Muslim students at Queen Mary calling for a ‘right to pray’
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So, QMUL has approximately 3300 Muslim students. Let's just say for the sake of argument that they're all members of the iSoc and wish to pray on a Friday.
Now, I used to be a part of a society that the university did not have the facilities for. So, we had to pay for the upkeep of our own premises and equipment through membership dues. These were £70 per year, and in practice there were many extras that had to bought throughout the year, so it worked out much higher than that.
Charge everyone an appropriate sum (£50, say), which would give £165,000 per year. Put that money towards renting out the sports hall once a week at Mile End Leisure Centre (0.3 miles away) and job's a good'un.
I do wonder what has sparked this change by QMUL. Perhaps in previous years they've needed the space for other things on a Friday afternoon, and so told the iSoc that they'll have to go elsewhere, found that a vocal minority / the committee have squawked about it and decided that it isn't worth the hassle and so not given them the space for this year.
Now, I used to be a part of a society that the university did not have the facilities for. So, we had to pay for the upkeep of our own premises and equipment through membership dues. These were £70 per year, and in practice there were many extras that had to bought throughout the year, so it worked out much higher than that.
Charge everyone an appropriate sum (£50, say), which would give £165,000 per year. Put that money towards renting out the sports hall once a week at Mile End Leisure Centre (0.3 miles away) and job's a good'un.
I do wonder what has sparked this change by QMUL. Perhaps in previous years they've needed the space for other things on a Friday afternoon, and so told the iSoc that they'll have to go elsewhere, found that a vocal minority / the committee have squawked about it and decided that it isn't worth the hassle and so not given them the space for this year.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by The Angry Stoic
I require a 100m area to spread instant tagliatelle across in order to please His noodlieness. Will the university provide?
Laughed at this way more than I probably should have
Think it was the 'instant tagliatelle' part haha!
If a University doesn't cater for your needs, don't go there.
Simple.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by shouldbestudying
Campaigning for this particular cause is preposterous. From their Facebook page I can see just how overly emotionally Queen Mary Isoc have become over the situation. The Muslim students need to calm down and focus on their studying rather than painting banners with the words ‘right to pray’. Having the freedom to practice your religion is a right, and Muslim students at QM clearly still have this right. They have the freedom to go to the local mosque if they want to or pray anywhere on campus.
Surely gyms, accommodation and shops on campus contribute to the student’s wellbeing but I seriously doubt praying plays a role in this or in improving the student’s educational experience.
Ok, you’re asking to use a large hall and drama theatre EVERY hour, on EVERY Friday, FOREVER.Surely such spacious rooms could be required for other uses one Friday evening. Muslims would have a panic attack if one week they are told they can’t hold their prayers there and perhaps this is why the university has given you an outright ‘no’ to avoid the hassle.
It’s NOT a necessary interference in the same way a disability is and therefore access to a prayer room onsite is NOT a NEED like how disabled facilities are a NEED. You have the CHOICE to not go to the mosque so your education isn’t adversely affected.
Just because mosques can’t cater for their people, it doesn’t mean Muslims should turn to other non-religious public institutions to accommodate for them. Focus your campaign on obtaining planning permission for mosques. Mosques all over the UK complain of insufficient space (interestingly I don't hear any temples, or gurdwaras doing this), so what other public institutions will have to provide for prayer space in the future?
Students all over the UK are paying £9000, not just the Muslims at Queen Mary. It’s primarily spent on EDUCATION; you’re paying for a course. How inconvenient would it be if using the pretext of ‘I’m paying £9000’ students all over the UK began asking for non-educational facilities?
Surely gyms, accommodation and shops on campus contribute to the student’s wellbeing but I seriously doubt praying plays a role in this or in improving the student’s educational experience.
Ok, you’re asking to use a large hall and drama theatre EVERY hour, on EVERY Friday, FOREVER.Surely such spacious rooms could be required for other uses one Friday evening. Muslims would have a panic attack if one week they are told they can’t hold their prayers there and perhaps this is why the university has given you an outright ‘no’ to avoid the hassle.
It’s NOT a necessary interference in the same way a disability is and therefore access to a prayer room onsite is NOT a NEED like how disabled facilities are a NEED. You have the CHOICE to not go to the mosque so your education isn’t adversely affected.
Just because mosques can’t cater for their people, it doesn’t mean Muslims should turn to other non-religious public institutions to accommodate for them. Focus your campaign on obtaining planning permission for mosques. Mosques all over the UK complain of insufficient space (interestingly I don't hear any temples, or gurdwaras doing this), so what other public institutions will have to provide for prayer space in the future?
Students all over the UK are paying £9000, not just the Muslims at Queen Mary. It’s primarily spent on EDUCATION; you’re paying for a course. How inconvenient would it be if using the pretext of ‘I’m paying £9000’ students all over the UK began asking for non-educational facilities?
Another basher that's most likely not read the full details, welcome aboard.
My su has a music room that probably caters to 2% of the student population. I find it useless and something a pain. Should the music room not exist? They could find a better use for it. After all they can **** off somewhere else to play right.
The points been made on here just keep getting sillier.
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(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Origami Bullets
So, QMUL has approximately 3300 Muslim students. Let's just say for the sake of argument that they're all members of the iSoc and wish to pray on a Friday.
Now, I used to be a part of a society that the university did not have the facilities for. So, we had to pay for the upkeep of our own premises and equipment through membership dues. These were £70 per year, and in practice there were many extras that had to bought throughout the year, so it worked out much higher than that.
Charge everyone an appropriate sum (£50, say) and put that money towards renting out the sports hall once a week at Mile End Leisure Centre (0.3 miles away) and job's a good'un.
I do wonder what has sparked this change by QMUL. Perhaps in previous years they've needed the space for other things on a Friday afternoon, and so told the iSoc that they'll have to go elsewhere, found that a vocal minority / the committee have squawked about it and decided that it isn't worth the hassle and so not given them the space for this year
Now, I used to be a part of a society that the university did not have the facilities for. So, we had to pay for the upkeep of our own premises and equipment through membership dues. These were £70 per year, and in practice there were many extras that had to bought throughout the year, so it worked out much higher than that.
Charge everyone an appropriate sum (£50, say) and put that money towards renting out the sports hall once a week at Mile End Leisure Centre (0.3 miles away) and job's a good'un.
I do wonder what has sparked this change by QMUL. Perhaps in previous years they've needed the space for other things on a Friday afternoon, and so told the iSoc that they'll have to go elsewhere, found that a vocal minority / the committee have squawked about it and decided that it isn't worth the hassle and so not given them the space for this year
This is exactly it given that the spot checks have indicated that the room are not been used. That's from my understanding what's starting this.
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Original post by 419
This is exactly it given that the spot checks have indicated that the room are not been used. That's from my understanding what's starting this.
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Well if it is related to squawking in previous years, then any sympathy that I did once have has evaporated. You can't expect to be obnoxious and get everything you want.
People's intolerance on here really surprises me! Why does it bother you so much that Muslims need a place to pray on campus? You do realise we each pay thousands of pounds to the university every year and international students (of which there are a great number in all ISOCs) pay even more! So why can't the university provide facilities where possible? Like any student union society, the ISOC is using their right to campaign for something that they feel is necessary: stop acting like they've resorted to hooliganism or something or that it affects you in any way.
Original post by Origami Bullets
Well if it is related to squawking in previous years, then any sympathy that I did once have has evaporated. You can't expect to be obnoxious and get everything you want.
How have they been obnoxious? (Not been rude here just wanting to know the full picture)
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Original post by Lady Comstock
Have they stayed outside the room for the whole hour every Friday and monitored its use?
I'd imagine so. Ps the us has verified the spot check and isn't been solely made by the isoc FYI.
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Original post by Straight up G
419 is actually annihilating everyone in this thread.
Well it's really easy. Pro of debating football. Unlike football, there really isn't room for been subjective here.
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Original post by 419
How have they been obnoxious? (Not been rude here just wanting to know the full picture)
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IF a vocal minority had squawked as a result of not being able to have the space every week, to the point that the uni had decided that it wasn't worth the fuss, then I would think that the iSoc had been obnoxious.
I'm completely unconnected to QMUL and its iSoc, but I think there's a lot more to this story than meets the eye, personally.
Original post by 419
Since the room isn't in use at the time what's the issue.
Again, are you just spouting spiel without knowing the full detail. Because, they've been using said room in previous years without a problem.
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Again, are you just spouting spiel without knowing the full detail. Because, they've been using said room in previous years without a problem.
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A point that's been made and is probably valid:
The rooms mentioned are usually used for events and stuff (and exams throughout exam time), so the university can't guarantee them the space EVERY week, so the Isoc would have to accept changing their plans if and when other things were going on. I guess they could book them out on a week-by-week basis but I'm still not sure that the uni is OBLIGED to concede to booking requests.
Original post by shouldbestudying
Campaigning for this particular cause is preposterous. From their Facebook page I can see just how overly emotionally Queen Mary Isoc have become over the situation. The Muslim students need to calm down and focus on their studying rather than painting banners with the words ‘right to pray’. Having the freedom to practice your religion is a right, and Muslim students at QM clearly still have this right. They have the freedom to go to the local mosque if they want to or pray anywhere on campus.
Surely gyms, accommodation and shops on campus contribute to the student’s wellbeing but I seriously doubt praying plays a role in this or in improving the student’s educational experience.
Ok, you’re asking to use a large hall and drama theatre EVERY hour, on EVERY Friday, FOREVER.Surely such spacious rooms could be required for other uses one Friday evening. Muslims would have a panic attack if one week they are told they can’t hold their prayers there and perhaps this is why the university has given you an outright ‘no’ to avoid the hassle.
I just can't believe you said that....................of course praying contributes to a students well being, especially there mental health and can even improve a students experience, its there chance for a break from the stress of work, etc....praying brings a lot of inner peace for many students, not just Muslims.
Its "and" its a large hall or the drama theatre..........friday evening? actually as early as 12pm aka midday..........so one holds such events during the day in the large hall........especially the drama theatre which I have never seen being used this academic year so far.
And actually these halls were used before, and there have been the occassional week where we couldn't and they dealt with that.
The issue is that theres a blanket ban from its use despite them not being used
It’s NOT a necessary interference in the same way a disability is and therefore access to a prayer room onsite is NOT a NEED like how disabled facilities are a NEED. You have the CHOICE to not go to the mosque so your education isn’t adversely affected.
For many Muslims yes it is necessary to go and pray, many Muslims simply just leave in the middle of a lecture, seminar, etc just to go pray.
And again they are paying students, and the uni has a task towards well being
Just because mosques can’t cater for their people, it doesn’t mean Muslims should turn to other non-religious public institutions to accommodate for them. Focus your campaign on obtaining planning permission for mosques. Mosques all over the UK complain of insufficient space (interestingly I don't hear any temples, or gurdwaras doing this), so what other public institutions will have to provide for prayer space in the future?
Did I say that? No I need to...........your simply pandering, from "there are several nearby mosques they could use", now to saying the uni has no reason to accommodate them, etc
Or completely going off-topic....................the institution has a duty to their paying students, looking after well being, etc so they have a duty to that.
As do many large private companies which have started to have dedicated prayer room........a happy worker is a productive worker, same with uni's.
Students all over the UK are paying £9000, not just the Muslims at Queen Mary. It’s primarily spent on EDUCATION; you’re paying for a course. How inconvenient would it be if using the pretext of ‘I’m paying £9000’ students all over the UK began asking for non-educational facilities?
Surely gyms, accommodation and shops on campus contribute to the student’s wellbeing but I seriously doubt praying plays a role in this or in improving the student’s educational experience.
Ok, you’re asking to use a large hall and drama theatre EVERY hour, on EVERY Friday, FOREVER.Surely such spacious rooms could be required for other uses one Friday evening. Muslims would have a panic attack if one week they are told they can’t hold their prayers there and perhaps this is why the university has given you an outright ‘no’ to avoid the hassle.
I just can't believe you said that....................of course praying contributes to a students well being, especially there mental health and can even improve a students experience, its there chance for a break from the stress of work, etc....praying brings a lot of inner peace for many students, not just Muslims.
Its "and" its a large hall or the drama theatre..........friday evening? actually as early as 12pm aka midday..........so one holds such events during the day in the large hall........especially the drama theatre which I have never seen being used this academic year so far.
And actually these halls were used before, and there have been the occassional week where we couldn't and they dealt with that.
The issue is that theres a blanket ban from its use despite them not being used
It’s NOT a necessary interference in the same way a disability is and therefore access to a prayer room onsite is NOT a NEED like how disabled facilities are a NEED. You have the CHOICE to not go to the mosque so your education isn’t adversely affected.
For many Muslims yes it is necessary to go and pray, many Muslims simply just leave in the middle of a lecture, seminar, etc just to go pray.
And again they are paying students, and the uni has a task towards well being
Just because mosques can’t cater for their people, it doesn’t mean Muslims should turn to other non-religious public institutions to accommodate for them. Focus your campaign on obtaining planning permission for mosques. Mosques all over the UK complain of insufficient space (interestingly I don't hear any temples, or gurdwaras doing this), so what other public institutions will have to provide for prayer space in the future?
Did I say that? No I need to...........your simply pandering, from "there are several nearby mosques they could use", now to saying the uni has no reason to accommodate them, etc
Or completely going off-topic....................the institution has a duty to their paying students, looking after well being, etc so they have a duty to that.
As do many large private companies which have started to have dedicated prayer room........a happy worker is a productive worker, same with uni's.
Students all over the UK are paying £9000, not just the Muslims at Queen Mary. It’s primarily spent on EDUCATION; you’re paying for a course. How inconvenient would it be if using the pretext of ‘I’m paying £9000’ students all over the UK began asking for non-educational facilities?
They already do..................how else do they pay for the uni bar, the gym facilities, the sport facilities, etc or other non-educational things which go towards providing for students
Original post by 419
Another basher that's most likely not read the full details, welcome aboard.
My su has a music room that probably caters to 2% of the student population. I find it useless and something a pain. Should the music room not exist? They could find a better use for it. After all they can **** off somewhere else to play right.
The points been made on here just keep getting sillier.
Posted from TSR Mobile
My su has a music room that probably caters to 2% of the student population. I find it useless and something a pain. Should the music room not exist? They could find a better use for it. After all they can **** off somewhere else to play right.
The points been made on here just keep getting sillier.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Actually some of my closest friends are Muslims at Queen Mary campaigning for this so I think I’m pretty well informed about this.
I’m not just a basher; I’ve seen the situation from the inside. The reason why everyone’s always bashing Muslims on TSR is because most of them are overly sensitive. My bashing is justified. I remember when I used to be a Muslim; I used to get offended so easily. Now I realise how PATHETIC it was.
Well firstly a music room is necessary for Music undergraduates. Secondly having a room dedicated to playing instruments enhances the students’ university experience as they’re developing their abilities and talents. I just don’t see how the same can be said about praying.
Original post by Arturo Bandini
A point that's been made and is probably valid:
The rooms mentioned are usually used for events and stuff (and exams throughout exam time), so the university can't guarantee them the space EVERY week, so the Isoc would have to accept changing their plans if and when other things were going on. I guess they could book them out on a week-by-week basis but I'm still not sure that the uni is OBLIGED to concede to booking requests.
The rooms mentioned are usually used for events and stuff (and exams throughout exam time), so the university can't guarantee them the space EVERY week, so the Isoc would have to accept changing their plans if and when other things were going on. I guess they could book them out on a week-by-week basis but I'm still not sure that the uni is OBLIGED to concede to booking requests.
That's how the system was before they just did a blanket block on the room booking
Original post by kka25
It must be huge enough for the meatballs too! 
You're ok with that?
You're ok with that?
Yes. Why wouldn't I be. People dissapear to smoke, take the kids to the Doctors.
A lot of people seem to think that the work place is a draconian working environment. Pick the right worfkforce with the right attitude and let them know what the boundaries are and you can be quite flexible.
Original post by techno-thriller
All the Muslims needs must be catered for whatever the situation.
Yap, but its not a religious institution. Its a educational institution.
They do have rooms just like other societies. But if they want a whole big theatre, it might be a problem as there are LESSONS going on at times so we can't just give it to one society n not the other. There are a lot of members in for example the christian union and as they cant accommodate all of them at once, they have split into smaller groups so they can use the rooms at different times/ days. Its not that hard is it? Its all about how you organize it.
I dont see why they need to protest and demand for a place. Its not a right.
As said by other people, there are so many mosque and muslim institution in Mile end.
Original post by Arturo Bandini
A point that's been made and is probably valid:
The rooms mentioned are usually used for events and stuff (and exams throughout exam time), so the university can't guarantee them the space EVERY week, so the Isoc would have to accept changing their plans if and when other things were going on. I guess they could book them out on a week-by-week basis but I'm still not sure that the uni is OBLIGED to concede to booking requests.
The rooms mentioned are usually used for events and stuff (and exams throughout exam time), so the university can't guarantee them the space EVERY week, so the Isoc would have to accept changing their plans if and when other things were going on. I guess they could book them out on a week-by-week basis but I'm still not sure that the uni is OBLIGED to concede to booking requests.
well said!
Isn't there a mosque nearby the campus? If there isn't, then the university should provide a bigger space for them to pray in. Anyway, I think it's still respectable for the university to allow them to have Friday prayers in the first place, there are many institutions that don't allow it otherwise.
The USA is lucky that its forefathers ensured the complete separation of state and religion. I advocate the same thing in the UK, in which case there would be no question of a state-funded institution pandering to religious demands. In any case, the nearest mosque is 500m away according to maps.google, which is not a great distance, IMO.
Original post by Iqbal007
Also students are essentially paying customers, if you had to pay £9,000 i'd expect a lot.......and then lets not forget the fact QM has the largest Muslim population of students of any university, a large chunk of money comes from their tuition fees.
Also students are essentially paying customers, if you had to pay £9,000 i'd expect a lot.......and then lets not forget the fact QM has the largest Muslim population of students of any university, a large chunk of money comes from their tuition fees.
Wow
Are you for real? That's where the problem lie, people just 'expect a lot'. For your information, the money you are paying is to cater for your educational needs. You don't own the university.'a large chunk of money comes from their tuition fees' And? What do you want a medal? Sorry, I am not trying to be rude and I respect Muslim a lot as I have muslim friends but what I dont agree with are the people who are saying things like this depite their religion. You cant demand anything from anyone, would you go and demand the mosque to change their timings. If they said no, would you protest. If so why dont you guys go to the mosque and ask them if facilities can be provided to cater for your religious needs.
Because if one society demands a bigger room and sooner or later wouldnt other societies demand for a Bigger spaCe too. I mean if the university lets one society then surely it will be partiality to say no to another. Then in about few years time, education will be the secondary aspect of QM.
I'd say QM knows what its doing!
(edited 10 years ago)
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