"Ann Widdecombe versus the benefits culture" Watch

L i b
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Oswy)
I had, more or less, got used to having no money, no 'stuff', no TV or holidays etc.
Out of curiosity, how long were you unemployed for?

I've been in higher education for three years, and I'm still not used to being skint and relatively possessionless. I hate it.
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Oswy
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#62
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(Original post by Apagg)
I'd agree more or less with that process, hysteresis and all that. However, when (as today) jobs are fairly plentiful (the job market is nothing like it was in the 80s and 70s), it is argued that overly generous benefits are what lure people into this process in the first place. Reduce them, and you will reduce the number of long term unemployed, benefiting both those people and the economy/society in general
I'd accept that economic circumstances are different today (though it might be naive to think another recession is impossible). What I think is interesting is that it seems like the culture of long-term unemployment can pass from one generation to another even where, as you suggest, a higher material standard of living (and even self-esteem) might be easily gained with work-orientation. Also, I tend to think that I've possibly been deeply affected by my experience of unemployment in that:

a) While I'm a consciencious worker and always (thusfar) obtain good references I never find myself 'believing' in the job and instead have a self-consciously instrumental and short-term attitude to work.

b) I'm still to this day (twenty years later) relatively unmaterialistic - this computer being the most expensive thing I own.

I have no idea how representative this kind of long-term unemployment 'imprint' is, however.
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Oswy
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Libertin du Nord)
Out of curiosity, how long were you unemployed for?

I've been in higher education for three years, and I'm still not used to being skint and relatively possessionless. I hate it.
As I recollect I went through two periods of six months unemployment (whereupon jobclub attendance became a necessity for benefit continuance). In total, I'd say I was unemployed off and on for maybe three or four years over the 1980s - much of it in small doses between similarly small episodes of employment.
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Apagg
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Oswy)
I'd accept that economic circumstances are different today (though it might be naive to think another recession is impossible). What I think is interesting is that it seems like the culture of long-term unemployment can pass from one generation to another even where, as you suggest, a higher material standard of living (and even self-esteem) might be easily gained with work-orientation. Also, I tend to think that I've possibly been deeply affected by my experience of unemployment in that:

a) While I'm a consciencious worker and always (thusfar) obtain good references I never find myself 'believing' in the job and instead have a self-consciously instrumental and short-term attitude to work.

b) I'm still to this day (twenty years later) relatively unmaterialistic - this computer being the most expensive thing I own.

I have no idea how representative this kind of long-term unemployment 'imprint' is, however.
Economists (and psychologists) theorise it as one possible reason for the differences in unemployment rates between Europe and the US - a short term increase in Europe generally takes longer than in the US to be righted, and seems to have a "hangover" for the economy.
It's worth noting that the US has a less generous and more work orientated benefits system, though it is not without its disadvantages, which seems a probable cause of lower US unemployment
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Astor
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(Original post by Howard)
It always makes me laugh when politicians, who for the best part earn vast sums for doing very little paid by the taxpayer lecture people on working for a living. Look at Widdecome - a fine example - the daughter of a Senior Civil Servant (living off the taxpayer seems to run in the family) - convent school, Latin at Oxford and then practically straight off to Parliament. WTF does she really know about working for a living?
Very little? And what do you know about being a politician? 649 people legislating our lives is a job with great demand and responsibility, I think the salary she is on (someone said 50k I think with Ann you can comfortably tripple that) is well justified. She isn't an executive, she isn't even a Chief executive, she is a Legislator, she's of the Governing class, of course you can moan about her performance but at the end of the day she is worth what the role will pay.
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2026
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#66
(Original post by Astor)
Very little? And what do you know about being a politician? 649 people legislating our lives is a job with great demand and responsibility, I think the salary she is on (someone said 50k I think with Ann you can comfortably tripple that) is well justified. She isn't an executive, she isn't even a Chief executive, she is a Legislator, she's of the Governing class, of course you can moan about her performance but at the end of the day she is worth what the role will pay.
Get out of her arse!

And, do not neg rep people for their opinions which are not offensive to any group. It's not polite. You know whats coming your way now, and mine is much bigger than yours.
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Astor
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#67
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(Original post by 1.9.8.4.)
Get out of her arse!

And, do not neg rep people for their opinions which are not offensive to any group. It's not polite. You know whats coming your way now, and mine is much bigger than yours.
I will neg rep if I 'Disagree' which is one of the rep options, dunce.

I disagree with you. And I think your view of Widde is an opinion. I think abortion is "despicable", thats my opinion.
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Socrates
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#68
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(Original post by Astor)
Very little? And what do you know about being a politician?
What do you know?

649 people legislating our lives is a job with great demand and responsibility, I think the salary she is on (someone said 50k I think with Ann you can comfortably tripple that) is well justified. She isn't an executive, she isn't even a Chief executive, she is a Legislator, she's of the Governing class, of course you can moan about her performance but at the end of the day she is worth what the role will pay.
What tripe. The less legislators we have, the better.
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cottonmouth
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#69
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(Original post by dan_man)
God your stupid, it was a completely sarcastic comment I know your a socialist but if your IQ was any lower then we would have to water you. Your harking on about 'lol 360 quid aint enuf' is complete crap, do these people live in central London, no.
Calling someone 'stupid' in such an illiterate manner is rather ironic, isn't it? And no, what you did wasn't sarcasm. Do you know what sarcasm is? Go and look it up on that useful tool for morons called "Wikipedia". Sarcasm isn't saying "poor people should not be able to breed". Could you just explain to my tiny, socialist brain how that sentence constituted "sarcasm"?

Water me? Did you make that joke up yourself? The IQ being a metaphorical plant? Well done.

Well done for using "your" in the right context on your last sentence.

See, trying to make people look stupid is tiresome and annoying isn't it? And what time i wasted! And how petty it made me look! Learn something.
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cottonmouth
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#70
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(Original post by Libertin du Nord)
And you chose to go to university in London. Had I been in England at the time (I stayed in Scotland for largely financial reasons too) I would not have done that myself quite simply because of the associated costs.



Well then you're living a luxury lifestyle which, frankly, is beyond the reach of most of the population. Not everyone can, or should be able to, afford what you do.
I did choose London, for job prospects too. I figured any money i spend now will be made back with the better prospects it opens up later on, you know, deferred gratification and all that.

Yeah, its expensive to live in London( especially in West London), i concede that. But i believe if poeople are able to get into a London uni, knowing that it can be brilliant for contacts etc, then there should be financial assistance for that. If i'm not mistaken, you get more loan for London, don't you?
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L i b
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#71
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(Original post by cottonmouth)
I did choose London, for job prospects too. I figured any money i spend now will be made back with the better prospects it opens up later on, you know, deferred gratification and all that.

Yeah, its expensive to live in London( especially in West London), i concede that. But i believe if poeople are able to get into a London uni, knowing that it can be brilliant for contacts etc, then there should be financial assistance for that. If i'm not mistaken, you get more loan for London, don't you?
Well then, living on that wage in London would be ideal as it would presumably only be justified in terms of tactical long term advantage. Which is what you are doing.
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Dr Pip
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#72
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There's nothing more entertaining than watching Widders shout at dole scum. Why are all you boring lefties taking it so seriously? it was a farce just like all of ITVs sorry excuse for 'cutting-edge' television shows. All be it with a few good points to make, as to why benefits are so high that staying on them is more attractive than work.
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2026
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#73
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Oh be quite!
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2nd2god
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#74
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#74
It's quite simple remove benefits
Then people would realise in the long run to stop having children because other people aren't gonna pay for them for you
Also it would help solve all these chavs/yobs around living on the doll, force them to get a job or be homeless
Of course you would need incapicity benefits but you would make them awfully hard to get, so no one who isnt intilted to them has no chance in hell of getting them.
I believe its only fair if people cant be arsed to work they should get no benefits
Increase minimum wage instead, use some of the benefit money to help do that, the amount of the increase in the effeciency of the economy would be tremendous
And hard working people wouldnt have to pay for louts on benefits which in my opinion is injust
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cottonmouth
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#75
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(Original post by 2nd2god)
It's quite simple remove benefits
Then people would realise in the long run to stop having children because other people aren't gonna pay for them for you
Also it would help solve all these chavs/yobs around living on the doll, force them to get a job or be homeless
Of course you would need incapicity benefits but you would make them awfully hard to get, so no one who isnt intilted to them has no chance in hell of getting them.
I believe its only fair if people cant be arsed to work they should get no benefits
Increase minimum wage instead, use some of the benefit money to help do that, the amount of the increase in the effeciency of the economy would be tremendous
And hard working people wouldnt have to pay for louts on benefits which in my opinion is injust

I've been arguing against the belief that exams are getting easier. Then i see you got an A in English language. Maybe i'll shut up on that exam thread for a while.

Why punish the children of those on benefits by removing them?
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2nd2god
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#76
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(Original post by cottonmouth)
I've been arguing against the belief that exams are getting easier. Then i see you got an A in English language. Maybe i'll shut up on that exam thread for a while.

Why punish the children of those on benefits by removing them?
Ha ha is that menna be an insult?
Because theres allways social services
The only way to provide an incentive to stop yobs porducing 15 children, who will all turn out to be anti social and yobs too. is to remove the incentive of child benefits.
because then quite simperley they would realise that they cant supprot the children they are creating for fun.
Also it would reduce street crime and all of that, just like abortion in america reduced street crime, in my opinion theres no reason for benefits its like living in a nanny state, they should go out and get a job
There is no logical economic reason for benefits, bar politiceans are too scared to remove them because they will get voted out.
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2026
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#77
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(Original post by 2nd2god)
Ha ha is that menna be an insult?
Because theres allways social services
The only way to provide an incentive to stop yobs porducing 15 children, who will all turn out to be anti social and yobs too. is to remove the incentive of child benefits.
because then quite simperley they would realise that they cant supprot the children they are creating for fun.
Also it would reduce street crime and all of that, just like abortion in america reduced street crime, in my opinion theres no reason for benefits its like living in a nanny state, they should go out and get a job
There is no logical economic reason for benefits, bar politiceans are too scared to remove them because they will get voted out.
Lol.
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L i b
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#78
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(Original post by Dr Pip)
There's nothing more entertaining than watching Widders shout at dole scum.
And that's all there is to it.
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_jackofdiamonds
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#79
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(Original post by Segat1)
Anyway, I saw the one where she bascially followed prostitutes around yelling at them and calling them scum.
Well at least they're earning their way. Widders was probably just jealous coz she couldn't give it away if she tried.
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2026
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#80
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#80
(Original post by _jackofdiamonds)
Well at least they're earning their way. Widders was probably just jealous coz she couldn't give it away if she tried.
Haha.
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