Medicine; Oxford and Cambridge courses
I'm looking fairly seriously at applying to either one of Oxford or Cambridge as one of my two BMAT application slots, however have received mixed feedback on how the two courses differ. Preferably, I would like to choose the uni I have a better chance of getting into, although I do have some preferences:
1.) I want to go into surgery, and so would prefer to go to a university aimed not solely at research, and which would be suitable for this. (This was something I was warned about by an orthopaedic surgeon- the high numbers of graduates going down the research route from both universities).
2.) I would prefer to go to one where there is not competition for places to finish the course (my worry being that I might be left without a full degree at the end of it).
If it helps, my GCSE results were 11 A*s and one A, and my predicted Pre-U's are for 3A*'s and one A in Biology, Chemistry, (Single) Maths, and Spanish.
Any info on this, as well as on anything regarding the discrepancies between the two medical courses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help i advance, and I look forward to your opinions.
Many thanks again.
1.) I want to go into surgery, and so would prefer to go to a university aimed not solely at research, and which would be suitable for this. (This was something I was warned about by an orthopaedic surgeon- the high numbers of graduates going down the research route from both universities).
2.) I would prefer to go to one where there is not competition for places to finish the course (my worry being that I might be left without a full degree at the end of it).
If it helps, my GCSE results were 11 A*s and one A, and my predicted Pre-U's are for 3A*'s and one A in Biology, Chemistry, (Single) Maths, and Spanish.
Any info on this, as well as on anything regarding the discrepancies between the two medical courses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help i advance, and I look forward to your opinions.
Many thanks again.
Neither of your questions are really going to help you decide between Oxford and Cambridge.
Both courses emphasise a "medicine as applied science" approach and include a research component. Maybe a greater number of Oxbridge graduates end up continuing with research after they qualify but they certainly don't have to. They are as free to pursue any specialty they like as graduates from other medical schools. Incidentally, it's quite difficult to progress in surgery at all these days without doing a lot of research including, in most cases, an MD or PhD degree. Orthopaedic surgeons are not renowned for their commitment to research but even that is changing and I think your contact sounds as if he/she might be behind the times.
Neither course limits the number of students that can graduate. That wouldn't make any sense at all and the aim will always be that 100% students graduate. You might be thinking of the fact that there is a numbers difference between the pre-clinical and clinical phases. For example, at Oxford, they have fewer places in the clinical phase than in the pre-clinical phase, which means that only around 80% of students can continue to pursue the clinical component of their degree in Oxford. However, that other 20% are guaranteed clinical places at Cambridge or the London medical schools and so everyone should still finish the degree. Cambridge used to have a similar arrangement but that might have changed - I'll let other people with more recent experience comment.
Both courses emphasise a "medicine as applied science" approach and include a research component. Maybe a greater number of Oxbridge graduates end up continuing with research after they qualify but they certainly don't have to. They are as free to pursue any specialty they like as graduates from other medical schools. Incidentally, it's quite difficult to progress in surgery at all these days without doing a lot of research including, in most cases, an MD or PhD degree. Orthopaedic surgeons are not renowned for their commitment to research but even that is changing and I think your contact sounds as if he/she might be behind the times.
Neither course limits the number of students that can graduate. That wouldn't make any sense at all and the aim will always be that 100% students graduate. You might be thinking of the fact that there is a numbers difference between the pre-clinical and clinical phases. For example, at Oxford, they have fewer places in the clinical phase than in the pre-clinical phase, which means that only around 80% of students can continue to pursue the clinical component of their degree in Oxford. However, that other 20% are guaranteed clinical places at Cambridge or the London medical schools and so everyone should still finish the degree. Cambridge used to have a similar arrangement but that might have changed - I'll let other people with more recent experience comment.
Original post by j505francis
I'm looking fairly seriously at applying to either one of Oxford or Cambridge as one of my two BMAT application slots, however have received mixed feedback on how the two courses differ. Preferably, I would like to choose the uni I have a better chance of getting into, although I do have some preferences:
1.) I want to go into surgery, and so would prefer to go to a university aimed not solely at research, and which would be suitable for this. (This was something I was warned about by an orthopaedic surgeon- the high numbers of graduates going down the research route from both universities).
2.) I would prefer to go to one where there is not competition for places to finish the course (my worry being that I might be left without a full degree at the end of it).
If it helps, my GCSE results were 11 A*s and one A, and my predicted Pre-U's are for 3A*'s and one A in Biology, Chemistry, (Single) Maths, and Spanish.
Any info on this, as well as on anything regarding the discrepancies between the two medical courses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help i advance, and I look forward to your opinions.
Many thanks again.
1.) I want to go into surgery, and so would prefer to go to a university aimed not solely at research, and which would be suitable for this. (This was something I was warned about by an orthopaedic surgeon- the high numbers of graduates going down the research route from both universities).
2.) I would prefer to go to one where there is not competition for places to finish the course (my worry being that I might be left without a full degree at the end of it).
If it helps, my GCSE results were 11 A*s and one A, and my predicted Pre-U's are for 3A*'s and one A in Biology, Chemistry, (Single) Maths, and Spanish.
Any info on this, as well as on anything regarding the discrepancies between the two medical courses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help i advance, and I look forward to your opinions.
Many thanks again.
1. I don't think there's an especially high number of graduates go into research from either university. Perhaps more than other universities, but there's certainly no pressure for this. Most medicine graduates from Oxbridge become clinical doctors. And anyway, even if most do go into research, that wouldn't affect you since you are free to choose your own path.
You can see some stats online: https://reports.gmc-uk.org/views/UKMedicalSchoolGraduatespecialtydestinationsv1/DASH_Pmqsperspecgroup?%3Atabs=no&%3Aembed=y&%3Atoolbar=no#1
Oxford and Cambridge are the two medical schools with the highest proportion of graduates becoming members of the Royal College of Surgeons. So I don't think either course will hinder you becoming a surgeon!! (Edit: my link appears to be broken, just take my word for it!
)2. Cambridge now guarantees 6 years in Cambridge to all accepted. At Oxford, some people do have to leave after attaining their BA, to get their MBBS in London, but as far as I know, you are guaranteed a place at a clinical school somewhere, they just can't guarantee which one it will be.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by j505francis
I'm looking fairly seriously at applying to either one of Oxford or Cambridge as one of my two BMAT application slots, however have received mixed feedback on how the two courses differ. Preferably, I would like to choose the uni I have a better chance of getting into, although I do have some preferences:
1.) I want to go into surgery, and so would prefer to go to a university aimed not solely at research, and which would be suitable for this. (This was something I was warned about by an orthopaedic surgeon- the high numbers of graduates going down the research route from both universities).
2.) I would prefer to go to one where there is not competition for places to finish the course (my worry being that I might be left without a full degree at the end of it).
If it helps, my GCSE results were 11 A*s and one A, and my predicted Pre-U's are for 3A*'s and one A in Biology, Chemistry, (Single) Maths, and Spanish.
Any info on this, as well as on anything regarding the discrepancies between the two medical courses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help i advance, and I look forward to your opinions.
Many thanks again.
1.) I want to go into surgery, and so would prefer to go to a university aimed not solely at research, and which would be suitable for this. (This was something I was warned about by an orthopaedic surgeon- the high numbers of graduates going down the research route from both universities).
2.) I would prefer to go to one where there is not competition for places to finish the course (my worry being that I might be left without a full degree at the end of it).
If it helps, my GCSE results were 11 A*s and one A, and my predicted Pre-U's are for 3A*'s and one A in Biology, Chemistry, (Single) Maths, and Spanish.
Any info on this, as well as on anything regarding the discrepancies between the two medical courses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help i advance, and I look forward to your opinions.
Many thanks again.
Basically, what @chiefwiggum said...although it's also worth noting Cambridge teaches anatomy through full-body dissection (plus the usual prosections, practicals and lectures) whilst Oxford don't do cadaveric dissection. Just something to think about
Best of luck with your application, wherever you choose to apply!
disclaimer - I am not a medical student, some of my friends are.
Cambridge turns out the highest proportion of students who go on to be surgeons. However I'm told people often change their mind about what they want to do.
Cambridge wont let you go on to London, the ones moving this year are the last.
Cambridge is pretty good at picking people who get great exam results. Oxford seem to have a slightly more diverse group. They offer interviews to fewer people.
Cambridge turns out the highest proportion of students who go on to be surgeons. However I'm told people often change their mind about what they want to do.
Cambridge wont let you go on to London, the ones moving this year are the last.
Cambridge is pretty good at picking people who get great exam results. Oxford seem to have a slightly more diverse group. They offer interviews to fewer people.
Original post by Chief Wiggum
Oxford and Cambridge are the two medical schools with the highest proportion of graduates becoming members of the Royal College of Surgeons. So I don't think either course will hinder you becoming a surgeon!! (Edit: my link appears to be broken, just take my word for it! )
Oxford and Cambridge are the two medical schools with the highest proportion of graduates becoming members of the Royal College of Surgeons. So I don't think either course will hinder you becoming a surgeon!! (Edit: my link appears to be broken, just take my word for it!
)Ooh I'd be interested to see this link - can you post it again or tell me how to find it please?
Original post by blueandpink
Ooh I'd be interested to see this link - can you post it again or tell me how to find it please?
OK, use this link: http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/25496.asp
Then click on "The link between a doctor's medical school and future specialty registration".
Then select, "Explore the link between a doctor's medical school and future specialty."
Then click the blue box at the bottom of the screen.
Then on the top left, you can select the specialty you want from the dropdown menu, eg, "Royal College of Physicians" or "Royal College of Surgeons" etc etc.
Original post by Chief Wiggum
OK, use this link: http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/25496.asp
Then click on "The link between a doctor's medical school and future specialty registration".
Then select, "Explore the link between a doctor's medical school and future specialty."
Then click the blue box at the bottom of the screen.
Then on the top left, you can select the specialty you want from the dropdown menu, eg, "Royal College of Physicians" or "Royal College of Surgeons" etc etc.
Then click on "The link between a doctor's medical school and future specialty registration".
Then select, "Explore the link between a doctor's medical school and future specialty."
Then click the blue box at the bottom of the screen.
Then on the top left, you can select the specialty you want from the dropdown menu, eg, "Royal College of Physicians" or "Royal College of Surgeons" etc etc.
Thanks! It's very interesting.
I'd just like to point out that the reason Imperial College (my medical school) looks bad (0% for everything apart from GP) is that 2010 was the first year you could choose to graduate from Imperial, so for all of these apart from GP, no-one from Imperial has finished training and is a consultant to be able be counted. Previously, everyone had to graduate from University of London technically.
To the OP, just apply to wherever suits your learning needs. You can end up doing whatever specialty you want to do and your mind is bound to change constantly throughout the course or even as a foundation doctor! Personally, I don't think dissection made a big difference. When you're a medical student you have no idea what you're dissecting and when you're working, your dissecting room memories will be so far away, it's pretty much irrelevant.
Some good responses above. Just to add to the chorus:
Oxford and Cambridge tend to produce the most surgeons. This is probably partially because of the research emphasis, something which is increasingly vital when applying to competitive specialities.
Everyone graduates. Oxford does London transfer but this is under a system whereby everyone is accepted somewhere - no one is left behind. As long as you pass your exams, you will graduate, and Oxford and Cambridge have probably the lowest exam failure rates, anecdotally.
Other differences: Cambridge med school is about twice the size, Cambridge has more emphasis on anatomy less on physiology. Oxford's intercalation period is longer (about 15 months) vs Cambridge's standard 1 year. More variety of intercalation options at Cambridge (though the oft cited ability to choose anything you like including law/philosophy/physics is increasingly rare). Cambridge has a very short (7 weeks), and pre-finals, elective period.
True, but if you are very keen there are plenty of opportunities to do dissection as well (with the guys who make the prosections). Either as a SSC or in your own time. They always have a few specimens on the go! I think they're constantly frustrated by how few people take up the opportunity.
Oxford and Cambridge tend to produce the most surgeons. This is probably partially because of the research emphasis, something which is increasingly vital when applying to competitive specialities.
Everyone graduates. Oxford does London transfer but this is under a system whereby everyone is accepted somewhere - no one is left behind. As long as you pass your exams, you will graduate, and Oxford and Cambridge have probably the lowest exam failure rates, anecdotally.
Other differences: Cambridge med school is about twice the size, Cambridge has more emphasis on anatomy less on physiology. Oxford's intercalation period is longer (about 15 months) vs Cambridge's standard 1 year. More variety of intercalation options at Cambridge (though the oft cited ability to choose anything you like including law/philosophy/physics is increasingly rare). Cambridge has a very short (7 weeks), and pre-finals, elective period.
Original post by Rhetorical Hips
whilst Oxford don't do cadaveric dissection.
True, but if you are very keen there are plenty of opportunities to do dissection as well (with the guys who make the prosections). Either as a SSC or in your own time. They always have a few specimens on the go! I think they're constantly frustrated by how few people take up the opportunity.
Dissection is not a particularly effective way of teaching anatomy to undergraduates. You spend endless hours scraping away fascia and trying to identify structures that you've often cut inadvertently. As blueandpink said, you aren't likely to remember much from the dissecting room except perhaps the smell... Prosections and good tutors are a much more effective way of learning. Nexttime is right that most medical schools have dissection opportunities if you are keen and seek them out, which also means not having to share a cadaver with 8-10 other students.
Speaking about anatomy teaching methods, there was an interesting paper (Gonsalvez et al.) published end of December about anatomy sessions, prosections/dissection and assessment outcomes. Found that there was a correlation between attendance at sessions and outcomes (weak though, r was 0.147-0.234... wonder why they only present the p value in the abstract? 
). Interestingly there was no difference between if anatomy was taught by prosection or dissection in test scores across both practical and theory grades - raises interesting questions that if this is the case, is it a good resource allocation to provide full cadavers for each new cohort?
). Interestingly there was no difference between if anatomy was taught by prosection or dissection in test scores across both practical and theory grades - raises interesting questions that if this is the case, is it a good resource allocation to provide full cadavers for each new cohort?Quick Reply
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