What would you like

That's really true, because no working class family can afford the fees. My family is middle and they couldn't afford it.

That's really true, because no working class family can afford the fees. My family is middle and they couldn't afford it.

Yeah, you can. What you do is, you work really hard all your life, get a good job with a fairly good income, and then save.

Please, highlight the objective demarcations between "working" and "middle" classes. I must confess that I'm having trouble resolving the distinction, myself.

get a good job

At which point, in the definitions of many, you leave the Working Class.

In that case, you in fact were middle class.

Didn't stop 'em being born working class though... Clearly, you do magically become middle class then.

What the hell? No offense, but what kind of logic is that? How could anybody ever chance class if you can't change from one to the other in a lifetime?

How do you explain the fact that the number of middle class people in England has rapidly risen in the last 50 or so years if it's impossible to change.

What the hell? No offense, but what kind of logic is that? How could anybody ever chance class if you can't change from one to the other in a lifetime?

How do you explain the fact that the number of middle class people in England has rapidly risen in the last 50 or so years if it's impossible to change.

Again: define "middle" class.

Again: define "middle" class.

I'm not saying it's impossible to change; to be honest, I don't particularly see why you suddenly switch from one to the other when you save money to send your kids to a good school. What makes you suddenly middle class? A good job? Private school kids? Saving?

I don't see the relevance of class at all really. The reason I stuck my nose in in the first place is that I don't get the sweeping generalisation that 'middle classes have private schools and working classes don't'.

The middle class is colloquially used in English to refer to highly paid white collar workers. These workers usually have a tertiary education. They possess jobs which are perceived to be "secure". This colloquial middle class has historically low rates of union membership, high rates of house or long-term lease ownership, and is perceived to believe in bourgeois values.

Most sociological definitions of middle class follow Max Weber. Here the middle class is defined by a similar income level as semi-professionals, or business owners; by a shared culture of domesticity and sub-urbanity; and, by a level of relative security against social crisis in the form of socially desired skill or wealth.

The size of the middle class depends on how it is defined. By education, money or wealth, environment of upbringing, birth (genetic relationships), social network, etc. These are all related, though far from deterministically dependent.

Thats the best definition I could find

I think it's in the values, and can be shown in recreation activities also.

Or that, I'm too lazy to make a proper definition. This is general chat afterall.

Sudden switch? I thought you said they worked hard all their life and saved. That's not magically changing in my book. If they're so dedicated to private educaation they're adoption m/c norms and values, hence becoming m/c.

Of course that was a generalisation, I was making a point. As I said before, I'm m/c and was state school educated.

Please elaborate. What values? What "recreational activities"? In what way do they conclusively supersede "grades" as a means of predicting future success? And for that matter, what constitutes "success"?

Hehehe *is a google hore* Its quite a hard thing to define when you sit down and try to define it

Perhaps; it definitely does depend on how middle class is defined then. Though my mother will tell you she still considers herself working class

Cheers for the debate, was quite entertaining! Have to go and do an essay now though Take care all!