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BAN Sharia Law and the use of Sharia courts within the UK

Part of the issue isnt whether it is legally binding, as the legality is not as important as whether the individuals feel compelled to comply. So while individuals could technically appeal to the courts for help if they feel they have been judged by the Sharia court unfairly, communal pressures may prevent them from doing so.

the individual has the choice to use them or not in the first place - that's why they shouldn't be banned - if they get mistreated/scammed then, like everything else in contract law, that's the place of the actual courts (sure)

Reply 61

Plantagenet Crown

20

Original post by StrawbAri

Whilst I'm not of the opinion that it should be completely banned (becasue live and let live), I still don't see why anyone would actually agree to sharia law. What is the spiritual benefit?
There are plenty of Muslims who don't adhere to it so it's not like the ones that do are holier or better Muslims than they are.

I disagree. This is the UK which has its own jurisprudence and legal system, why should a foreign one live alongside it? And especially one which is highly discriminatory and violates human rights?

Reply 62

Josb

6

Original post by driftawaay

It is the woman's decision to be a part of this so called 'tight knit community' so if she wishes to be a part of that then that's her choice. It is also her choice if she allows herself to be 'discouraged' from divorce. We are talking about adults here, not children. These people don't need you to hold their hands.

Precisely, some of them are married at a young age abroad and brought back to the UK.

Reply 63

childofthesun

19

Why was it even tolerated in the first place?

Reply 64

driftawaay

3

Original post by Josb

Precisely, some of them are married at a young age abroad and brought back to the UK.

And how is that relevant to any of this?

Reply 65

callum_law

6

Original post by Nununu

No they are not "acting as the intermediate justice between muslims and the government". You clearly have no idea how the law works. Oh and there is no " shariah law " in Britain. @callum_law a little help here.

There are Sharia arbitrations which will be enforced by the courts, so there is a degree of Sharia Law operating at a quasi-official level. Perhaps poetically you could say they act as intermediate justice (to a small degree) between Muslims and government. However, these arbitrations cover basic contract disputes and nothing really more complex that that. They cannot cover marriage in a legal way. No one would question the legitimacy of these Sharia arbitrations and they're all necessarily above aboard.

What is an issue is non-official and non-legal rulings by some Sharia clerics. These can often be entirely unfair and socially ruinous for the people concerned. It is unlikely the law can really address this problem caused by some religious men who sit in their houses drinking cups of tea whilst offering religious opinion. What the law can address and govern are the enforceable and entirely above board arbitrations which no one actually wants to change.

Reply 66

Josb

6

Original post by driftawaay

And how is that relevant to any of this?

Because the "contract" is passed before a sharia court. It's hard enough to be a 16yo girl in a forced marriage, adding an Islamic court that will advise/threaten her not to try anything against her situation will only make it worse.

Reply 67

Skystarlight

Original post by *Stefan*

She will say no, but you and me both know the answer to that.

Just look at her avatar lol...LMAO

Reply 68

user73867

19

Original post by Plantagenet Crown

I disagree. This is the UK which has its own jurisprudence and legal system, why should a foreign one live alongside it? And especially one which is highly discriminatory and violates human rights?

The military has its own jurisprudence and legal system.

That fairly regularly suspends the "human rights" of soldiers fighting for our country. (For example, when on tour, the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 isn't applicable.)

Yet, it works because it takes into account the very different situations that soldiers experience.

Assuming your principles apply across the board, would you also ban military law?

(I don't agree with Sharia law but I am trying to highlight some of the pitfalls in criticising it. If you get rid of Sharia, it's difficult not to obliterate several other forms of law too.)

Reply 69

StrawbAri

17

Original post by Plantagenet Crown

I disagree. This is the UK which has its own jurisprudence and legal system, why should a foreign one live alongside it? And especially one which is highly discriminatory and violates human rights?

I mostly said that becasue too many people will jump down my throat and accuse me of being discriminatory of their religious freedom if I stated otherwise.... And making it illegal won't stop certain Muslims from practicing it secretly for whatever strange reason

Even in my country where half the population and the president is Muslim, sharia law is still against the constitution. Yet some people still practice it despite the illegality.

Reply 70

driftawaay

3

Original post by Josb

Because the "contract" is passed before a sharia court. It's hard enough to be a 16yo girl in a forced marriage, adding an Islamic court that will advise/threaten her not to try anything against her situation will only make it worse.

As I said, sharia court is not legally binding in the UK so whatever contract is passed is irrelevant. A 16 year old is perfectly capable of going to the police if she is being forced into a marriage, we are not talking about a 5 year old child. If my father wanted to sell me to some man, I would go to the police. This is the UK in 2015, there is no such thing as forced marriage, there is a difference between accepting what your brainwashed family imposes on you and being legally forced to do something.

Reply 71

mkap

20

I dont see what the problem is with having a Sharia court in the UK. Not like they are imposing it on non Muslims or they are going to stone people to death or cut their hands off. they will not be doing anything illegal, just solving problems in an Islamic way.

Reply 72

Plantagenet Crown

20

Original post by StrawbAri

I mostly said that becasue too many people will jump down my throat and accuse me of being discriminatory of their religious freedom if I stated otherwise.... And making it illegal won't stop certain Muslims from practicing it secretly for whatever strange reason

Even in my country where half the population and the president is Muslim, sharia law is still against the constitution. Yet some people still practice it despite the illegality.

But this isn't an argument for not banning it. After all, murder is illegal and it still happens. The point is that if Sharia is banned, all Sharia courts in Britain will be dissolved and thus its influence will significantly decrease.

Reply 73

Josb

6

Original post by driftawaay

As I said, sharia court is not legally binding in the UK so whatever contract is passed is irrelevant. A 16 year old is perfectly capable of going to the police if she is being forced into a marriage, we are not talking about a 5 year old child. If my father wanted to sell me to some man, I would go to the police. This is the UK in 2015, there is no such thing as forced marriage, there is a difference between accepting what your brainwashed family imposes on you and being legally forced to do something.

By recognising Sharia courts, you give a legitimacy to the "clerics" that run them. Therefore, Muslims will go and see them first. If you forbid them, their influence will obviously decrease. That's the whole point.

Not gonna sign lol

Original post by driftawaay

As I said, sharia court is not legally binding in the UK so whatever contract is passed is irrelevant. A 16 year old is perfectly capable of going to the police if she is being forced into a marriage, we are not talking about a 5 year old child. If my father wanted to sell me to some man, I would go to the police. This is the UK in 2015, there is no such thing as forced marriage, there is a difference between accepting what your brainwashed family imposes on you and being legally forced to do something.

It's 2016 now.

Reply 76

Josb

6

Original post by mkap

I dont see what the problem is with having a Sharia court in the UK. Not like they are imposing it on non Muslims or they are going to stone people to death or cut their hands off. they will not be doing anything illegal, just solving problems in an Islamic way.

eg. favourable to men.

Reply 77

driftawaay

3

Original post by Josb

By recognising Sharia courts, you give a legitimacy to the "clerics" that run them. Therefore, Muslims will go and see them first. If you forbid them, their influence will obviously decrease. That's the whole point.

Nobody is recognizing Sharia courts. They are not legally binding. Muslims are free to see who they wish to, as I said they don't need you to hold their hands. If something illegal happens they will be prosecuted according to British law just like anyone else.