it does not go into enough depth to converse with people of other languages (you need to study to at least A Level in order to hold a half decent conversation)

•

If you're not of native level fluency, you're not likely able to use it in the workplace

•

Most people who don't use the foreign language tend to forget most of it the moment they leave school, and most don't

•

English is more or less the national language in most countries in the world, so a standard English speaker would be able to tranverse most of the world without needing to know another language, should they decide to go around the world

•

Should they decide to learn a language, they often would do it themselves using their own intiative - not that you should force people to learn things they don't want to learn

•

Most kids don't have the choice of which language they want to learn unless it's a third optional language (French being an almost mandatory language in the school curriculum, and often people of ethnic communities often 'require' their kids to study GCSE in their native language)

•

In any particular scenario in work or higher education, GCSE in a language is not a necessary requirement

•

A Levels in specific languages do not technically require GCSEs in the language in order to do them (the exam boards don't require it, but the colleges do) - not that it's recommended not to have it prior to doing A Levels

•

Should people wish to learn a language, it's often due to reasons other than for learning about the culture and language

•

Students are under no circumstances would require to have more than 5 GCSEs, and requiring students to study more GCSEs than necessary can work against them especially if it's a language

•

If it's not a necessary requirement, it can be hypothesised that the majority won't choose to study it

On the other hand:

•

Other countries teach multiple languages, often with English being their second language; it's going to make our children ignorant and arrogant if they don't learn it

•

Exposure to different languages would develop certain types of intelligence and it can have synergetic effects on learning in general

•

Exposure to different languages can encourage students to explore the subject - even though there are ethical issues with this as well as being a very ineffective way of going about it

•

Speaking a few words in other languages can often be enough to break the ice with people of the native language - even though sometimes you wonder whether you're at best humouring them

So, no.

Disclaimer (not that it matters): I have studied multiple languages at GCSE, and I enjoy learning languages.

(edited 3 months ago)

Reply 3

artful_lounger

Universities Forum Helper

21

If it were mandatory from KS1 then I could see a rationale for it, as that could allow students to leave school with reasonable proficiency in at least one other language (which might put the UK on par minimally with most of the rest of Europe). However it's not required at KS1 currently (and when I was in school wasn't even mandatory in KS2) so I think the chances of students attaining that proficiency relatively low and it might just then force students to do a subject they may perform poorly in and put them off further language study later.

I do think studying other languages is important and should be integrated far better than it currently is, but between the current format of UK education being so exam centric and also it only being started later in schooling years, I think it's harder to justify. If modern language study continued in KS3 as a non-GCSE component (like PE) that might be something though, as then students continue with the language but the pressure to perform well in exams is minimised unless they opt to do the GCSE. Perhaps an ideal situation would it being initiated in KS1 and continued through KS3, but kept as non-examinable like PE (just assessed internally) would work?

And I'm saying this as someone who did a GCSE in an MFL subject and is now studying languages (granted, ancient ones) at degree level. I did not enjoy my GCSE language course as I was essentially forced into it by my parent, and it put me off considering languages at all really for a long time.

(edited 3 months ago)

Reply 4

Zarek

21

As a strategy it doesn’t seem to be helping break out of our woeful state of affairs in language competence. Most of my EU colleagues are trilingual. Although we can get away with it because of the status of English, it does make us look intellectually inferior. Although it’s not working I would be reluctant to take it away, we wouldn’t even be able to say ‘deux bières s’il vous plait’ then

Reply 5

hotpud

18

Original post by MindMax2000

No, because:

•

it's not necessary for students to know in order to survive in the real world (at least in English speaking countries)

•

it does not go into enough depth to converse with people of other languages (you need to study to at least A Level in order to hold a half decent conversation)

•

If you're not of native level fluency, you're not likely able to use it in the workplace

•

Most people who don't use the foreign language tend to forget most of it the moment they leave school, and most don't

•

English is more or less the national language in most countries in the world, so a standard English speaker would be able to tranverse most of the world without needing to know another language, should they decide to go around the world

•

Should they decide to learn a language, they often would do it themselves using their own intiative - not that you should force people to learn things they don't want to learn

•

Most kids don't have the choice of which language they want to learn unless it's a third optional language (French being an almost mandatory language in the school curriculum, and often people of ethnic communities often 'require' their kids to study GCSE in their native language)

•

In any particular scenario in work or higher education, GCSE in a language is not a necessary requirement

•

A Levels in specific languages do not technically require GCSEs in the language in order to do them (the exam boards don't require it, but the colleges do) - not that it's recommended not to have it prior to doing A Levels

•

Should people wish to learn a language, it's often due to reasons other than for learning about the culture and language

•

Students are under no circumstances would require to have more than 5 GCSEs, and requiring students to study more GCSEs than necessary can work against them especially if it's a language

•

If it's not a necessary requirement, it can be hypothesised that the majority won't choose to study it

On the other hand:

•

Other countries teach multiple languages, often with English being their second language; it's going to make our children ignorant and arrogant if they don't learn it

•

Exposure to different languages would develop certain types of intelligence and it can have synergetic effects on learning in general

•

Exposure to different languages can encourage students to explore the subject - even though there are ethical issues with this as well as being a very ineffective way of going about it

•

Speaking a few words in other languages can often be enough to break the ice with people of the native language - even though sometimes you wonder whether you're at best humouring them

So, no.

Disclaimer (not that it matters): I have studied multiple languages at GCSE, and I enjoy learning languages.

I think we need to move away from this rather harmful educational idea that seems to be growing that everything we do educationally has to be for some end goal.

We should learn another language regardless of whether it is useful because is teaches us about different ways of communicating and different cultures. It is also good for the mind as you think differently.

The problem we face in this country is in the way it is taught. It is a joke that pretty much every country in the non-English speaking world can teach English to fluency yet we can't teach another language to the same level.

You are right. A foreign language often isn't required but having one opens all sorts of doors most probably are unaware of.

Reply 6

spammbo

13

Original post by person1871

Interested to see what other people think

i'm torn on this one. on the one hand, literally every other country in europe learns another language, and i'm tired of the number of brits who take it for granted that every random country they visit will speak english and get genuinely upset/angry when they don't. i think learning another language, even if they don't take it all the way to fluency, will help.

on the other hand, the way languages are taught in the uk is absolute garbage. not conversational, no real understanding of how sentences and words are constructed/used, etc. not to mention some students may have learning difficulties/disabilities that would make this extremely challenging and stressful.

idk i think if we reworked how languages are taught in uk schools it would be great, but until then it wouldn't be of much actual help to students.

No it shouldn’t be mandatory to do the GCSE.

I would instead make it mandatory for pupils to learning a second language the moment they start school (reception or pre-school, wherever the pupil properly starts school) rather than from 7 years old but allow under all circumstances, for the pupil to drop learning a language and refuse to do GCSE MFL once it’s time for them to choose their GCSE options if that’s what the student chooses to do. Have exceptions for certain pupils when it comes to them learning a second language e.g people where English isn’t their first language, some pupils with learning difficulties, pupils who are struggling in a lot in other subjects (Maths and English especially) etc

I’m against forcing students to do GCSE MFL, it should be optional regardless of your academic ability or whatever other nonsense. Coming from someone who does languages and heavily dislikes how monolingual people from Anglophone countries are.

Reply 8

MindMax2000

Universities Forum Helper

21

Original post by hotpud

I think we need to move away from this rather harmful educational idea that seems to be growing that everything we do educationally has to be for some end goal.

We should learn another language regardless of whether it is useful because is teaches us about different ways of communicating and different cultures. It is also good for the mind as you think differently.

The problem we face in this country is in the way it is taught. It is a joke that pretty much every country in the non-English speaking world can teach English to fluency yet we can't teach another language to the same level.

You are right. A foreign language often isn't required but having one opens all sorts of doors most probably are unaware of.

I'm starting to get this impression that we're going to end up being each other's favourites for these educational debates.

I think we need to move away from this rather harmful educational idea that seems to be growing that everything we do educationally has to be for some end goal.
As much as I would like to be in a situation where people can learn for the sake of learning, this is going to be difficult to persuade people to do and that it's very difficult for people not choosing to learn something for an end goal. It's not that common that people would be so passionate about a subject that they would go out of their way to learn about it.

In fact, according to mainstream psychology, we as a species are motivated by goals. Not having specific goals can really damper our motivation for learning. The people who achieved top grades also tend to learn with set end goals in mind. The current UK education system teaches on the basis of goals and objectives, with the intention of moving towards some end goal (unless you want to correct me on this).

With the current amount of knowledge out there, we could spend an entire lifetime learning, and still have more to learn. Our time is limited on this earth, and we have (or want) a million and one things to do within that timespan. We need to manage the time appropriately, and we can't spend it all on learning; the discipline needs to be instilled early on in our education (as it is).

We should learn another language regardless of whether it is useful because is teaches us about different ways of communicating and different cultures. It is also good for the mind as you think differently.
I agree with this and it's one of the reasons why I go out of my way to learn languages myself. However, it's difficult to maintain knowledge of a language you don't use or at least have the opportunity of using.
If you learn a language at a basic level, would that be sufficient to introduce a new way of thinking for kids? I don't know enough to comment on this.

As mentioned previously, the motivation for learning languages need to be personal to the learner i.e. the source of motivation needs to be intrinsic. Mandating the learning of the language is going to be counterproductive in terms of progress as well as the learner end up despising the language and culture.

Foreign languages isn't one of those subjects where you can learn well if you're not interested in it.

It is a joke that pretty much every country in the non-English speaking world can teach English to fluency yet we can't teach another language to the same level.
Quite agree, and it's quite embarrasing for the country's education system. However, that's more about the prestige of the country's education system than the interest of the individual learner.
I'm more interested in what the individual learner wants. The option to study the language should be there, but it should never be mandated just for the ego of others.

You are right. A foreign language often isn't required but having one opens all sorts of doors most probably are unaware of.
I appreciate the acknowledgement.

I am not aware of the said doors you are referring to though. Unless you are of a native level speaker of a language, it's likely that your language abilities would not be appreciated or utilised in any particular setting - be it work, socially, familial, etc.
The particular scenarios where I see language being used is in customer facing work, and unless you're working in a company or associated with people in an international company or organisation, it's unlikely you would ever need to use the language in the UK.
Should you wish to travel abroad, you would likely need at least A Level standard of fluency (B2 under the CEFR framework) before you can get anywhere fast (unless you're in a metropolitan area where they speak English). Native level of fluency is more often expected, and that often require extensive and/or intensive study.

Reply 9

Emma:-)

Entertainment Forum Helper

19

I think it would be useful for everyone to learn another language.
A lot of other countries seem to learn other languages (and from younger ages too). We should more.
I cant really comment on the teaching side of things as its been a while since i left school. But we should deffo do another laguage.

Should it be mandatory for students to take a language GCSE?

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