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Chemistry A2: Urgent Help Needed!

I am despirately trying to understand how rate equations work and time is running out as i've got my exam on thursday (2849)

Here is an example of a rate equation question:

H+ (is ontop of arrow)
CH3COCH3(aq) + I2 (aq) -----> CH3COCH2I (aq)+ H+ (aq) + I2 (aq)

Find the order of the reaction in respect to all the reactants, and find the overall order of reaction.

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Whats the question, or is that just it?
Reply 2
For that equation:

The reaction is:

First order with respect to CH3COCH3
First order with respect to H+
and
Zero order with respect to I2

The overall order of the reaction is 2.

What else do you want to know about it?

If something is zero order with respect to that reactant, that means that the rate of reaction will not change if you change the concentrations of that reactant. In the rate eqaution you would not include the Iodine.

In all honesty you will never get just that in an exam. You will get an eqaution and then a graph, or a table and you will be asked what the order of the reaction is to the reactants, or to construct the rate eqaution or to draw a graph of conc/time of rate/conc.
Reply 3
was there a snazzy table of results from changing the concentration to accompany that equation?
How do you work that out without the results table?
Reply 5
Thats all i got, my problem is how do i spot which is first order, second order and zero order. It makes absolutely no sense.
I think its

Zero Order, No change in rate
1st Order, Rate doubles as conc doubles
2nd Order, Rate quadrupiles as conc. doubles

Please correct me if needed on this though.

I need to revise for a module containing this today....
you need experimental values....
Reply 8
mathslover786
you need experimental values....


Thats all it said in my revision book, then just goes on saying this is first order this is second order etc. Still no clue what it means :frown:
Reply 9
To work out the order of a reaction you need to have data that shows changes in concentration of each of the reactants and how they affect the rates of reaction.

I only know the order to that reaction because I have it written down in my notes as an example.

http://www.ocr.org.uk/Data/publications/past_papers_2007_january/A_GCE_Chemistry_Salters_2849_01_January_2007_Question_Paper.pdf

Take for example that paper. Question 5 part C. That's the type of question you will get in an exam if they ask you to work out the order of a reaction. Have a look at it and see if you can do it based on what we've said. If you can't, then let us know where the problem lies and we'll all help. :smile:

Loz17
I think its

Zero Order, No change in rate
1st Order, Rate doubles as conc doubles
2nd Order, Rate quadrupiles as conc. doubles

Please correct me if needed on this though.

I need to revise for a module containing this today....


Yeah that's correct.
Reply 10
Olibert
To work out the order of a reaction you need to have data that shows changes in concentration of each of the reactants and how they affect the rates of reaction.

I only know the order to that reaction because I have it written down in my notes as an example.

http://www.ocr.org.uk/Data/publications/past_papers_2007_january/A_GCE_Chemistry_Salters_2849_01_January_2007_Question_Paper.pdf

Take for example that paper. Question 5 part C. That's the type of question you will get in an exam if they ask you to work out the order of a reaction. Have a look at it and see if you can do it based on what we've said. If you can't, then let us know where the problem lies and we'll all help. :smile:



Yeah that's correct.


I could only understand the 1st experiment, but then the concentrations keep on changing in the 2nd,3rd and 4th experiments that it gets me lost.
Reply 11
letmepassplz
I could only understand the 1st experiment, but then the concentrations keep on changing in the 2nd,3rd and 4th experiments that it gets me lost.


For that question you need to consider each one of the reactants in turn.

Start with [NO]

Going from experiment 2 - 3, the concentration of NO doubles. Then you look at the rate of reaction in the far column. The rate has quadrupled.

As Loz said previously if the concentration doubles and the rate quadruples, the order with respect to that reactant is 2nd order. Thus you can say that for NO it is 2.

Now looking at [CO]

Between the experiments 1 and 2 the concentration of CO doubles (all the other reactants stay the same) but the rate of reaction does not change. If it doesn't change, then the order with respect to CO is zero (As Loz said)

Finally looking at [O2]

Between experiments 3 and 4 they have doubled the concentration of O2. But if you look at the rate of reaction, nothing changes. Thus you can say that the order with respect to O2 is zero also.

Notice that they only change one concentration at a time, leaving everything else the same.
Loz17
I think its

Zero Order, No change in rate
1st Order, Rate doubles as conc doubles
2nd Order, Rate quadrupiles as conc. doubles

Please correct me if needed on this though.

I need to revise for a module containing this today....


That is right, I'm just confused about how that other person worked out which one is which without the reaction data - I guess we don't need to know the method they used then?
Reply 13
Olibert
For that question you need to consider each one of the reactants in turn.

Start with [NO]

Going from experiment 2 - 3, the concentration of NO doubles. Then you look at the rate of reaction in the far column. The rate has quadrupled.

As Loz said previously if the concentration doubles and the rate quadruples, the order with respect to that reactant is 2nd order. Thus you can say that for NO it is 2.

Now looking at [CO]

Between the experiments 1 and 2 the concentration of CO doubles (all the other reactants stay the same) but the rate of reaction does not change. If it doesn't change, then the order with respect to CO is zero (As Loz said)

Finally looking at [O2]

Between experiments 3 and 4 they have doubled the concentration of O2. But if you look at the rate of reaction, nothing changes. Thus you can say that the order with respect to O2 is zero also.

Notice that they only change one concentration at a time, leaving everything else the same.


Thank you very much :smile:

Now all i need help on is the graph questions, and writing the rate equation for the reaction. Care to help?
letmepassplz
Thank you very much :smile:

Now all i need help on is the graph questions, and writing the rate equation for the reaction. Care to help?


I'll find some graph examples, if you can find a question :smile:

Also rate equations, you get a mark from saying Rate = k :p:
Reply 15
From the calculations you know that the order with respect to NO is 2, and 0 for the other reactants. This means that you only need to include NO in the eqaution.

The general rate equation for a reaction: A + B = Products

is

Rate = k x [A]^m x ^n

Where m and n are the orders with respect to those reactants.

As previously said, two of the reactants have 0 order so don't get included in the equation. [NO] has an order of 2.

Have a go at writing the equation now that you know how they are constructed.

As for the graph. Since it comes before the part where you work out the order of the reaction, just draw a suitable curve. The gradient of the curve is the rate of reaction. The intitial rate of reaction will be the gradient of the curve at time = 0. For this particular question, draw a tangent to the curve at t = 0 and then explain that you need to measure the gradient of that tangent to get the intitial rate of reaction.
Right, I'm drawing graphs in paint atm. I'll edit this post as I go....

I apologise about the 2nd order graph, paint it limiting.

Thats what the NO graph would look like

I believe Oilbert has sorted all the theoretical side to it :smile:
Reply 18
Olibert
From the calculations you know that the order with respect to NO is 2, and 0 for the other reactants. This means that you only need to include NO in the eqaution.

The general rate equation for a reaction: A + B = Products

is

Rate = k x [A]^m x ^n

Where m and n are the orders with respect to those reactants.

As previously said, two of the reactants have 0 order so don't get included in the equation. [NO] has an order of 2.

Have a go at writing the equation now that you know how they are constructed.

As for the graph. Since it comes before the part where you work out the order of the reaction, just draw a suitable curve. The gradient of the curve is the rate of reaction. The intitial rate of reaction will be the gradient of the curve at time = 0. For this particular question, draw a tangent to the curve at t = 0 and then explain that you need to measure the gradient of that tangent to get the intitial rate of reaction.


Would it be... Rate = k[NO]^2

Could you draw how the graph would look like?
Reply 19
you cannot work out the rate from the stoichemistry

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