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LGBT school could open in Manchester
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I don't think isolation is the solution. If you isolate LGBT students from other students, that's only going to reaffirm the idea that LGBT people are different from the rest. As harsh as it sounds, change doesn't happen by burying your head in the sand and hoping things will work out. Bullying is managed so much better than it ever was before in the schooling system, so I think separating LGBT student as if they're an alien species should be avoided at all costs for the sake of progress in societal views about sexuality.
The important thing is for LGBT students to feel they have a support network that they can turn to if and when they are being bullied or abused.
The important thing is for LGBT students to feel they have a support network that they can turn to if and when they are being bullied or abused.
Why do they always get special treatment?
I don't like this idea >.>
It'll just generalise the school as a target for homophobia, the uniform will be a literal label and may even create a divide "us and them"
It's quite sad to hear that LGBT students don't feel safe in usual schools
It'll just generalise the school as a target for homophobia, the uniform will be a literal label and may even create a divide "us and them"
It's quite sad to hear that LGBT students don't feel safe in usual schools
Original post by fluffylittlecat
Why do they always get special treatment?
Um, maybe because we've been literally hunted down and murdered by straight people for millennia?
I can understand the thinking behind this, whether or not it's the right thing to do is a whole different ball game.
It's good that students have a place to go if they're being bullied, but anti-homophobic values is the way forward. Eventually people get to the point where they don't care about sexuality, but bullying is when people pick out different traits in others, then blow them up and tease them for not being the norm.
It's a nice last resort, but bullying really does need to be stamped out of the school system.
It's good that students have a place to go if they're being bullied, but anti-homophobic values is the way forward. Eventually people get to the point where they don't care about sexuality, but bullying is when people pick out different traits in others, then blow them up and tease them for not being the norm.
It's a nice last resort, but bullying really does need to be stamped out of the school system.
Bad idea.
1 - How can you preach that everyone must mix and integrate with all types of people, when you're segregating a group of people for that many years? (school years are very important in a young person's life for many reasons)...
2 - There are some people who may not know if they really are straight or gay (teenage confusion etc) so if they think they are not gay, and then go to a normal school, they will be out of place. And visa versa; if they think they are gay, and then end up realising they are not, but have already decided to go to a gay school, it won't be right for that person.
3 - Homophobic abuse fading out has to be a gradual thing - 100 years, ago you would be absolutely destroyed (through verbal abuse, or even law) if you were gay. Now, homosexuals are very well accepted in society, and most laws do not discriminate anymore. So in another 100 years, maybe homsexuality will be totally accepted...
1 - How can you preach that everyone must mix and integrate with all types of people, when you're segregating a group of people for that many years? (school years are very important in a young person's life for many reasons)...
2 - There are some people who may not know if they really are straight or gay (teenage confusion etc) so if they think they are not gay, and then go to a normal school, they will be out of place. And visa versa; if they think they are gay, and then end up realising they are not, but have already decided to go to a gay school, it won't be right for that person.
3 - Homophobic abuse fading out has to be a gradual thing - 100 years, ago you would be absolutely destroyed (through verbal abuse, or even law) if you were gay. Now, homosexuals are very well accepted in society, and most laws do not discriminate anymore. So in another 100 years, maybe homsexuality will be totally accepted...
As others have said, this won't work. The focus needs to be on better education to eradicate problems like homophobia and bullying. There also needs to be a better mental health system for young people. All GPs should be adequately trained to deal with mental health (they're not) in young people.
I think a better idea would be to provide a place for young lgbt people to go to. When I was younger, there was no place like that. There still isn't! I think it's important that young lgbt people have a place to go to where they can make friends and possibly discuss problems. Being a young lgbt person is scary and I think the support would help.
I think a better idea would be to provide a place for young lgbt people to go to. When I was younger, there was no place like that. There still isn't! I think it's important that young lgbt people have a place to go to where they can make friends and possibly discuss problems. Being a young lgbt person is scary and I think the support would help.
The idea behind this is not to create LGBT schools and so segregation, it's to take a few of those LGBT pupils who are really struggling in the normal school system and put them in a more supportive environment in the short-term, part-time for some of them, so that they do not feel pushed to the point of suicide.
They haven't suggested that segregation is the way forward, they are basically staging an intervention in extreme circumstances. There's a big difference. The majority of LGBT students hopefully wouldn't need this, but clearly some do or we wouldn't have children killing themselves etc. It's essentially a last resort, because mainstream society is not becoming more tolerant quickly enough for some people.
They haven't suggested that segregation is the way forward, they are basically staging an intervention in extreme circumstances. There's a big difference. The majority of LGBT students hopefully wouldn't need this, but clearly some do or we wouldn't have children killing themselves etc. It's essentially a last resort, because mainstream society is not becoming more tolerant quickly enough for some people.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Puddles the Monkey
A school for LGBT pupils is planned for Manchester.
"This is about saving lives,” said Amelia Lee, strategic director for LGBT Youth North West, the youth work charity behind the plans. “Despite the laws that claim to protect gay people from homophobic bullying, the truth is that in schools especially, bullying is still incredibly common and causes young people to feel isolated and alienated, which often leads to truanting and, in the worst-case scenarios, to suicide.”
"The school will be specifically designed for LGBT young people who are struggling in mainstream schools, but will be open to other children, including young carers, young parents and those with mental health problems. “It will be LGBT-inclusive, but not exclusive,” said Lee."
Is segregating pupils the right solution, or should we be focusing attention on eliminating homophobia from mainstream schools?
"This is about saving lives,” said Amelia Lee, strategic director for LGBT Youth North West, the youth work charity behind the plans. “Despite the laws that claim to protect gay people from homophobic bullying, the truth is that in schools especially, bullying is still incredibly common and causes young people to feel isolated and alienated, which often leads to truanting and, in the worst-case scenarios, to suicide.”
"The school will be specifically designed for LGBT young people who are struggling in mainstream schools, but will be open to other children, including young carers, young parents and those with mental health problems. “It will be LGBT-inclusive, but not exclusive,” said Lee."
Is segregating pupils the right solution, or should we be focusing attention on eliminating homophobia from mainstream schools?
We need to focus on the elimination of homophobia. Separating them will just make them feel even worse. That would be teaching students that people who are LGBT should be treated differently. They shouldn't, they are human at the end of the day and we should all be treated the same. We need to focus on removing homophobia.
Usually I don't agree with segregated schools such as faith schools etc but I guess it would prevent bullying. I know in my school that when people first started coming out they were relentlessly reminded and taunted especially in year 9- kids don't always understand what they are saying and the impact of it so if they are not exposed to that it would certainly help in the short term, not sure about long term though
Original post by Blazar
Um, maybe because we've been literally hunted down and murdered by straight people for millennia?
Oh bugger off. No you haven't. Neither 'you', specifically, nor 'you' (we) the LGBT community.
I'm not agreeing with the person you were responding to, because I think complaining that 'they always get special treatment' is immature and silly, particularly when many LGBT teenagers are badly bullied, or are so unhappy that they contemplate suicide/end up suffering from mental illnesses.
Those a valid arguments to make in response to the person you were quoting. Your response was a knee jerk reaction without an ounce of truth to it. The Greeks and Romans, for example, were perfectly accepting of homosexuality. It wasn't until Christianity spread across Western Europe that it became taboo, and even then LGBT females didn't have much of an issue.
The 20th century (and potentially the 19th, but I'm not a Victorian specialist) was arguably the worst time to be gay, and it is true that gay people suffered huge injustices as a result of something that they couldn't change. However, that is not a valid reason to hate cishets, and it certainly isn't a valid reason to push incorrect and wildly unsubstantiated arguments at people.
Original post by Oli-Ol
Oh bugger off. No you haven't. Neither 'you', specifically, nor 'you' (we) the LGBT community.
I'm not agreeing with the person you were responding to, because I think complaining that 'they always get special treatment' is immature and silly, particularly when many LGBT teenagers are badly bullied, or are so unhappy that they contemplate suicide/end up suffering from mental illnesses.
Those a valid arguments to make in response to the person you were quoting. Your response was a knee jerk reaction without an ounce of truth to it. The Greeks and Romans, for example, were perfectly accepting of homosexuality. It wasn't until Christianity spread across Western Europe that it became taboo, and even then LGBT females didn't have much of an issue.
The 20th century (and potentially the 19th, but I'm not a Victorian specialist) was arguably the worst time to be gay, and it is true that gay people suffered huge injustices as a result of something that they couldn't change. However, that is not a valid reason to hate cishets, and it certainly isn't a valid reason to push incorrect and wildly unsubstantiated arguments at people.
I'm not agreeing with the person you were responding to, because I think complaining that 'they always get special treatment' is immature and silly, particularly when many LGBT teenagers are badly bullied, or are so unhappy that they contemplate suicide/end up suffering from mental illnesses.
Those a valid arguments to make in response to the person you were quoting. Your response was a knee jerk reaction without an ounce of truth to it. The Greeks and Romans, for example, were perfectly accepting of homosexuality. It wasn't until Christianity spread across Western Europe that it became taboo, and even then LGBT females didn't have much of an issue.
The 20th century (and potentially the 19th, but I'm not a Victorian specialist) was arguably the worst time to be gay, and it is true that gay people suffered huge injustices as a result of something that they couldn't change. However, that is not a valid reason to hate cishets, and it certainly isn't a valid reason to push incorrect and wildly unsubstantiated arguments at people.
Actually, you're the one whose argument is wrong. The Ancient Greeks and Romans were not "perfectly accepting of homosexuality". It was only accepted among men, and women were expected to conform to heterosexual norms. And the only example of anything resembling transgender representation that I can think of from that era is the myth of a princess (whose name I can't remember), but the legend goes that she wanted strength and so was turned into a man by Zeus, only to be crushed to death by a falling tree in a battle. In Book 6 of the Aeneid, she has returned to her original female form as a ghost, and wanders aimlessly round the area of the Underworld populated by miserable souls - hardly a happy ending.
You're also implying that I hate cishets, which is in itself "wildly unsubstantiated".
(edited 9 years ago)
It's strange, I don't recall seeing or hearing any homophobic bulling when I was at school because no pupil came out as LGBT. A few have done since. Is it more common now for people to come out at a younger age? Is it in their best interest given the social 'fitting-in' environment that surrounds most senior schools or would it be better to keep quiet for a few more years until they're past the school years? I know adults can still bully but I thought it was more prevalent in teenagers.
Original post by Oli-Ol
Oh bugger off. No you haven't. Neither 'you', specifically, nor 'you' (we) the LGBT community.
I'm not agreeing with the person you were responding to, because I think complaining that 'they always get special treatment' is immature and silly, particularly when many LGBT teenagers are badly bullied, or are so unhappy that they contemplate suicide/end up suffering from mental illnesses.
Those a valid arguments to make in response to the person you were quoting. Your response was a knee jerk reaction without an ounce of truth to it. The Greeks and Romans, for example, were perfectly accepting of homosexuality. It wasn't until Christianity spread across Western Europe that it became taboo, and even then LGBT females didn't have much of an issue.
The 20th century (and potentially the 19th, but I'm not a Victorian specialist) was arguably the worst time to be gay, and it is true that gay people suffered huge injustices as a result of something that they couldn't change. However, that is not a valid reason to hate cishets, and it certainly isn't a valid reason to push incorrect and wildly unsubstantiated arguments at people.
I'm not agreeing with the person you were responding to, because I think complaining that 'they always get special treatment' is immature and silly, particularly when many LGBT teenagers are badly bullied, or are so unhappy that they contemplate suicide/end up suffering from mental illnesses.
Those a valid arguments to make in response to the person you were quoting. Your response was a knee jerk reaction without an ounce of truth to it. The Greeks and Romans, for example, were perfectly accepting of homosexuality. It wasn't until Christianity spread across Western Europe that it became taboo, and even then LGBT females didn't have much of an issue.
The 20th century (and potentially the 19th, but I'm not a Victorian specialist) was arguably the worst time to be gay, and it is true that gay people suffered huge injustices as a result of something that they couldn't change. However, that is not a valid reason to hate cishets, and it certainly isn't a valid reason to push incorrect and wildly unsubstantiated arguments at people.
Actually, the Greeks and Romans weren't particularly accepting of homosexuality. They disapproved of homosexual interactions between women, and although a lot of men had sex with other men (or rather, boys), any romantic relationship was disapproved of. The whole Greek/Roman homosexuality thing was born out of misogyny. Obviously some of those people genuinely were LGBT+, but please don't make out they were accepting when in fact the sexual relationships would be known but not talked about, and they would have faced persecution if they had tried to live out their life with a same-sex partner.
Original post by Blazar
Actually, you're the one whose argument is wrong. The Ancient Greeks and Romans were not "perfectly accepting of homosexuality". It was only accepted among men, and women were expected to conform to heterosexual norms. And the only example of anything resembling transgender representation that I can think of from that era is the myth of a princess (whose name I can't remember), but the legend goes that she wanted strength and so was turned into a man by Zeus, only to be crushed to death by a falling tree in a battle. In Book 6 of the Aeneid, she has returned to her original female form as a ghost, and wanders aimlessly round the area of the Underworld populated by miserable souls - hardly a happy ending.
You're also implying that I hate cishets, which is in itself "wildly unsubstantiated".
You're also implying that I hate cishets, which is in itself "wildly unsubstantiated".
Original post by weevilface
Actually, the Greeks and Romans weren't particularly accepting of homosexuality. They disapproved of homosexual interactions between women, and although a lot of men had sex with other men (or rather, boys), any romantic relationship was disapproved of. The whole Greek/Roman homosexuality thing was born out of misogyny. Obviously some of those people genuinely were LGBT+, but please don't make out they were accepting when in fact the sexual relationships would be known but not talked about, and they would have faced persecution if they had tried to live out their life with a same-sex partner.
I stand corrected and apologise. Equally, the Victorians were fairly happy with LGBT females, although for males it was a heinous crime (admittedly, coming from the belief that women weren't sexual creatures).
I realise that my argument was poorly though-through, I've just seen too much cishet-white-men hating on other websites recently and responded irrationally.
Also, Blazar, I didn't intend to imply that you disliked heterosexual cis people- although on rereading my post I can see why it appeared that way- merely that it's the sort of logic I have seen used in the past by people who have presented similar arguments.
I'm not sure I'd class it as segregation if it's only for LGBT kids who are bullied, and it'd be offered after seeing a counselor rather than being forced upon them. Worst case scenario this is a small test school which disproves the idea.
They're not excluding other students so I don't have anything against it, I'm sure it would be a good LGBT space.
However I don't think it's the solution. Instead of removing LGBT students from the problem and shutting out bullies more work should be done to tackle the bullying in mainstream schools. You can't create LGBT spaces for your entire life (LGBT gym, LGBT work, LGBT shops) so instead the root of the problem should be the focus. More education on gay rights, the gay movement, LGBT issues, and acceptance of people from whatever background, be it race, belief, disability, sexuality, economic background.... that is what is needed in schools.
However I don't think it's the solution. Instead of removing LGBT students from the problem and shutting out bullies more work should be done to tackle the bullying in mainstream schools. You can't create LGBT spaces for your entire life (LGBT gym, LGBT work, LGBT shops) so instead the root of the problem should be the focus. More education on gay rights, the gay movement, LGBT issues, and acceptance of people from whatever background, be it race, belief, disability, sexuality, economic background.... that is what is needed in schools.
I don't think LGBT schools are a good idea. We are striving for equality, this idea promotes the segregation of LGBT children from other children.
Plus, the child would have to actually come out to their parents before going to this school, no?
Plus, the child would have to actually come out to their parents before going to this school, no?
Im a bit concerned that all this does is promote that there's a difference between LGBT people and straight people which is clearly not the case except sexuality and gender identity wise. If anything it would surely create more bullying or problems as it makes out that they need to be segregated. I know this is not the point the lady is making but surely splitting groups of people up is not the problem, children not being properly taught that bullying is wrong is!
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