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FoeGeddaBowDeet
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#121
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#121
(Original post by Veni_vidi)
you joined the anti obama soc, are you trying to stop me joing the anti-isreal soc if there was one?
get a life
Actually, i'm an ardent Obama supporter, and posting in a soc thread doesn't make you a member of that soc. If you're an Obama supporter it's quite surprising you'd join an anti-Israel society given his professed strong support for Israel, but that wasn't my complaint. I negged you because of the blatently racist implications of your open support for the idea given the lack of justification and the lack of any reasonable logic for the idea of an 'anti-israel' society anyway.
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Veni_vidi
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#122
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#122
(Original post by PeeWeeDan)
I think the point he's making is that you give no valid reasons for being Anti-Israel, we've given reasons for being Anti-Obama and have far more. Seriously though, if you really want to explain why you're anti-Israel, I want to hear, PM me. Or go on the Israel is Bad thread.
i don't need to give a valid reason here, if there was a soc i would make my reasons there if i had the time, i think it was foolish of him to neg rep me to saying that, i find this thread offensive but am i neg repping people for it , no. so whats his reason? he could have simply asked me why
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davidjones90
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#123
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#123
(Original post by PeeWeeDan)
I think the point he's making is that you give no valid reasons for being Anti-Israel, we've given reasons for being Anti-Obama and have far more. Seriously though, if you really want to explain why you're anti-Israel, I want to hear, PM me. Or go on the Israel is Bad thread.
To spread more propaganda.
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PeeWeeDan
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#124
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#124
Hasbara

:p:
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Veni_vidi
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#125
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#125
(Original post by FoeGeddaBowDeet)
Actually, i'm an ardent Obama supporter, and posting in a soc thread doesn't make you a member of that soc. If you're an Obama supporter it's quite surprising you'd join an anti-Israel society given his professed strong support for Israel, but that wasn't my complaint. I negged you because of the blatently racist implications of your open support for the idea given the lack of justification and the lack of any reasonable logic for the idea of an 'anti-israel' society anyway.
my racist implications?
i don't think the person who suggested the idea gave any justifications, isreal is destroying the lives of many people, they are dividing families and stealing their land, why should i support any group that does such a thing? this is only an once of my justification but i don't have time for this, leave your name next time you neg rep me
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username138327
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#126
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#126
(Original post by PeeWeeDan)
I'm undecided on Kosovo, I see reasons for and against and have yet to formulate a decent argument. The fact of the matter is that Obama has some real hawkish policies, and to portray him as a dove is simply inaccurate.
Nobody is portraying him as a dove. I don't portray him as a dove and neither does the british press. Obama didn't discuss foreign policy in depth during the primaries, he had no need to. The only way people formulated what his views were, were by speculation by the media. Obama stated his views on most parts of foreign policy recently.

In no way do I think his policies are hawkish. If they are hawkish then Mc Cain's are simply acts of war. Saying that Iran might be need to dealt with force but he would rather use diplomacy to achieve his means. His attitude, here, to pakistan sounds very reasonable to me. USA give pakistan huge amounts of foreign aid in exchange for an alliance against islamic fundamentalist terrorists. If they don't up-hold their end of the bargain then should they get that aid? No. If they are intentionally not dealing with the terrorists then somebody needs to. America believes it is the country to do so.

Obama's policies are not hawkish. They are merely a less aggressive form of diplomacy that bush and mc cain have bought into. America can not simply go from war-mongers to pacifists.
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overhung
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#127
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#127
(Original post by PeeWeeDan)
I think the point he's making is that you give no valid reasons for being Anti-Israel, we've given reasons for being Anti-Obama and have far more. Seriously though, if you really want to explain why you're anti-Israel, I want to hear, PM me. Or go on the Israel is Bad thread.
You want a critique of Israel?
I point you to Noam Chomsky - the greatest man alive.
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ggonex26
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#128
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#128
Why is it racist to disagree with Israeli policy? I personally have no problems with jews as such, however i dislike the rabbid zionists that always claim Israel is infallible. I also dislike the fact that US policies are influenced heavily by the Jewish lobby. I think that if Israel's policies were in the interests of America's, there would be no need for a Jewish lobby. I also hate the fact that anytime Pro-Israel people hear a criticism of Israel they claim antisemitism, it is just another tactic to stifle debate. Israel is an entity, it is a state, my dislike of its policies is not a dislike of jews as a race. To pretend it is, is to pretend that jews are genetically programmed to pursue the current Israeli policy and that it is in their blood to bomb indiscriminately. I do not believe this is the case, so please stop linking all jews with the right wing murderous zionists who would expand Israel until it bordered Kent if possible. I do not think they represent all jews and i do not think they should have such a disproportionate amount of power in western nations. Europe is less pro-israel which is why Peewee thinks we're too soft, lets just hope it stays that way.
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Veni_vidi
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#129
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#129
(Original post by overhung)
You want a critique of Israel?
I point you to Noam Chomsky - the greatest man alive.
was he not a jewish?
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Veni_vidi
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#130
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#130
(Original post by George231086)
Why is it racist to disagree with Israeli policy? I personally have no problems with jews as such, however i dislike the rabbid zionists that always claim Israel is infallible. I also dislike the fact that US policies are influenced heavily by the Jewish lobby. I think that if Israel's policies were in the interests of America's, there would be no need for a Jewish lobby. I also hate the fact that anytime Pro-Israel people hear a criticism of Israel they claim antisemitism, it is just another tactic to stifle debate. Israel is an entity, it is a state, my dislike of its policies is not a dislike of jews as a race. To pretend it is, is to pretend that jews are genetically programmed to pursue the current Israeli policy and that it is in their blood to bomb indiscriminately. I do not believe this is the case, so please stop linking all jews with the right wing murderous zionists who would expand Israel until it bordered Kent if possible. I do not think they represent all jews and i do not think they should have such a disproportionate amount of power in western nations. Europe is less pro-israel which is why Peewee thinks we're too soft, lets just hope it stays that way.
thank you for the post, it speaks so much truth.
i have friends who are jewish, i like them a lot(because they are good people) but i dont like the isreali govt, does that make me a "racist"? if it does then so be it
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ggonex26
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#131
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#131
This is an interesting read, it is a report regarding Israel US relations written by reputable US professors. I think it gives an insight as to why i am not to keen on the zionists.

http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/RWP06-011/$File/rwp_06_011_walt.pdf
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Chaoslord
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#132
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#132
(Original post by tis_me_lord)
Pfft, he's a very half-assed kind of black.
hes clearly not white

and he sucks at being black basically
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Made in the USA
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#133
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#133
(Original post by malsi101)
I dont know how you can hate a man who only wants to do his best for America!
I'm sure he "wants to do his best for America", like all American politicians do. You've heard the expression, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" before, haven't you?
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PeeWeeDan
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#134
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#134
my racist implications?
i don't think the person who suggested the idea gave any justifications, isreal is destroying the lives of many people, they are dividing families and stealing their land, why should i support any group that does such a thing? this is only an once of my justification but i don't have time for this, leave your name next time you neg rep me
Of course all of those accusations are the ramblings of someone entirely ignorant on Israeli history, however I'm not going to discuss this in this thread.

Why is it racist to disagree with Israeli policy? I personally have no problems with jews as such, however i dislike the rabbid zionists that always claim Israel is infallible. I also dislike the fact that US policies are influenced heavily by the Jewish lobby. I think that if Israel's policies were in the interests of America's, there would be no need for a Jewish lobby. I also hate the fact that anytime Pro-Israel people hear a criticism of Israel they claim antisemitism, it is just another tactic to stifle debate. Israel is an entity, it is a state, my dislike of its policies is not a dislike of jews as a race. To pretend it is, is to pretend that jews are genetically programmed to pursue the current Israeli policy and that it is in their blood to bomb indiscriminately. I do not believe this is the case, so please stop linking all jews with the right wing murderous zionists who would expand Israel until it bordered Kent if possible. I do not think they represent all jews and i do not think they should have such a disproportionate amount of power in western nations. Europe is less pro-israel which is why Peewee thinks we're too soft, lets just hope it stays that way.
Consider whether a lobby would be possible in Europe. No? Then why is a lobby possible in the US? Simply because the US population agrees with Zionist ideals. What you are referring to is New Antisemitism. Not all critcism of Israel is this, but much is, especially when the criticism is disproportionate or racially motivated. Also your accusations of expansion are pretty damn unsubstantiated since we've given away nearly all the territories we have occupied due to defensive wars, for the sake of peace, and strive to give more away. Hardly the actions of an imperialistic expansionist nation.

Europe is more left wing, and more anti-Semitic than the US. This is why I don't like Europe. Also - paragraphs. Use them.

You want a critique of Israel?
I point you to Noam Chomsky - the greatest man alive.
Ah the Jew who encourages Holocaust denial. Given the ordeal his own parents went through and he still speaks like this, it is undeniable that this man has no sanity nor intelligence, he is scum.
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crazygirl4521
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#135
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#135
This group is a bit extream.
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ggonex26
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#136
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#136
(Original post by PeeWeeDan)
Of course all of those accusations are the ramblings of someone entirely ignorant on Israeli history, however I'm not going to discuss this in this thread.



Consider whether a lobby would be possible in Europe. No? Then why is a lobby possible in the US? Simply because the US population agrees with Zionist ideals. What you are referring to is New Antisemitism. Not all critcism of Israel is this, but much is, especially when the criticism is disproportionate or racially motivated. Also your accusations of expansion are pretty damn unsubstantiated since we've given away nearly all the territories we have occupied due to defensive wars, for the sake of peace, and strive to give more away. Hardly the actions of an imperialistic expansionist nation.

Europe is more left wing, and more anti-Semitic than the US. This is why I don't like Europe. Also - paragraphs. Use them.



Ah the Jew who encourages Holocaust denial. Given the ordeal his own parents went through and he still speaks like this, it is undeniable that this man has no sanity nor intelligence, he is scum.
Oh so now most criticism of Israel is called "new antisemitism", i thought it was just being a good human being and confronting those that act disproportionately and murderously.

You talk as if the reason Europe is less pro Israel is because Europeans are raving anti-semites, could it not just be that they disagree with Israel's treatment of the palestinians, is that not possible? Can someone not oppose Israel's conduct without being an antisemite? This tactic is tiresome. In order for a government strategy to get the go ahead, it doesn't require that the people support it, it only requires that the majority of people are indifferent and that a lobby supports it. If me and my friends are sitting around and one says lets go to X, if two agree and the rest are indifferent, we are going to X. This is how the system is manipulated. The tail is wagging the dog. Most Americans are or have up until now, been indifferent about how Israel acts or were sympathetic due to the holocaust. This allowed the zionists, many of whom are rich and powerful, to hijack the issue. Dissenters are called anti semites and suffer ad hominem attacks such as your paragraph snipe.

Money and influence has kept the politicians under control. The US media is so biased it's unbelievable. On one occasion the Israelis killed 180 palestinians, three quarters of which were civilians and from a ten minute report this was mentioned in the last 30 seconds with the rest of the report spent demonising the palestinians because they had killed two Israelis. I have heard of an eye for an eye, but is this not a village for an eye? Israel has a right to exist and defend itself, however i can not call this defence, i call it murder and terrorist creation.
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Chaoslord
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#137
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#137
(Original post by maze.e)
This group is a bit extream.
or perhaps, you are not extreme enough
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PeeWeeDan
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#138
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#138
(Original post by George231086)
Oh so now most criticism of Israel is called "new antisemitism", i thought it was just being a good human being and confronting those that act disproportionately and murderously.

You talk as if the reason Europe is less pro Israel is because Europeans are raving anti-semites, could it not just be that they disagree with Israel's treatment of the palestinians, is that not possible? Can someone not oppose Israel's conduct without being an antisemite? This tactic is tiresome. In order for a government strategy to get the go ahead, it doesn't require that the people support it, it only requires that the majority of people are indifferent and that a lobby supports it. If me and my friends are sitting around and one says lets go to X, if two agree and the rest are indifferent, we are going to X. This is how the system is manipulated. The tail is wagging the dog. Most Americans are or have up until now, been indifferent about how Israel acts or were sympathetic due to the holocaust. This allowed the zionists, many of whom are rich and powerful, to hijack the issue. Dissenters are called anti semites and suffer ad hominem attacks such as your paragraph snipe.

Money and influence has kept the politicians under control. The US media is so biased it's unbelievable. On one occasion the Israelis killed 180 palestinians, three quarters of which were civilians and from a ten minute report this was mentioned in the last 30 seconds with the rest of the report spent demonising the palestinians because they had killed two Israelis. I have heard of an eye for an eye, but is this not a village for an eye? Israel has a right to exist and defend itself, however i can not call this defence, i call it murder and terrorist creation.
You didn't actually read what I wrote did you?
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Champagne Breakfast
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#139
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#139
whoa whoa whoa. anti-obama society? deeply uncool :cool:
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Sharpshooter
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#140
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#140
(Original post by Made in the USA)
I don't want to see Obama get in, but I think he has a good chance of winning the election. I think McCain's age and the fact that he doesn't inspire the very conservative Americans will be his undoing. Telling conservatives "You may not love McCain, but Obama is far worse" won't get McCain elected.
Why is that bad? I mean they hardly going to come out now and vote for Obama now are they?

I think the fact that McCain is a centrist will be what could win him this election, people will vote for him by default rather than listen to naive green Obama's whacky radical ideology. It's a while since a liberal actually got in, 1976, and he was a southerner (which turned out to be massive). Even Bill Clinton (another southerner) ran as a moderate.
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