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Original post by Frank Underwood
Yes, because that's not evidence. It's a survey which shows that a very small percentage Muslims have favourable views towards ISIS.
They are not the terrorists, they are merely people in various countries across the world who like them. That does not make them terrorists, furthermore whether or not that article claims that however many million people are in favour of ISIS, 1.5 billion - that number DON'T support ISIS.
We cannot attack 1.5 billion Muslims because a bunch of them go on a terror attack.
They are not the terrorists, they are merely people in various countries across the world who like them. That does not make them terrorists, furthermore whether or not that article claims that however many million people are in favour of ISIS, 1.5 billion - that number DON'T support ISIS.
We cannot attack 1.5 billion Muslims because a bunch of them go on a terror attack.
Let's be precise here.
You said that the options given in the survey don't *guarantee* support for ISIS.
Its certainly consistent with support. You haven't shown people to be wrong, just that they can't say with as much confidence, that one survey illustrates support over different positive views.
However, here is the most important thing. This is but just one question from the whole Pew project. How do you explain the ones showing that terrorist attacks were OK by significant portions of the population? You can't hide behind a question that could be more precise, the implications and the evidence is clear.
Oh, and you have consistently changed terminology. Let's go back to the start. We are talking about extremist muslims, with similar - if not the same or worse - views as Islamic terrorism. The cumulative evidence of a decade or so of opinion polls which gage these views have produced a picture of millions upon millions of muslims - worldwide - who fit this description.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Slipandsquirm
Let's be precise here.
You said that the options given in the survey don't *guarantee* support for ISIS.
Its certainly consistent with support. You haven't shown people to be wrong, just that they can't say with as much confidence, that one survey illustrates support over different positive views.
However, here is the most important thing. This is but just one question from the whole Pew project. How do you explain the ones showing that terrorist attacks were OK by significant portions of the population? You can't hide behind a question that could be more precise, the implications and the evidence is clear.
Oh, and you have consistently changed terminology. Let's go back to the start. We are talking about extremist muslims, with similar - if not the same or worse - views as Islamic terrorism. The cumulative evidence of a decade or so of opinion polls which gage these views have produced a picture of millions upon millions of muslims - worldwide - who fit this description.
Posted from TSR Mobile
You said that the options given in the survey don't *guarantee* support for ISIS.
Its certainly consistent with support. You haven't shown people to be wrong, just that they can't say with as much confidence, that one survey illustrates support over different positive views.
However, here is the most important thing. This is but just one question from the whole Pew project. How do you explain the ones showing that terrorist attacks were OK by significant portions of the population? You can't hide behind a question that could be more precise, the implications and the evidence is clear.
Oh, and you have consistently changed terminology. Let's go back to the start. We are talking about extremist muslims, with similar - if not the same or worse - views as Islamic terrorism. The cumulative evidence of a decade or so of opinion polls which gage these views have produced a picture of millions upon millions of muslims - worldwide - who fit this description.
Posted from TSR Mobile
My point is being overcomplicated and manipulated by people including yourself.
My point is simple:
ISIS represents a tiny portion of Islam, it is wrong to blame 1.5 billion Muslims for the atrocities committed by ISIS, and someone who has a favourable view of ISIS is not necessarily an ISIS supporter or extremist.
Original post by BaconandSauce
Made up number
Yep
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by NickLCFC
#StopIslam is trending on Twitter in the UK.
Saw it too. Lots of Muslims reacting. Chill out guys the tag Is stopislam not stopmuslims.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Frank Underwood
My point is being overcomplicated and manipulated by people including yourself.
My point is simple:
ISIS represents a tiny portion of Islam, it is wrong to blame 1.5 billion Muslims for the atrocities committed by ISIS, and someone who has a favourable view of ISIS is not necessarily an ISIS supporter or extremist.
My point is simple:
ISIS represents a tiny portion of Islam, it is wrong to blame 1.5 billion Muslims for the atrocities committed by ISIS, and someone who has a favourable view of ISIS is not necessarily an ISIS supporter or extremist.
OK.
But here is the point people are trying to reply with.
It is wrong and can very shown to be false, to make a clean, simple line dividing ISIS with the rest of the Muslim population. It has been shown by survey after survey for a decade (a strong cumulative case, with many surveys reinforcing the evidence) that many millions of worldwide muslims have the same views as ISIS.
That apostates should be killed, that terrorist attacks are acceptable, that it is acceptable to retaliate with violence when someone draws Muhammad etc. Literally muslims, in some cases tell majority of countries, in the middle east and North Africa share these values and beliefs with ISIS.
So, the main, basic point is - actually, ISIS and many other Muslims aren't completely different. They share extremist views. Again, in the millions.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by NickLCFC
Yes. Since you've clearly not read through the thread let me summarise the source I am referring to. Bare in mind this is from Pew Research (a professional and reliable polling organisation):
At first they it seem like a small percentage of people that hold favourable views towards ISIS, but when you break down the numbers:
(6.5 million * 0.03) = 19500 (Jordan)
(~1.7 million * 0.06) = 102,000 (Palestine)
(250 million * 0.04) = 10,000,000 (Indonesia)
(75 million * 0.08) = 6,000,000 (Turkey)
(173 million * 0.14) = 24,220,000 (Nigeria)
(17 million * 0.08) = 1,360,000 (Burkina Faso)
(30 million * 0.11) = 3,300,000 (Malaysia)
(14 million * 0.11) = 1,540,000 (Senegal)
(182 million * 0.09) = 16,380,000 (Pakistan)
It comes out at 62,921,500 ISIS 'supporters' from this selection of 9 countries as well as a huge amount of people that 'don't know'. Now I don't know about you, but I consider people that hold favourable views of ISIS to be extremists. If you have any doubts about their polling methods, feel free to read up on their methodology. (http://www.pewglobal.org/internation...ar_select=2015)
On that link it will tell also tell you the margin of error for each country they carried out polls for in the their Spring 2015 surveys. They all have around a 3.0-5.0% margin of error. (E.g. polls in Indonesia have a 4.0% margin of error). I'm not for one second trying to say that your Muslim mates in the UK are extremist. I'm just trying to prove that the number of extremists (or what I consider to be extremists) isn't that small.
At first they it seem like a small percentage of people that hold favourable views towards ISIS, but when you break down the numbers:
(6.5 million * 0.03) = 19500 (Jordan)
(~1.7 million * 0.06) = 102,000 (Palestine)
(250 million * 0.04) = 10,000,000 (Indonesia)
(75 million * 0.08) = 6,000,000 (Turkey)
(173 million * 0.14) = 24,220,000 (Nigeria)
(17 million * 0.08) = 1,360,000 (Burkina Faso)
(30 million * 0.11) = 3,300,000 (Malaysia)
(14 million * 0.11) = 1,540,000 (Senegal)
(182 million * 0.09) = 16,380,000 (Pakistan)
It comes out at 62,921,500 ISIS 'supporters' from this selection of 9 countries as well as a huge amount of people that 'don't know'. Now I don't know about you, but I consider people that hold favourable views of ISIS to be extremists. If you have any doubts about their polling methods, feel free to read up on their methodology. (http://www.pewglobal.org/internation...ar_select=2015)
On that link it will tell also tell you the margin of error for each country they carried out polls for in the their Spring 2015 surveys. They all have around a 3.0-5.0% margin of error. (E.g. polls in Indonesia have a 4.0% margin of error). I'm not for one second trying to say that your Muslim mates in the UK are extremist. I'm just trying to prove that the number of extremists (or what I consider to be extremists) isn't that small.
PRSOM
Original post by NK18444
Hi there,
Can you get this evidence up from a reliable source because I'm part of many societies, clubs and charities here in the UK and am friends with many muslims. Whenever I ask for their true views on ISIS they don't sound very "favourable" about it quite the opposite actually. Have you asked any muslims of their views mate? Don't spur hate saying that an "alarming number" of muslims share or support terrorism. I don't think anyone in their right mind wants to support rapists, torturers, or brutal murderers, I know that I can't even watch stuff like that on TV never mind encourage it in real-life.
Peace and love always
NK
Can you get this evidence up from a reliable source because I'm part of many societies, clubs and charities here in the UK and am friends with many muslims. Whenever I ask for their true views on ISIS they don't sound very "favourable" about it quite the opposite actually. Have you asked any muslims of their views mate? Don't spur hate saying that an "alarming number" of muslims share or support terrorism. I don't think anyone in their right mind wants to support rapists, torturers, or brutal murderers, I know that I can't even watch stuff like that on TV never mind encourage it in real-life.
Peace and love always
NK
while most posters do not support (or are very careful not to sound as supporting ISIS), quite a few people refuse to condemn them, claim that ISIS are not actually killing "Sunni Muslims" but just deviant "rafidhi" (Shias) and "kuffar", then blame the US etc etc
Original post by Frank Underwood
It's roughly the number of Islamic extremists who have attacked the west in terror attacks.
It looks like you made it up.
What about the ones who would like to attack the west given the opportunity? All of ISIS to start with.
Belgium of all countries.
So sad.
So sad.
Rather unsurprisingly, IS have claimed responsibility of the attack.
Original post by NickLCFC
Yes. Since you've clearly not read through the thread let me summarise the source I am referring to. Bare in mind this is from Pew Research (a professional and reliable polling organisation):
At first they may seem like small percentages that hold favourable views towards ISIS, but when you break down the numbers:
(6.5 million * 0.03) = 19500 (Jordan)
(~1.7 million * 0.06) = 102,000 (Palestine)
(250 million * 0.04) = 10,000,000 (Indonesia)
(75 million * 0.08) = 6,000,000 (Turkey)
(173 million * 0.14) = 24,220,000 (Nigeria)
(17 million * 0.08) = 1,360,000 (Burkina Faso)
(30 million * 0.11) = 3,300,000 (Malaysia)
(14 million * 0.11) = 1,540,000 (Senegal)
(182 million * 0.09) = 16,380,000 (Pakistan)
It comes out at 62,921,500 ISIS 'supporters' from this selection of 9 countries as well as a huge amount of people that 'don't know'. Now I don't know about you, but I consider people that hold favourable views of ISIS to be extremists. If you have any doubts about their polling methods, feel free to read up on their methodology. (http://www.pewglobal.org/internation...ar_select=2015)
On that link it will tell also tell you the margin of error for each country they carried out polls for in the their Spring 2015 surveys. They all have around a 3.0-5.0% margin of error. (E.g. polls in Indonesia have a 4.0% margin of error). I'm not for one second trying to say that your Muslim mates in the UK are extremist. I'm just trying to prove that the number of extremists (or what I consider to be extremists) isn't that small.
At first they may seem like small percentages that hold favourable views towards ISIS, but when you break down the numbers:
(6.5 million * 0.03) = 19500 (Jordan)
(~1.7 million * 0.06) = 102,000 (Palestine)
(250 million * 0.04) = 10,000,000 (Indonesia)
(75 million * 0.08) = 6,000,000 (Turkey)
(173 million * 0.14) = 24,220,000 (Nigeria)
(17 million * 0.08) = 1,360,000 (Burkina Faso)
(30 million * 0.11) = 3,300,000 (Malaysia)
(14 million * 0.11) = 1,540,000 (Senegal)
(182 million * 0.09) = 16,380,000 (Pakistan)
It comes out at 62,921,500 ISIS 'supporters' from this selection of 9 countries as well as a huge amount of people that 'don't know'. Now I don't know about you, but I consider people that hold favourable views of ISIS to be extremists. If you have any doubts about their polling methods, feel free to read up on their methodology. (http://www.pewglobal.org/internation...ar_select=2015)
On that link it will tell also tell you the margin of error for each country they carried out polls for in the their Spring 2015 surveys. They all have around a 3.0-5.0% margin of error. (E.g. polls in Indonesia have a 4.0% margin of error). I'm not for one second trying to say that your Muslim mates in the UK are extremist. I'm just trying to prove that the number of extremists (or what I consider to be extremists) isn't that small.
Hi there,
there are a few factors to consider when using such polls as evidence. How much of the general public in places like Pakistan have access to use advanced polling systems and the people that do have access to the net are usually higher class in Pakistan with political agendas that may be fulfilled with terror attacks carried out by ISIS, also how many women are included in such ballots?
I'm a well traveled person I've visited many many muslim countries so I'm not just using the views of my mates in the UK.
I understand that those in war struck zones like Palestine blame other countries for not supporting them when there's outrage in other western lands when they are under any kind of threat, due to this these individuals may hold extremist views. But to be quite honest the reason for this is injustice, war and lack of support. As well as the spurring of hate by trying to encourage the generalisation that muslims favour terrorism through statistics, it causes tension for muslims like myself who are trying to get by in this crazy world through peace, love and education. I love the UK and all it has to offer, I try hard and give back so please don't throw shade by encouraging generalisation, because quite frankly it does evoke anger in other non muslims which can lead to normal (non extreme) practicing muslims being targeted through hate crimes.
Peace and love
NK
Original post by john2054
34 deaths so far
First death toll in the news was 1, then 11, then 13, and now 34. Wonder where its going to stop
Original post by xxvine
These people are just evil
It has nothing to with religion imo....similar to the nazis
It has nothing to with religion imo....similar to the nazis
You do realise the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant have admitted to doing this
Original post by QE2
Yet surveys of Muslims consistently show that levels of support for Islmist extremism vary from 5-10% in the UK, to more than 50% in the Middle East, N Africa and South Asia. (eg. 29% of Egyptian Muslims consider suicide bombing to be sometimes or often justified - Pew Research).
It is irrelevant that less than 1% of a group are actually carrying out attacks, if a significant number support their actions, and the vast majority support the ideology that inspires them. Did the fact that only a few thousand were actually involved in operating the death camps make the Nazi ideology supported by 8 million people any less abhorrent?
It is irrelevant that less than 1% of a group are actually carrying out attacks, if a significant number support their actions, and the vast majority support the ideology that inspires them. Did the fact that only a few thousand were actually involved in operating the death camps make the Nazi ideology supported by 8 million people any less abhorrent?
A miniscule amount to carry out the terrorism. An extremely large amount to blame the west for it and apologise for it.
Original post by BaconandSauce
You do realise the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant have admitted to doing this
Yeah I know
I don't believe they are religious or are doing it in the name of religion. If your doing it in the name of Islam why would you be killing your own people? They bomb Mosques...kill their own 'fellow' Muslims in these attacks etc...Wasn't one of the police officers in the Charlie Hebdo attacks Muslim?
For me they just have their own evil ideology and are just using religion to justify it because religion is the one thing that cannot be disregarded.
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