in the world. There's even a province called Nova Scotia (New Scotland). And there are so many people with Scottish surnames, even in Quebec.
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