Choosing an Oxford College

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it's not unique to Christ Church

For room allocation, scholars/exhibitioners (typically awarded if you get a 1st in prelims OR are recommended by tutors for high achievement throughout the year) get first choice in their year.

Some senior members of the JCR committee currently also get a priority choice, although this is being reviewed.

Everything else is random, and all rooms are of a good standard anyway.

You might be surprised at just how many arts students do achieve firsts.

Also, I think most colleges use some sort of system like this is any case - it's not unique to Christ Church.

I've never heard of any of those drinking clubs that you've named, despite being at ChCh for three years. And again, many colleges have 'drinking clubs'.

It's quite common in Cambridge, but I don't know of any other Oxford colleges that do it.

There's a load of stuff here about why Christ Church is good though: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Oxford_College_Pros_and_Cons#Christ_Church (and more info here: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Christ_Church,_Oxford)

It's quite common in Cambridge, but I don't know of any other Oxford colleges that do it.

There's a load of stuff here about why Christ Church is good though: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Oxford_College_Pros_and_Cons#Christ_Church (and more info here: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Christ_Church,_Oxford)

Which is totally unfair. The quality of the room you live in shouldn't depend on how well you did in a few 3 hour exams. What a great way to support people who didn't do as well: segregate them in the worst rooms and make it blatently obvious to an entire College who didn't do well in exams. Is this 1814 or 2014?

Again, totally unfair. So people who can win a popularity contest get a better room? It seems if you're not the most popular and not getting a first then the room ballot isn't much fun at Christ Church!

I suspect that's a matter of opinion. I had people in my second year classes from Christ Church who were not happy with their rooms, so obviously it's not an unanimous view.

Having done law I can tell you it's about 16-20% (varies on year) in that subject. Similarish in things like history or english (albeit a bit higher) vs figures well over 40% in many of the sciences or maths. The difference there is significant. Even when you look into each degree class, trying to get over 73 in law is effectively impossible whilst getting 80 in maths is perfectly possible. So Mr/Ms good maths person has an inherent advantage over Mr /Ms good lawyer/arts student.

No, they really don't. I'm amazed you even think that- do you actually go to Oxford?!

Well I most certainly have! I'm amazed that you managed to miss that, but perhaps you're just in the wrong social circles to even be aware of it.

Edit: Having read the entries on that link for the Colleges I went to, they are pretty woeful and seemingly out of date. Pembroke apparently loves fining people yet I haven't once heard of someone being fined or been threatened with it myself despite being in situations where at my previous College I probably would have been. The Brasenose entry is... highly selective.

If I edit them to make them a bit more balanced (i.e. actually include some real negatives backed by facts and figures...) will it be left alone or will the mods decide to stamp all over it because it won't be supporting their agenda?

Have you ever seen the rooms in Christ Church? They're really not bad, and all priced equally. And by no means would you be able to tell what grades people got by the rooms they are in. I'm not suggesting that the system used is the best, but there doesn't seem to be very strong opinions raised about it. There's more uproar that musicians have a separate ballot.

Have you ever seen the rooms in Christ Church?

They're really not bad, and all priced equally.

And by no means would you be able to tell what grades people got by the rooms they are in.

I'm not suggesting that the system used is the best, but there doesn't seem to be very strong opinions raised about it. There's more uproar that musicians have a separate ballot.

And what is wrong with giving those students who done well a little perk?

How different is it to allowing those students who can afford more to get a better quality room? And to be clear, no I'm not a scholar, so I haven't benefitted from the system.

I agree. Which is why it is being reviewed. Again, have you seen the rooms in Christ Church? I haven't seen all other college rooms, so couldn't make a proper judgement on the room ballots in other colleges.

They most likely had rooms in the Liddell Building, approx 10/15 minutes away on the other side of Magdalen Bridge. Distance is the only real complaint, but students do benefit from having kitchens and being able to have 'flats'. Rooms here are the last chosen, but some do elect to live there. It's not like ChCh is the only college to have an annexe.

True, but then one could also claim that awarding scholarships is inherently unfair and should be abolished.

Oh, I forgot. I'm a social hermit that never leaves my room. Maybe the fact that these so called 'drinking societies' haven't bothered me means that they shouldn't play too big a part in college choice.

I could give you a long list of people being fined at Pembroke - I'm not saying it's necessarily more than at other colleges, but they are definitely happy to fine. Including fining someone they've already sent down for a term - as if that wasn't punishment enough.

Absolute nonsense. Upper class? Exeter? Formal atmosphere? Large College? Have you even been to Exeter?

I never said that it was large, but simply that it doesn't have as cosy an atmosphere as places like Regent's Park. Please bear in mind that this is all subjective; what I deem to be formal and upper class may differ from your own perceptions garnered on any given day. I would also appreciate it if in future you didn't refer to my opinions as 'absolute nonsense' - they are as valid as yours.

I never said that it was large, but simply that it doesn't have as cosy an atmosphere as places like Regent's Park. Please bear in mind that this is all subjective; what I deem to be formal and upper class may differ from your own perceptions garnered on any given day. I would also appreciate it if in future you didn't refer to my opinions as 'absolute nonsense' - they are as valid as yours.

I never said that it was large, but simply that it doesn't have as cosy an atmosphere as places like Regent's Park.

Please bear in mind that this is all subjective; what I deem to be formal and upper class may differ from your own perceptions garnered on any given day.

I would also appreciate it if in future you didn't refer to my opinions as 'absolute nonsense' - they are as valid as yours.

blah blah

What happened to being like a nun?

Yes

I never claimed they were bad. Don't put words in my mouth. I don't see why someone with a worse room ought to pay to subsidise the person with the nice room. You get hit twice really don't you- don't get a first so get a worse room, then have to pay to subsidise your peers.

Oh come on, you know as well as I do that isn't true.

I find the lack of opposition to it highly disturbing and telling really. If they'd tried that at either of my Colleges, there would have been a riot.

It isn't an even playing field? Why should a maths student have an inherent, build in advantage to a lawyer or a historian? A lawyer would never be able to come top of the ballot given the marking structure.

I also think that given grade achievement can be linked to pastoral issues, using grades as a method for room allocation is somewhat unsympathetic to those with issues.

Quite different, but it's a separate issue really.

It was being "reviewed" the year I started at Oxford (2009!)

I haven't seen every room ever built no, but I have more of a knowledge of it than most given I was a JCR admissions/outreach rep for a year and also did some work with OUSU regarding accommodation provision. I'm not saying Christ Church has bad rooms, I don't know why you seem obsessed that I am...

I never said anything about annexes.

Well no, because most Colleges take into account the statistical variations in how easy it is to achieve x grade in y subject. I got a scholarship after mods with a mark which some of the maths guys didn't even get an exhibition for.

You said it, not me

Plus in seriousness I would say being a young woman in a kind of atmosphere where such groups exist is much worse than being a guy. You try being treated as a sex object by some stuck up private school ***** (note: nothing against private school kids, it's just a very small minority) who bombard you with invitations to their events where they just want to get you paralytically drunk and sleep with you. The level of the problem varies between Colleges, but personally I don't think self reported "oh it hasn't bothered me" by men can be used as a justification for inherently misogynistic groups not being a problem

Fair. All I'm trying to get across is that these 'worse' rooms and these 'nice' rooms are not all that different.


Only scholars/exhibitioners and a few JCR committee members (I believe the Treasurer, Vice President and Secretary) receive priority. The vast majority of the college don't fit this criteria. I don't know when the system was introduced, but in my personal opinion it's not that big a deal. If an applicant does happen to feel really strongly about it, then maybe ChCh isn't right for them.

Perhaps, but if inequality in accommodation is a big irk for someone, they should also be aware that some colleges use grading systems.

I never knew this, and I don't know if any change did or didn't happen. I agree that JCR committee positions are typically appointed with a great popularity influence, but I suppose the idea is that they may deserve a boost in the ballot for the work they do for the JCR. Each can make their own mind as to whether they think that is acceptable or not.

Which in the case of the room ballot would have given priority. If these statistical variations are considered when awarding scholarships, then the effect it has on inequality between arts and sciences and the room ballot is reduced. Not abolished, but reduced at least.

I agree, and I wouldn't dream on saying that I know what it would feel like. But I feel (perhaps wrongly) that this is an issue that applies to universities across the UK and all of Oxford too.

Not just ChCh, which some may have concluded by pointing out potential 'drinking societies' without giving a word of mention how it also applies to the university at large.

I don't want to get into an argument. Inequalities might exist, but I would imagine (wrongly perhaps) that these might exist in a lot of colleges in one way or another. I don't personally see scholars/exhibitioners getting room ballot priority as that large an issue - that's just my opinion. With both sides of the story, an applicant can make their own mind up.

Sometimes I just feel that there are a select few colleges in Oxford that people will more happily voice concern about, potentially misguiding applicants.

Personally I've always felt the CV points were thanks enough.

I can only speak for Oxford, but it's certainly present to an extent everywhere. Some Colleges are much worse for it than others.
It wasn't my intention to portray it as solely a Christ Church issue; I will be more explicit in future on that point.

I'm just as blunt about other Colleges I promise you My post history will reveal some rather critical (as well as some praise too!) about my own Colleges, so it's not a ChCh vendetta I'm on I assure you.

Thank you for your thoughts on all of this, has been interesting!

Hopefully your use of 'interesting' has some good qualities with no sarcasm intended!

I want to study EP and have narrowed my list down to New, Brasenose, Christchurch and Magdalen. I'm looking for a large college with good accommodation and food. Which ones of my shortlist has the best of those two criteria? Are any of these 'party' colleges (I've heard Brasenose is)? Also, out of interest, do any have a particularly 'private school' feel?

The tutor I spoke to on an open day from Magdalen was the loveliest person ever so that may be the dealbreaker here.. but I am also slightly tempted by New's larger intake of undergraduates to the course (I know I shouldn't play the statistics game!).


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and allocates rooms based on your exam results in 2nd and 3rd years which actually discriminates against people doing subjects like law/history/classics where people typically get less firsts and are more likely to get 2.2's in mods vs their scientific/mathematical peers.

I went to Brasenose, and I certainly am not a party animal at all. That said, I think a pretty good contingent goes to the clubs, so you won't be in want of company if you do decide to go.

If you're looking for a large college, I wouldn't recommend Brasenose - it's relatively small. I also wouldn't say that we have great food (I personally think it's fine and Formals are relatively cheap, but I also have a relatively high tolerance for bad food, so take it with a pinch of salt), but I would say we have some of the best locations in terms of undergrad accommodation. I didn't think Brasenose had that much of a "private school" vibe, but that's just me.

Personally, based on your criteria, I would actually recommend Worcester: huge grounds, nice food (not so sure about normal hall food, but I love Worcester formals ), and lots of en-suites!

Also, you're right that you shouldn't play a stats game, but having more people in your year might be a legitimate factor in any case. I went to a college with a large intake for my subject, and I quite liked the resulting camaraderie.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the case that for Arts subjects generally, you're very likely to get a 2i, but less likely to get a First or a 2ii (or below) as compared to Science subjects? At least that's how I understood it Or I might just be confused.

I'm not sure how it works for other colleges, but at Brasenose, it only really matters if you get a Distinction (or get promoted to Exhibitioner by other means). No one gets penalized accommodation-wise for getting a 2ii equivalent (or worse). Or rewarded extra for getting a high average/ university prizes. You're right in that statistically, getting a First/ Distinction is more difficult in Arts subjects (and sad to say, Law is somewhere at the bottom in terms of First/ Distinction rates, although the faculty's supposedly making a concerted effort to mark more generously).

Personally, I really like the system used by Magdalen: Random ballot for 2nd year, and then reversed in 3rd year. I think that's pretty fair to everyone

Completely off-topic, but can I PM you regarding the BCL?