Incident in Streatham declared terror Incident.

Original post by 1st superstar

Quran (2:282) - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court (there is no "he said/she said" gridlock in Islam).

Quran (24:4) - "And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses, flog them..." Strictly speaking, this verse addresses adultery (revealed at the very time that Muhammad's favorite wife was being accused of adultery on the basis of only three witnesses coincidentally enough). However it is a part of the theological underpinning of the Sharia rule on rape, since strict Islamic law does not recognize rape if there are not four male witnesses or a confession.

Quran (24:13) - "Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah."

Quran (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." There is no such thing as rape in marriage, as a man is permitted unrestricted sexual access to his wives.

there ya go (got it from a website)

For the first, the women gets rights over the babies.

Reply 382

Drewski

What does any of this have to do with Streatham?

Reply 383

generallee

16

Original post by ibyghee

can you find me the letter, or something similar to this?
Ia

I have just emailed the Sun to ask. They say their seventh century records are a bit patchy but they are looking into it. I'll let you know what they come back with!

While we wait I think we are all now aware that you are comfortable with the sex part of this whole sex slavery issue. As long as (in your opinion) the woman "enjoyed" it. And you obviously feel that all these war booty women just loved giving bjs to and getting inseminated by the recent beheaders of their loved ones.

How are you with the slavery part? Are you down with that too?

Reply 384

1st superstar

22

Original post by Drewski

What does any of this have to do with Streatham?

idk someone shifted the topic

Reply 385

1st superstar

22

Original post by ibyghee

For the first, the women gets rights over the babies.

but were not doing women vs babies were doing women vs MEN

Reply 386

username1539513

21

Original post by ibyghee

Both sources do not talk about rape during the Islamic period.
Actually find a source where rape happened during the Islamic period.

My evidence is not some made up story, it's a story that's just given as true, everyone knows it as a part of history.

I'm sorry for getting on Ur nerves, but it happens when you try to prove a false statement.

I'm actually rather amused by your self delusion, although I do wonder how you manage to function in life lying to yourself like this. Mores the pity you, I'd rather shoot myself than be a rape apologist like you. People with attitudes like yours are a prime example of why Islam is such a dangerous ideology and should be restricted in the west as it is in China

Reply 387

Original post by AngryRedhead

I'm actually rather amused by your self delusion, although I do wonder how you manage to function in life lying to yourself like this. Mores the pity you, I'd rather shoot myself than be a rape apologist like you. People with attitudes like yours are a prime example of why Islam is such a dangerous ideology and should be restricted in the west as it is in China

I'm sorry for you not finding 1 example of rape in Islam. "Mission failed better luck next time"

Reply 388

username1539513

21

Original post by ibyghee

I'm sorry for you not finding 1 example of rape in Islam. "Mission failed better luck next time"

Most people recognise the examples I've provided as being evidence of slave rape. It's only a minority of people such as yourself trying to argue that's it not despite all evidence being to the contrary. I hope that you find enlightenment soon

Reply 389

Original post by generallee

I have just emailed the Sun to ask. They say their seventh century records are a bit patchy but they are looking into it. I'll let you know what they come back with!

While we wait I think we are all now aware that you are comfortable with the sex part of this whole sex slavery issue. As long as (in your opinion) the woman "enjoyed" it. And you obviously feel that all these war booty women just loved giving bjs to and getting inseminated by the recent beheaders of their loved ones.

How are you with the slavery part? Are you down with that too?

Well from evidence what you explained is true, I'm waiting for evidence of the opposite.
With slavery (another thing QE2, is wrong about) slavery was needed or else of slavery at that time was abolished, those slaves that were already slaves. Would die. Imagine over 2/3 of the countries economy going bust. You realise how much devestation that would cause? The only way to acquire a new slave is either by buying an already slaved person, or a person from war. You cannot go on the street grab someone and say your my slave, much like in America. Freeing slaves was a common practice to rid one of sins. Now if you take all this into account, you realise in time Islam would have abolished slavery if the rules were followed over time. At this point, the only way to acquire a slave is through war and I don't see any religious wars anytime soon.
These slaves were treated like prisoners, not the whipping like you think of in America. The prophet said your slaves should wear what you wear, and eat what you eat. They were given many rights, something unheard of during those times. Apart from this it shows that in Islam the slavery you think of, is not allowed.

Reply 390

Original post by 1st superstar

but were not doing women vs babies were doing women vs MEN

Your verse was about women Vs money?. Are you saying money is more important than babies now?

Reply 391

Original post by AngryRedhead

Most people recognise the examples I've provided as being evidence of slave rape. It's only a minority of people such as yourself trying to argue that's it not despite all evidence being to the contrary. I hope that you find enlightenment soon

Which evidence? The source about pre Islamic era and modern Islam? Can you actually provide a source during the time of the prophet? Or around then. From all the Islamic scriptures you can't find one. Makes me laugh how you can make an assumption, but not find 1 evidence on it. And it's "mission failed, we'll get em next time"

Reply 392

username1539513

21

Original post by ibyghee

Which evidence? The source about pre Islamic era and modern Islam? Can you actually provide a source during the time of the prophet? Or around then. From all the Islamic scriptures you can't find one. Makes me laugh how you can make an assumption, but not find 1 evidence on it. And it's "mission failed, we'll get em next time"

I've already provided you a quote from the Quran, the fact that you refuse to recognise it as allowing rape doesn't make it any less rape.

Reply 393

Original post by AngryRedhead

I've already provided you a quote from the Quran, the fact that you refuse to recognise it as allowing rape doesn't make it any less rape.

Which quote? I'm sorry I didn't see it.

Reply 394

Original post by AngryRedhead

I've already provided you a quote from the Quran, the fact that you refuse to recognise it as allowing rape doesn't make it any less rape.

The quote about permitting sex with slaves, you said it doesn't say you need consent. I'm tryna find where it says you don't need consent. If you find a quote where it says you don't need consent, then your point is proven fact is, you won't. This is too fun, the fact that you can't provide any evidence of it.

Reply 395

Original post by ibyghee

Key word, presume. I can prove that Safiya didn't do it out of self preservation. Which woman would say you're the moon that fell on my lap. On the 1st night of meeting the killer of her husband? I'm still waiting for a piece of evidence of the opposite.

Exactly. What woman would say that unless they were scared for their safety? If you think that your safety depends on someone liking you, you will suck up to them. It's really not that difficult.
Also, you can't use hagiographical anecdote as "evidence" for historical events.

And to repeat yet again, your anecdotes are irrelevant to the issue, so I'm not sure why you keep going on about them. Even if there were ten captured women who agreed to have sex with their captors out of self interest, Islam still allows behaviour that is classed as rape. Why don't you address that? I notice you have been completely avoiding that.

Reply 396

Original post by ibyghee

With my argument, there is no evidence that he did or did not have sex with men. With my point, I gave a piece of evidence that a woman was happy having sex. You gave 0. Thus proving my point. You don't seem to understand your own analogy.

So you agree that you can't prove that he didn't. You can't produce a single hadith saying that Muhammad did not have sex with men. Therefore, he did. That is what you are saying with your "If you can't produce a hadith where a woman says "I did not want to have sex", they all wanted to have sex" argument.

Even if a person accepted having a tooth taken out, you would expect someone to say "I know this is good for me, but I wish it didn't happen" you can find on twitter someone complaining about it. But you won't a single woman unhappy with sex in all the Islamic scriptures.
All your analogies just fail miserably and prove my point more

You really don't have any point at all. Your argument relies entirely on the claim that because two women accepted having sex with their captors, every captive woman was happy to have sex with their captors.
1. That is an obvious non sequitur (one thing doesn't follow the other)
2. It is irrelevant to my point that Islam permits rape (in the context of current law).

The fact that you keep avoiding the issue and banging on about this crazy idea that all captured women wanted to have sex with their captors, just shows that you clearly have no legs to stand on.
As a matter of interest, do you think that all women have always wanted to have sex with their captors, during every conflict in history? Or it it something specific to 7th century Arab women?

Reply 397

username4969948

16

Original post by ibyghee

I'm sorry for you not finding 1 example of rape in Islam. "Mission failed better luck next time"

If you want to see plenty examples of rape in Islam, you just need to look at how many Islamic countries don't recognise marital rape as a crime.

Sadly, as long as apologists like yourself continue to skirt over this issue, Muslim women will continue to be raped.

Reply 398

Original post by ibyghee

So you use assumption over evidence? You can assume something, but you can't find 1 bit of evidence to prove it?
In science that's a hypothesis, not even a theory. Actually find a piece of evidence from the thousands of pages of scripture to prove it, then come back to me. So far you've only assumed, but you can't find any piece of evidence to back it up.

The only hard evidence is that the Quran permits men to use their female captives for sex, and there are sahih hadith that record it actually happening.
Everything else, including your claim that all the women were happy to have sex with their captors, is just assumption. And your assumption flies in the face of logic and reason and experience, whereas the assumption that women whose menfolk have just been slaughtered would not be happy about having sex with their killers, is entirely reasonable and logical.

Reply 399