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GP facing the sack for "discrimination" over the veil

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Original post by shadowdweller
Of course I understand how a consultation works; that's why I'm choosing to weigh in on the debate. It's worth noting that he did not, in fact, ask for a female GP, and indeed that is one of the criticisms against him.

From the linked articles:

"Human rights campaigner Aisha Ali-Khan tweeted: ‘I don’t believe [a] doctor should be prosecuted for doing his job *but* he should have asked for a female third party to help, or asked patient to write down her medical complaints.’"




Ah right so the so called human rights campaigner was there at the walk-in centre? Please quote where it says he didn't ask for a female GP? Your views have been made clear. You will happily trust somebody who is probably Muslim than a doctor who actually dealt with the patient and clearly said he looked for a female GP. I'm afraid you've made this an issue of skin colour.
Original post by Reality Check
You wouldn't get awfully far in a ten-minute appointment that way, would you?


Um, I'm sorry but unless a person writes incredibly slowly, I can't imagine why they wouldn't be able to cover as much as is needed in a 10 minute appointment; she was only describing the symptoms her daughter had, it would take < 30 seconds to write something like that.
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
If he is having trouble understanding her, yes. While it's not the same thing (my therapist could understand me), I've used the same strategy previously where I didn't feel capable of vocalising various issues: and yet my therapist was not deaf and I am able to speak (the term is not dumb, just as it's not mohamedian).



That would also be a reasonable alternative to offer, and yet nowhere in the telegraph article (the daily mail is about as reliable as reading tea leaves) does it say he offered that...

When in doubt always attack the accuracy of the news outlet :wink:
Original post by shadowdweller
Um, I'm sorry but unless a person writes incredibly slowly, I can't imagine why they wouldn't be able to cover as much as is needed in a 10 minute appointment; she was only describing the symptoms her daughter had, it would take < 30 seconds to write something like that.

And then the doctor writes back to clarify a point and passes her the note. And then she writes her reply and passes him the pad. And he writes back to ask her what exactly that meant'. And then they've run out of paper. And then he can't quite make out that word - is it 'fever' or 'fiver'? And now the appointment is over.
Original post by Mental Asylum
Ah right so the so called human rights campaigner was there at the walk-in centre? Please quote where it says he didn't ask for a female GP? Your views have been made clear. You will happily trust somebody who is probably Muslim than a doctor who actually dealt with the patient and clearly said he looked for a female GP. I'm afraid you've made this an issue of skin colour.


Are we really basing this on the article not saying that he didn't offer a female GP as an alternative? If you can point me to somewhere where that is written in the coverage of the story, please do - but currently nothing from his side, nor from hers, suggest that a female GP was offered as an alternative. I can't imagine that if a complaint was made against you that a) you wouldn't make it abundantly clear that you'd offered that and b) that no news articles would quote you saying that.

I repeat, neither of the linked articles state he asked if she wanted to see a female GP. If you have seen news coverage elsewhere disputing that, then by all means link it to me :yep:
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
(the term is not dumb, just as it's not mohamedian).

I beg to differ. Just because you might have adopted American slang and use 'dumb' to mean 'stupid' does not mean we have all sunk to those levels of discourse. You should get a dictionary:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/dumb

1. adjective

Someone who is dumb is completely unable to speak.


and, of course:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mohammedan

or:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/moslem

All perfectly ordinary and inoffensive.
Original post by shadowdweller
Presumably, however, Judges and MPs do so in order to confirm an identity, which is not the same as this situation

Identity is part of it, but the reading of facial expressions is a bigger part, and is all part of normal interaction, used subconsciously by us all every day. Only about ten per cent of a message is conveyed by the words of the message; important parts are conveyed by facial expressions and body language.
Original post by MeyPingas
The GP was racist and got fired, big deal?


Racist? Come again?
Original post by Good bloke
Identity is part of it, but the reading of facial expressions is a bigger part, and is all part of normal interaction, used subconsciously by us all every day. Only about ten per cent of a message is conveyed by the words of the message; important parts are conveyed by facial expressions and body language.


And if that were necessary to discuss a list of symptoms, perhaps there would be an argument to have here - however, facial expressions and body language are not needed to convey the fact that a person has x, y, and z symptoms.
Original post by Good bloke
I beg to differ. Just because you might have adopted American slang and use 'dumb' to mean 'stupid' does not mean we have all sunk to those levels of discourse. You should get a dictionary:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/dumb

1. adjective

Someone who is dumb is completely unable to speak.

and, of course:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mohammedan

or:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/moslem

All perfectly ordinary and inoffensive.


Except no, dumb is offensive and has been considered as such for quite a while. The term deaf and dumb is very outdated, well understood as offensive and recommended against in pretty much every style guide (you would describe someone as profoundly deaf or deaf without speech instead)

Original post by Mental Asylum
When in doubt always attack the accuracy of the news outlet :wink:


So, still care to point out where the GP actually offered to transfer the woman to a female GP? Because again, your source doesn't make any mention of it.
I did that with my GP the first time I went alone, I was really nervous so I wrote all my symptoms and issues on paper and handed it to him lol
Are you really suggesting it is reasonable to communicate in writing with someone who is neither deaf nor dumb and who is sitting in front of you on the grounds that they wish to live their lives as if they were in a seventh century desert?
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Except no, dumb is offensive and has been considered as such for quite a while. The term deaf and dumb is very outdated, well understood as offensive and recommended against in pretty much every style guide (you would describe someone as profoundly deaf or deaf without speech instead)



So, still care to point out where the GP actually offered to transfer the woman to a female GP? Because again, your source doesn't make any mention of it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7043207/GP-52-facing-sack-discrimination-Muslim-veil.html

Does this make it any better or will you resort to attacks on news outlets because they didn't describe your expectations?
Original post by shadowdweller
Are we really basing this on the article not saying that he didn't offer a female GP as an alternative? If you can point me to somewhere where that is written in the coverage of the story, please do - but currently nothing from his side, nor from hers, suggest that a female GP was offered as an alternative. I can't imagine that if a complaint was made against you that a) you wouldn't make it abundantly clear that you'd offered that and b) that no news articles would quote you saying that.

I repeat, neither of the linked articles state he asked if she wanted to see a female GP. If you have seen news coverage elsewhere disputing that, then by all means link it to me :yep:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7043207/GP-52-facing-sack-discrimination-Muslim-veil.html

Lets all go with Aisha the human rights activist who wasn't present at the walk-in centre but probably shares the same heritage and religion as the so called "victim" which makes her more trustworthy :wink:
Original post by Mental Asylum
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7043207/GP-52-facing-sack-discrimination-Muslim-veil.html

Does this make it any better or will you resort to attacks on news outlets because they didn't describe your expectations?


I mean, the daily mail is not a reliable source by any stretch of the imagination, but if you're going to cite it to defend your argument you should at least read it:


I've seen the suggest that I could've asked a female GP to carry out the treatment for the woman's daughter but there was no female GP in the centre.'


This expressly says that he didn't offer for a female GP to take over...
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Except no, dumb is offensive and has been considered as such for quite a while. The term deaf and dumb is very outdated, well understood as offensive and recommended against in pretty much every style guide (you would describe someone as profoundly deaf or deaf without speech instead)

You might want me to but I wouldn't. I would say 'dumb' just as I wrote it. You must realise that political correctness is something to be resisted, not something to submit to. Just because you mean something nasty when you use a particular word does not mean I do.

Once you have control over the words I use you will want control over the things I do, or think. Oh, I forgot, you already do want that control.
Original post by Mental Asylum
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7043207/GP-52-facing-sack-discrimination-Muslim-veil.html

Does this make it any better or will you resort to attacks on news outlets because they didn't describe your expectations?


I would point out that the article you linked explicitly says he didn't ask if she wanted to see a female GP:

"'I've seen the suggest that I could've asked a female GP to carry out the treatment for the woman's daughter but there was no female GP in the centre.' "
Original post by Mental Asylum
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7043207/GP-52-facing-sack-discrimination-Muslim-veil.html

Lets all go with Aisha the human rights activist who wasn't present at the walk-in centre but probably shares the same heritage and religion as the so called "victim" which makes her more trustworthy :wink:


As per my previous post, the article you're linking states the opposite of your point, I'm afraid :sadnod:
Original post by forgotten_one
I did that with my GP the first time I went alone, I was really nervous so I wrote all my symptoms and issues on paper and handed it to him lol


Exactly this - there are numerous situations where it is a) entirely appropriate and b) explicitly recommended! :yep:
Original post by shadowdweller
I would point out that the article you linked explicitly says he didn't ask if she wanted to see a female GP:

"'I've seen the suggest that I could've asked a female GP to carry out the treatment for the woman's daughter but there was no female GP in the centre.' "

Do you understand how allegations work? He had the intention to offer alternatives and he did look for a female doctor which by the way she should have done so before hand.

or do you suggest it would have been better if he sent her away completely?
Original post by Mental Asylum
Do you understand how allegations work? He had the intention to offer alternatives and he did look for a female doctor which by the way she should have done so before hand.

or do you suggest it would have been better if he sent her away completely?


I do, but thank you for requesting confirmation! It actually doesn't state that he intended to offer alternatives; it acknowledges that he could not have implemented the suggested option, but does not state that he considered it at the time.

There is also no reason that she should have looked for one beforehand - not every individual struggles to communicate with someone wearing a veil, and she wasn't even the patient in question, so there would have been no expectation she would have to remove it for her daughter to be treated.

Naturally I would not have preferred her to be sent away - but as has been previously stated, offering a pen and paper would have been another alternative, and one that was readily available.

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