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Is AS Further Maths enough for university-level Mathematics?

I've just recently finished my A Levels and took Maths, Physics, Chemistry and AS Level Further Maths. I only took AS FM because I realised too late that I would need it for uni and so studied it by myself (without any school assistance) in Year 13. I've covered a small amount of the Year 13 FM content (Basically Polar Coordinates and Hyperbolic Functions) on top of the AS content, but will that be enough? I've applied for Bath and Nottingham University which have both given me offers for AS FM but I'm just not sure I'll be able to hack it. I've been told I should either switch to a different course (which I could do but really don't want to as I love maths - though I've been suggested to take Maths WITH Physics if i don't get the required grades) or take a year out and teach myself the A-Level FM course and take the A-Level for that next year, only issue is it would mean I'd feel really separated from my friends and all that (even if we aren't attending the same unis). Of course it's possible that neither uni accepts me in the first place as I'm still waiting on my grades in the first place. I just really wanted to know if I'd be able to survive university-level maths with AS FM content alone or if I'd be struggling to keep up.
And also as a side note, since I taught myself the content, is it worth calling up the unis to ask for a reduced offer? My maths teacher told me I would likely receive a reduced offer because of it but had to fight on calls for a place at Bath when they have they already have offers that include AS FM so I don't see why I had to fight for it instead of being offered it straight away.
Original post by n.mcco
I've just recently finished my A Levels and took Maths, Physics, Chemistry and AS Level Further Maths. I only took AS FM because I realised too late that I would need it for uni and so studied it by myself (without any school assistance) in Year 13. I've covered a small amount of the Year 13 FM content (Basically Polar Coordinates and Hyperbolic Functions) on top of the AS content, but will that be enough?
And also as a side note, since I taught myself the content, is it worth calling up the unis to ask for a reduced offer? My maths teacher told me I would likely receive a reduced offer because of it but had to fight on calls for a place at Bath when they have they already have offers that include AS FM so I don't see why I had to fight for it instead of being offered it straight away.

No, don't call for a reduced offer - it's a waste of time. You are fortunate they've even offered you a place and it was your choice to study FMaths by yourself - you could have joined a class at school.
Reply 2
Original post by Muttley79
No, don't call for a reduced offer - it's a waste of time. You are fortunate they've even offered you a place and it was your choice to study FMaths by yourself - you could have joined a class at school.


My school didn't offer further maths as a subject, which is why I had to teach it to myself in the first place.
Original post by n.mcco
My school didn't offer further maths as a subject, which is why I had to teach it to myself in the first place.


Are you in the UK? All school in the UK can offer FMaths ...
Reply 4
I am, if I remember correctly only 3 students in my year signed up for it and they said something about being too understaffed to run actual courses for it I think, I was only told way later on in the year that I'd need it for uni (hadn't even crossed my mind) so I learned the AS over summer and Year 13 by myself since they still didn't run classes
Reply 5
Original post by n.mcco
I am, if I remember correctly only 3 students in my year signed up for it and they said something about being too understaffed to run actual courses for it I think, I was only told way later on in the year that I'd need it for uni (hadn't even crossed my mind) so I learned the AS over summer and Year 13 by myself since they still didn't run classes


Well you don't "need it for uni" - there are only a few UK unis that require FM, so you still have plenty of choices :smile:
Original post by davros
Well you don't "need it for uni" - there are only a few UK unis that require FM, so you still have plenty of choices :smile:

a few years ago there seemed to be much fewer, (Cambridge didn't used to, on paper, until a few years ago) but a pretty good proportion of the top UK universities for maths now seem to require further maths. Bath, which the OP has listed, now wants people to do at least AS FM as a rule. (I swear when I applied nearly 5 years ago they did not require FM at all, I think UCL didn't either but they do now)

Though OP is in a better position than many because their school couldn't offer FM, it still seems to make it much harder to get in to top universities that usually require FM (Oxford, Imperial, etc.). Whether this is because people without FM tend to be weaker mathematically (and so don't give a good showing on the MAT/TMUA/etc.) or because it casts serious doubt on their application would be another question.
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by n.mcco
I am, if I remember correctly only 3 students in my year signed up for it and they said something about being too understaffed to run actual courses for it I think, I was only told way later on in the year that I'd need it for uni (hadn't even crossed my mind) so I learned the AS over summer and Year 13 by myself since they still didn't run classes


All schools in England can offer FMaths through AMSP - it's taught online

https://amsp.org.uk/

"The programme provides national support for teachers and students in state-funded schools and colleges in England. Additional, targeted support is offered in areas of low social mobility and low participation in Level 3 maths with the aim of increasing opportunities for all students to study maths post-16, regardless of their location, gender, ethnicity, or background."
a few years ago there seemed to be much fewer, (Cambridge didn't used to, on paper, until a few years ago) but a pretty good proportion of the top UK universities for maths now seem to require further maths. Bath, which the OP has listed, now wants people to do at least AS FM as a rule. (I swear when I applied nearly 5 years ago they did not require FM at all, I think UCL didn't either but they do now)

Though OP is in a better position than many because their school couldn't offer FM, it still seems to make it much harder to get in to top universities that usually require FM (Oxford, Imperial, etc.). Whether this is because people without FM tend to be weaker mathematically (and so don't give a good showing on the MAT/TMUA/etc.) or because it casts serious doubt on their application would be another question.


They could though through AMSP - they just didn't bother
Original post by Muttley79
All schools in England can offer FMaths through AMSP - it's taught online

https://amsp.org.uk/

"The programme provides national support for teachers and students in state-funded schools and colleges in England. Additional, targeted support is offered in areas of low social mobility and low participation in Level 3 maths with the aim of increasing opportunities for all students to study maths post-16, regardless of their location, gender, ethnicity, or background."

would point out that universities still have allowances for people who "can't take FM" or "whose school doesn't offer FM" (more or less their wording) so I don't think AMSP is viewed by them as a definitive solution.
(edited 1 year ago)
would point out that universities still have allowances for people who "can't take FM" or "whose school doesn't offer FM" (more or less their wording) so I don't think AMSP is viewed by them as a definitive solution.

It won't apply in England though because ALL state school have that option.
Original post by Muttley79
They could though through AMSP - they just didn't bother

we posted at the same time sorry

either universities are mainly thinking of people outside the UK when they say that or they don't think the AMSP is universal/etc. enough to make FM a hard requirement and just point applicants to it.
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Muttley79
It won't apply in England though because ALL state school have that option.

i think this would have been stipulated by the university if it were the case, but I think not offering FM as a "normal subject" would be sufficient to those unis for those purposes.

I don't really know enough about the AMSP to comment whether this is the correct approach from them and whether they should just ask applicants to use it.
(edited 1 year ago)
Many schools can only offer fm at AS or possibly only off timetable. Maths degrees cater for a level only even if they do this via a pre term top up.
i think this would have been stipulated by the university if it were the case, but I think not offering FM as a "normal subject" would be sufficient to those unis for those purposes.

I don't really know enough about the AMSP to comment whether this is the correct approach from them and whether they should just ask applicants to use it.

No - it's wrong for schools to 'pretend' they can't offer it. It's a relatively cheap way and the support is brilliant. I know friends who teach in a secondary modern where two or three use AMSP every year and do well.
Well, my daughter did fm off timetable because a teacher volunteered to teach it. I taught it at a sixth form part time because they did not have the staff and there was no prospect of the necessary staff being available.
Time tables are complex and maths teachers (especially fm) are in short supply.
If you are in a fairly well to do area or have the luxury of dealing with a selective sixth form as opposed to one in a challenging area then you can probably find an fm course.

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