should university be free but harder to get into?

I think we have the nub of it. Provided they don't call them universities, so far as you are concerned "out of sight, out of mind".

Well of course, governments which have to fund these things can't operate like that.

Well, that's slightly better than I thought, but worse than you did. I assume the Co-Op have the same terms?


Ten, you have wounded me.

I am more than happy to pay for both - I believe in learning for its own sake

It is the idea that people feel they can dictate that another's choice isa joke or pointless - when they do this they generally choose something made up or something that I can see has a use

I love English Lit

xx

I hate that going to university has become the norm. It takes away the value for those who have actually worked hard to get there


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I don't really understand why you hate it though, many jobs nowadays requires a degree.

Higher education isn't an automatic ticket to an escape from these types of careers. People need to recognise that. If you aren't going to put the effort in - and let's be honest, people on CCC and below aren't putting enough in - you might just end up stacking shelves regardless of whether you have gone to a 'university' or not. This costs the tax payer money, as those earning under £21k don't have to pay a thing back - the odds are they won't pay much of their loan (including interest) back at all - all to the cost of the taxpayer.

The reasons why one doesn't put the effort in can be wide and varying, for some people, education is dull and boring, they want real life working experience. That's why I'll return to my earlier point. Entry requirements to university education cannot increase until we have suitable, quality apprenticeship programmes for those that don't enjoy studying full time.

That's rubbish, I put lots of time and effort into all my A Levels and will most likely come out with CCC, I would also argue that I put in more effort than some people getting BBB+. I'm just not as naturally clever, for my maths I went from being targeted and E to getting a C and that was through hard work and putting in hours of extra work a week.

In my home country they do this:

You are put in chance categories of being put into your first university. Say if you get AAB to AAA then you will be put in category 1, meaning you're in. Every time someone gets lower than that their chance goes down e.g. ABB = 80% chance of getting in BBB = 70% etc I'm not completely sure of the figures.

A lot of people get in through this lottery system and there are also other places if you don't get the required grades. The places with lower grades are I suppose similar to old English polytechnics but with a bit of a better reputation :P

The price of the institutions here is around 1500 Euro a year which is about 1200 pounds a year. The downside is a lot of people do drop out, but there are many apprenticeships out there for those who don't want further education.


Sadly the UK seems to put a lot of pressure onto their young people seemingly forcing people to go to Uni - I do not know the state of the job market in the UK but it seems like a shame. There are thousands of good professions that do not require a degree and are very fulfilling. I regret going to university personally.

Which country is that? I think they do something similar in Holland

I think, although it's true that many people go to university just because "that's what you do these days", it'd always be a struggle to get any tightening of entry requirements past the social mobility folks, given the huge impact of socioeconomic factors upon A level grades.

It's difficult to draw a line which couldn't be interpreted as a limit on poor people going into further education.

And even these 'joke courses' you refer to, what makes them joke courses? Lack of historic academic reputation? Most of the 'joke' courses I hear about are far more real world useful than anyone gives them credit for, and far more useful than some of the archaic 'academic' courses.

University should be paid for, I think, and remain easily-accessible.