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We have been given this problem and it has caused some argument between my group.
\sum _N^{2N}U_n=2750\:
Some of us have solved with 2N and got a 14 for N, and some have just used N and got 20. Anyone got any ideas?

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Uhhhh can you present it in a clearer form pls?
Original post by r.place2001
We have been given this problem and it has caused some argument between my group.
\sum _N^{2N}U_n=2750\:
Some of us have solved with 2N and got a 14 for N, and some have just used N and got 20. Anyone got any ideas?


You kinda need to define UnU_n first lol...
Reply 3
Original post by RDKGames
You kinda need to define UnU_n first lol...

We haven't been given UN
Original post by r.place2001
We haven't been given UN


Then you can't possibly answer this question.
Reply 5
Original post by 3pointonefour
Uhhhh can you present it in a clearer form pls?

seq.PNG
Reply 6
Original post by RDKGames
Then you can't possibly answer this question.

What I did was use Sn = n/2 {2a+(n-1)d} and used n = 2N, I forgot to mention we are given a = 5 and d = 3 oops
Reply 7
N = 0
U_0 = 2750

Do I get a prize?
Original post by r.place2001
What I did was use Sn = n/2 {2a+(n-1)d} and used n = 2N, I forgot to mention we are given a = 5 and d = 3 oops


So then you DO have Un=5+3(n1)U_n = 5+3(n-1) defined...

Well ok yeah you can use that formula for sure, but first you need to split

n=N2NUn=n=12NUnn=1N1Un\displaystyle \sum_{n=N}^{2N} U_n = \sum_{n=1}^{2N} U_n - \sum_{n=1}^{N-1} U_n

and use it on both of them. Then simplify and solve for NN.
Reply 9
Original post by mqb2766
N = 0
U_0 = 2750

Do I get a prize?

unfortunately not
Original post by RDKGames
So then you DO have Un=5+3(n1)U_n = 5+3(n-1) defined...

Well ok yeah you can use that formula for sure, but first you need to split

n=N2NUn=n=12NUnn=1N1Un\displaystyle \sum_{n=N}^{2N} U_n = \sum_{n=1}^{2N} U_n - \sum_{n=1}^{N-1} U_n

and use it on both of them. Then simplify and solve for NN.

So my working of Sn=2N/2(2a+(2N1)d)S_n = 2N/2(2a+(2N-1)d)
2750=2N/2(10+6N3)[br]5500=2N(20+12N6)[br]5500=40N+24N212N[br]0=24N2+28N5500 2750 = 2N/2(10+6N-3)[br]5500 = 2N(20+12N-6)[br]5500 = 40N+24N^2-12N[br]0 = 24N^2 + 28N - 5500
Solve for N with the quadratic formula
N=14.56...orN=15.86 N = 14.56... or N = -15.86
but N N cannot be -ve so N=14 N = 14
Im currently doing a level and i havent been taught the way you described
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by r.place2001
unfortunately not

Didn't see the extra info :-)
Original post by r.place2001
So my working of Sn=2N/2(2a+(n1)d)S_n = 2N/2(2a+(n-1)d)
2750=2N/2(10+6N3)[br]5500=2N(20+12N6)[br]5500=40N+28N212N[br]0=28N2+20N5500 2750 = 2N/2(10+6N-3)[br]5500 = 2N(20+12N-6)[br]5500 = 40N+28N^2-12N[br]0 = 28N^2 + 20N - 5500
Solve for N with the quadratic formula
N=14.56...orN=15.86 N = 14.56... or N = -15.86
but N N cannot be -ve so N=14 N = 14
Im currently doing a level and i havent been taught the way you described


So what you've done is taken the sum from all the numbers from 1 all the way to 2N, but this sum asks for all the numbers from N to 2N, so you need to get rid of all the numbers from 1 to (N-1) before you do any quadratic solving.
Original post by r.place2001
So my working of Sn=2N/2(2a+(2N1)d)S_n = 2N/2(2a+(2N-1)d)
2750=2N/2(10+6N3)[br]5500=2N(20+12N6)[br]5500=40N+24N212N[br]0=24N2+28N5500 2750 = 2N/2(10+6N-3)[br]5500 = 2N(20+12N-6)[br]5500 = 40N+24N^2-12N[br]0 = 24N^2 + 28N - 5500
Solve for N with the quadratic formula
N=14.56...orN=15.86 N = 14.56... or N = -15.86
but N N cannot be -ve so N=14 N = 14
Im currently doing a level and i havent been taught the way you described


That's wrong because S2NS_{2N} works when you are counting up from the 1st term to the (2N)th term.
But the sum presented to you starts from the nth term and goes to the (2n)th term.

Hence motivating the split I presented.
Original post by r.place2001
What I did was use Sn = n/2 {2a+(n-1)d} and used n = 2N, I forgot to mention we are given a = 5 and d = 3 oops


You could have mentioned you are talking about an arithmetic series too. Defining variables without context is bad practice. Using "a" as the first value (which I think you have misunderstood, more on this later) and "d" as the difference is not how everyone does it everywhere. I'm going to guess that you mean Un=5+3(n1)U_n=5+3(n-1).

Write out the series:

(5+3(N-1))+(5+3(N))+(5+3(N+1))+...+(5+3(2N-3))+(5+3(2N-2))+(5+3(2N-1))

This is an arithmetic series where the first term is 5+3(N-1) and the common difference is 3. So you should be using d=3 and a=5+3(N-1) instead of a=5 in your formula. Splitting sums is optional, you can just deal directly with a single arithmetic series.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by RDKGames
That's wrong because S2NS_{2N} works when you are counting up from the 1st term to the (2N)th term.
But the sum presented to you starts from the nth term and goes to the (2n)th term.

Hence motivating the split I presented.

As I said, i am only 4 week into year 13 and so we havent been taught how to do that split method. I my teacher wouldnt set a problem without us having the knowledge to solve it, is there any other method to solving this?
Original post by I hate maths
You could have mentioned you are talking about an arithmetic series too. Defining variables without context is bad practice. Using "a" as the first value (which I think you have misunderstood, more on this later) and "d" as the difference is not how everyone does it everywhere. I'm going to guess that you mean Un=5+3(n1)U_n=5+3(n-1).

Write out the series:

(5+3(N-1))+(5+3(N))+(5+3(N+1))+...+(5+3(2N-3))+(5+3(2N-2))+(5+3(2N-1))

This is an arithmetic series where the first term is 5+3(N-1) and the common difference is 3. So you should be using d=3 and a=5+3(N-1) instead of a=5 in your formula. Splitting sums is optional, you can just deal directly with a single arithmetic series.

So i could use Sn=2NorN?2(2(5+3(n1))+3(N1)) S_n = \frac{2N or N?}{2}(2(5+3(n-1))+3(N-1)) ?
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by r.place2001
As I said, i am only 4 week into year 13 and so we havent been taught how to do that split method. I my teacher wouldnt set a problem without us having the knowledge to solve it, is there any other method to solving this?


It's the simplest approach and really simple to understand.

Look, you are trying get this sum:

UN+UN+1+UN+2++U2N1+U2NU_N + U_{N+1} + U_{N+2} +\ldots + U_{2N-1} + U_{2N}

what I am proposing is considering the following sum:

U1+U2++UN1+UN+UN+1++U2NU_1 + U_2 + \ldots + U_{N-1} + U_{N} + U_{N+1} + \ldots + U_{2N}

and subtracting the following from it:

U1+U2++UN1U_1 + U_2 + \ldots + U_{N-1}.

Surely you can see how you are left with UN+UN+1++U2NU_N + U_{N+1} + \ldots + U_{2N} which is your sum you want.

I am surprised your teacher hasn't shown you this.
Original post by r.place2001
So i could use Sn=2NorN?2(2(5+3(n1))+3(N1)) S_n = \frac{2N or N?}{2}(2(5+3(n-1))+3(N-1)) ?


I think your teacher must have really bungled this topic in class.

First, let's start with the basic bit: counting.

How many terms does n=37n2\sum_{n=3}^{7}n^2 have? Maybe 7-3=4 terms? Well n=37n2=32+42+52+62+72\sum_{n=3}^{7}n^2 = 3^2+4^2+5^2+6^2+7^2. That's five terms. To find out how many terms a series have, you subtract the top number by the bottom number and add one (maybe figure out why this works).

In our example of n=N2N(5+3(n1))\sum_{n=N}^{2N}(5+3(n-1)) (the parentheses surrounding the entire expression is important to show we are summing the whole thing), we have 2NN+1=N+12N-N+1=N+1 terms.

In the formula Sn=n2(2a+(n1)d)\displaystyle S_n = \frac{n}{2}(2a+(n-1)d):
a refers to the first term,
d refers to the difference
n refers to the number of terms. (confusingly we have already used n as the dummy variable in our summation)

The first term is 5+3(N1)5+3(N-1). The difference is 33. The number of terms is N+1N+1 (not NN or 2N2N).

The formula I much prefer to think of is this:

sum=number of terms2(first term+last term)\displaystyle \text{sum} = \frac{ \text{number of terms}}{2}(\text{first term} + \text{last term}). It makes much more sense to me and doesn't have a lot of potentially confusing symbols, but the formulas are equivalent.
Original post by RDKGames
It's the simplest approach and really simple to understand.


I disagree. How is turning a problem about one arithmetic series into two the simplest approach?

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