IRA withdraws weapons commitment Watch

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technik
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#61
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#61
(Original post by yawn)
Considering your predilections and 'loyality' to unionism it isn't rocket science to know, even before you open your mouth, who you are going to want to believe.
I have given you the possible reasoning for the accusations and you choose to ignore the likelihood on a reunification of Ireland with the Dublin government being at the helm.
Much is done in history at times such as this that is, in hindsight, grossly unjust and that goes for scapegoating too. Look back at history through time immemorial and especially in British history and you will see.
there will be no united ireland. trying to enforce it would make the troubles look a pisstake.

id happily take a united ireland, under dublin rule, as part of a new UK of GB & I. contrary to what you think, i have no problem with the irish people, or with those of any religious persuasion. just with terrorists. would you accept that scenario? a central london body...and then regional parliaments for the 4 nations?
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NDGAARONDI
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#62
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#62
(Original post by technik)
a question for you yawn. if it wasnt SF/IRA...who was it in your opinion?
*awaiting answer*
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yawn
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#63
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#63
(Original post by NDGAARONDI)
*awaiting answer*
"If Sinn Fein or the IRA didn't do it, who do you think did?"

Securocrats - whose aim has always being to prevent the sharing of power between the two communities in Northern Ireland. Wouldn't be the first time they got up to skullduggery to put the kibbosh on it and certainly won't be the last time.
The others in the Republic are just jumping on the band wagon and condoning it.
May God forgive them.
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technik
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#64
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#64
(Original post by yawn)
"If Sinn Fein or the IRA didn't do it, who do you think did?"

Securocrats - whose aim has always being to prevent the sharing of power between the two communities in Northern Ireland. Wouldn't be the first time they got up to skullduggery to put the kibbosh on it and certainly won't be the last time.
The others in the Republic are just jumping on the band wagon and condoning it.
May God forgive them.
er...yes. ok. very...plausible :confused: . any reasons for thinking its "securocrats"? and any sort of backup and/or sources that show agreement with your position?
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yawn
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#65
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#65
(Original post by technik)
there will be no united ireland. trying to enforce it would make the troubles look a pisstake.

id happily take a united ireland, under dublin rule, as part of a new UK of GB & I. contrary to what you think, i have no problem with the irish people, or with those of any religious persuasion. just with terrorists. would you accept that scenario? a central london body...and then regional parliaments for the 4 nations?
I don't think your idea would be acceptable to the people in the Republic!

Why should they be subject to a central London body? Who would you see heading this central London body? The Irish or the British?

Ireland has their own autonomy and successful economy and it is foolish to suggest that they give up these things to become one with England.
There are no terrorists - there are only 'freedom fighters'
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yawn
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#66
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#66
(Original post by technik)
er...yes. ok. very...plausible :confused: . any reasons for thinking its "securocrats"? and any sort of backup and/or sources that show agreement with your position?

The recent past has given us the evidence that 'securocrats' have been involved in all sorts of treachery.
I'm sure you would have a lot more information about the truth of this than I?
We could make a start with Brian Nelson - yes?
I have to go on an important mission with a dinner plate at the moment! I'll come back when I can.
Adios bandidos!
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technik
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#67
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#67
(Original post by yawn)
I don't think your idea would be acceptable to the people in the Republic!

Why should they be subject to a central London body? Who would you see heading this central London body? The Irish or the British?

Ireland has their own autonomy and successful economy and it is foolish to suggest that they give up these things to become one with England.
There are no terrorists - there are only 'freedom fighters'
and a united ireland wont be acceptable to many in NI and the rest of the UK.

central london body - the parliament we have now you divvy. it would be "run" by those elected to it...

to become one with england...what have you been ingesting? read over what you've said, reword, and try again.

there are no terrorists? well i just hold that with contempt. thats an idiotic statement if i ever saw one.
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technik
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#68
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#68
(Original post by yawn)
The recent past has given us the evidence that 'securocrats' have been involved in all sorts of treachery.
I'm sure you would have a lot more information about the truth of this than I?
We could make a start with Brian Nelson - yes?
I have to go on an important mission with a dinner plate at the moment! I'll come back when I can.
Adios bandidos!
sorry...im not going to provide any information for you. i asked you to provide it to the rest of us. seems you arent going to though. surprising that... :rolleyes:
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NDGAARONDI
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#69
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#69
(Original post by yawn)
There are no terrorists - there are only 'freedom fighters'
Don't mind if I go and make explosives to use in Rome because the Italian Prime Minister's ancient ancestors were Roman soldiers who raped some of my friends' ancestors do you?
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Chrism
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#70
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#70
(Original post by yawn)
Whatever.... :rolleyes:
He's actually quite right, and you completely wrong. The .com is a generic TLD, i.e. not restricted to one country. The country TLD for the United States is, unsurprisingly, .us
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yawn
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Chrism)
He's actually quite right, and you completely wrong. The .com is a generic TLD, i.e. not restricted to one country. The country TLD for the United States is, unsurprisingly, .us
How does that resolve the discussion pertinent to this thread? :rolleyes:
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yawn
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#72
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#72
Technik says: "central london body - the parliament we have now you divvy. it would be "run" by those elected to it.."

"you divvy" - gosh, my gran used to get a divvy from the Co-Op! I haven't heard that expression for the derogotary use you meant it for since I was in primary school - how old are you?

Some people (particularly those who find it difficult to hold a debate together) tend to descend to the use of personal insults when they become lost for words. I shall not join you in that abyss!

You are seriously suggesting that the Republic of Ireland is run by a government located in London, headed by a British Prime Minister? :rolleyes:

Do you think that going back to the time when the whole of Ireland was under the rule of London is a good idea. It didn't work then and it wouldn't work now. We have to look at the question of Ireland in the context of the whole of Ireland and although the DUP/UDA and UUP/PUP would create a bit of a fuss for a while they would eventually come to accept that they would be much better of in a united Ireland.
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yawn
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#73
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#73
(Original post by technik)
er...yes. ok. very...plausible :confused: . any reasons for thinking its "securocrats"? and any sort of backup and/or sources that show agreement with your position?
OK - I'm back! By the way thanks for the neg rep - unsigned as usual!

I have already told you about the Allied Irish Bank raid in Dublin in 1973 when the IRA were accused (as now, without any evidence, only suspicion) of the raid. The Dublin government were harrassed by the British government to impose greater sanctions against the IRA. The outcome was that the raid was carried out by the Littlejohn brothers on the instructions of the securocrats in British intelligence as a way of discrediting republicans and causing an even greater chasm between the three sides. The brothers said during their trial that they were on contract to the securocrats and this was corroborated later by Jack Lynch, former Taoseach of the Republic, who confirmed that he had been told by the British government that the Littlejohn's were on contract to the British government. Incidentally, one of the brother's escaped and have never been found, the other was released early and went to live in Northern Ireland!

Then we have the Great Train Robbery (Ireland) of 1976 that remains of immense political significance, not solely because it led to the longest political trial in Irish legal history at the cost of well over #1 million, not because State repression became the focus of international attention and to some extent to the downfall of a Coalition Government, but because it failed in its main attempt to discredit and pave the way for the suppression of the Irish Republican Socialist Party (IRSP).
The robbery of #620,000 from an unguarded train in Kearneystown, Co. Kildare, in the early morning of March 31st. 1976, led to a political storm (much as now in fact! :rolleyes: )
The Garda Commissioner at the time conveyed urgency down the garda ranks, and the Special Branch used the occasion to misinform the Cabinet that the IRSP were responsible for the Kildare robbery.
A smear campaign against Seamus Costello and the IRSP by the gardai without any evidence (sound familiar?) was launched and was assisted by the media.
Osgur Breathnach and Brian McNally were sentenced to 12 and 9 years respectively. Nicky Kelly, now a member of the Labour Party, was sentenced in his absence.
A national and international campaign began for the release of the IRSP Three, and 17 months later, in May 1980, Brian and Osgur were freed. The Court of Criminal Appeal to date has given no reason for its decision to free Osgur and Brian. Nicky Kelly was imprisoned on his return to Ireland and later freed.
Is history repeating itself?
Could it be that the Irish and English Government's are playing out the same game plan to undermine the position of Sinn Fein and its leadership?
With what occurred during the investigation of the Great Train Robbery in Kells,a frame-up remains a possibility that must be taken seriously.
Is it possible that the increased mandate of Sinn Fein and the popularity of its leadership is what is behind the naming of the IRA as responsible for the Northern Bank raid and the unsubstantiated accusation that the leadership of Sinn Fein had advance knowledge of this impending heist?
Draw your own conclusions.
One last thing that really puzzles me - if intelligence reports have led to Hugh Orde saying that he is sure the raid was carried out by the IRA, one would presume that intelligence knew the raid was imminent as they must have heard the plans that the IRA were going to do it. Now presuming that this is the case then (i) why did they not prevent it and (ii) why were they not there when it happened so as they could catch them red-handed?
What is strange is that they received a report from the public that something was going on at the bank and yet they arrived at the scene ten minutes after the get-away. :confused:
You will have noticed by now that I have a healthy cynicism for the media and governments, wherever they may be - I like to do my own investigative journalism!
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Chrism
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#74
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#74
(Original post by yawn)
How does that resolve the discussion pertinent to this thread? :rolleyes:
You introduced the .com assertion to the thread. I merely pointed out you were wrong. No need to get touchy, we all make mistakes occasionally.
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yawn
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#75
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#75
(Original post by Chrism)
You introduced the .com assertion to the thread. I merely pointed out you were wrong. No need to get touchy, we all make mistakes occasionally.
Not touchy in the slightest. I would have just expected that if you were interested enough to enter into this thread then you would have posted something more pertinent to the substance.
I just find it strange that you didn't. :cool:
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Chrism
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#76
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#76
I was reading through the thread. I just happened to notice the .com bit and decided to correct the misapprehension. I generally don't like to post in a thread unless I'm adding something new to the discussion, and didn't really see the point in echoing comments made by other people.
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yawn
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#77
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#77
I have to say, at this point, that I agree that in order for the Good Friday agreement to get back on course, one of the salient aspects that have to be resolved (but by no means, the only one) is 'criminality' carried out by both republicans and loyalists.

I refer back to the third report from the (Independent?) Monitoring Commission published in November, 2004. It's conclusions were that whilst there had been a substantial drop in criminal activity by the IRA there had been a marked increase in criminal activity by the Loyalist 'brigands/drug dealers/punishment beatings etc.'

There needs to be more of a focus on this side of the divide - I have yet to find one condemnation from Ian Paisley on the activities of the loyalists - and believe me I have done much trawling on the web to acquaint myself with the situation!
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yawn
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#78
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#78
(Original post by Chrism)
I was reading through the thread. I just happened to notice the .com bit and decided to correct the misapprehension. I generally don't like to post in a thread unless I'm adding something new to the discussion, and didn't really see the point in echoing comments made by other people.
No worries - explanation accepted - and thanks for your tacit support.
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technik
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#79
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#79
(Original post by yawn)
I have to say, at this point, that I agree that in order for the Good Friday agreement to get back on course, one of the salient aspects that have to be resolved (but by no means, the only one) is 'criminality' carried out by both republicans and loyalists.

I refer back to the third report from the (Independent?) Monitoring Commission published in November, 2004. It's conclusions were that whilst there had been a substantial drop in criminal activity by the IRA there had been a marked increase in criminal activity by the Loyalist 'brigands/drug dealers/punishment beatings etc.'

There needs to be more of a focus on this side of the divide - I have yet to find one condemnation from Ian Paisley on the activities of the loyalists - and believe me I have done much trawling on the web to acquaint myself with the situation!
time to look harder then...its not difficult, although i fail to see what a condemnation would do to stop any activity. the reason the IRA is focused on is because they have representatives in/or previously in the stormont government. luckily, loyalists/unionists seem generally smart enough to not bother voting for parties that support terrorists. shame the nationalists arent quite as bright. its ok though, blame the unionists for that too...denying them their rights and education etc... :rolleyes:
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yawn
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#80
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#80
(Original post by technik)
time to look harder then...its not difficult, although i fail to see what a condemnation would do to stop any activity. the reason the IRA is focused on is because they have representatives in/or previously in the stormont government. luckily, loyalists/unionists seem generally smart enough to not bother voting for parties that support terrorists. shame the nationalists arent quite as bright. its ok though, blame the unionists for that too...denying them their rights and education etc... :rolleyes:
I was under the impression that the DUP/UUP had the PUP as their representatives on the 'unlawful' fringes. I remember one David Ervine sitting in the Assembly along with everyone else. That was the whole idea, wasn't it? Inclusion.

There you go again, making disparaging remarks against a whole swathe of your fellow countrymen, simply because they are nationalists. It does not add to being able to take your opinions seriously. You just indicate that you are a bigot!
And shouldn't you be revising for your GCSE's?
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