Am I wrong in feeling a little sorry for Adam Johnson?

Please quote specifically the line in the SOA that says under 13s cannot consent.

If someone who is 13-15 can give consent why would it be illegal to have sex with them?

Section 1 (1) Rape

A person (A) commits an offence if—

(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and

(c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

Section 5 (1) Rape of a child under 13

(1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person with his penis, and

(b)the other person is under 13.

Note the missing words in section 5

Reply 221

Katty3

16

Original post by Underscore__

Please quote specifically the line in the SOA that says under 13s cannot consent.

If someone who is 13-15 can give consent why would it be illegal to have sex with them?

Posted from TSR Mobile

The age of consent is 16. It is illegal for a person over that age to have sex with someone under the age of consent.

The police generally operate on the basis that if two teenagers consent to sex and they are close in age, it's not in the public interest to take it any further.

However; they will prosecute individuals who are significantly older than their underage partners. This is based on the belief that young teenagers may be manipulated and used for sex by significantly older and more mature partners.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 222

Underscore__

21

Original post by nulli tertius

If someone who is 13-15 can give consent why would it be illegal to have sex with them?

Section 1 (1) Rape

A person (A) commits an offence if—

(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and

(c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

Section 5 (1) Rape of a child under 13

(1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person with his penis, and

(b)the other person is under 13.

Note the missing words in section 5

So it doesn't explicitly say people under 13 cannot consent. The part about consent is also missing from s.9 so if it's absence means consent isn't possible that logic would apply to both s.5 and 9

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 223

Good bloke

19

Original post by Underscore__

So it doesn't explicitly say people under 13 cannot consent. The part about consent is also missing from s.9 so if it's absence means consent isn't possible that logic would apply to both s.5 and 9

Posted from TSR Mobile

Think again. It is all in the definition of the words. Rape is sex without consent, by definition. Under the law any penetrative sex with a child under 13 is rape. However, the law specifies that some (nevertheless illegal) penetrative sex can take place with an under 16, and punishes it with a lesser tariff. What stops it being rape is the consent of the victim.

Reply 224

knapdarloch

1

Original post by Kvothe the arcane

I think a 15 yo can reasonably consent to sex and having sex with them is not something that should be criminalized.

I don't see her as a victim.

So where would you draw the line? 14? 13? 12? When there's grass on the wicket?

Reply 225

Underscore__

21

Original post by Good bloke

Think again. It is all in the definition of the words. Rape is sex without consent, by definition. Under the law any penetrative sex with a child under 13 is rape. However, the law specifies that some (nevertheless illegal) penetrative sex can take place with an under 16, and punishes it with a lesser tariff. What stops it being rape is the consent of the victim.

It's punished with a lesser sentence because of the capacity to give factual consent. Consent is not mentioned in either section so if it's absence means that consent cannot occur in one section it means the same in the other

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 226

Good bloke

19

Original post by Underscore__

It's punished with a lesser sentence because of the capacity to give factual consent. Consent is not mentioned in either section so if it's absence means that consent cannot occur in one section it means the same in the other

Posted from TSR Mobile

Your are tying yourself in knots in a lost cause. By factual consent you must mean consent. Rape is a convenient word that means "sex without consent"; sex means "sex" (with or without consent). Words in acts of parliament have the ordinary meaning ascribed to them unless they are defined otherwise.

Reply 227

username1148663

21

6 years he has got probably serve 2

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 228

Odium

15

Original post by paul514

6 years he has got probably serve 2

Posted from TSR Mobile

this is probably true sadly

Reply 229

knapdarloch

1

Where'd your post go?

Reply 230

lolakirk

11

Original post by Twinpeaks

I mean, if she was less than one year older this wouldn't even be a legal issue?
The difference between when the incident happened, and a few months down the line draws the difference between a child too young for sex, and a woman, who to have sex with would be completely legal?

I know there needs to be a legal definition, a line to draw. But it just makes me feel uncomfortable somehow.

Yes, it is completely ridiculous. Teenagers are able to decide for themselves whether they wish to have sex with someone or not. There is no such thing as 'grooming' a teenager, you can only 'groom' someone if they are an actual child, aka 13 or under which means you are a pedophile. The age of consent and the average age to lose your virginity are are both 16 so it's ridiculous that this guy is suddenly a criminal because he had sex with someone who happened to be a few months younger. If this 15 year old was having sex with her 16 year old boyfriend, nobody on here would be freaking out about it but if she is sucking a 28 year old's cock, she is suddenly a little girl who should be playing with barbies. People have mental problems.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 231

lolakirk

11

Original post by knapdarloch

So where would you draw the line? 14? 13? 12? When there's grass on the wicket?

A 13 year old is a teenager so that's where the line should be drawn, children younger than 13. In fact that's the definition of pedophilia and that's where the line should be drawn, not at sixteen. Every other kid is having sex at 15, it doesn't make a difference whether it's with another 15 year old or a 17 year old or a 20 year old.

Reply 232

Silver Arrow

19

Original post by llys

He knew she was 15, and still targeted her. A 28-year-old very deliberately grooming a 15-year-old. There are no two ways about it.

As for the age of consent, I think that, in terms of maturity, there is a big difference between 15 and 16.

Hardly.

Reply 233

Dodgypirate

6

Roses are red
Johnson is keen
He'll sign your shirt
And pretend you're 16

Reply 234

knapdarloch

1

Original post by lolakirk

A 13 year old is a teenager so that's where the line should be drawn, children younger than 13. In fact that's the definition of pedophilia and that's where the line should be drawn, not at sixteen. Every other kid is having sex at 15, it doesn't make a difference whether it's with another 15 year old or a 17 year old or a 20 year old.

Or a 60 year old?

Reply 235

the bear

20

Original post by Dodgypirate

Roses are red
Johnson is keen
He'll sign your shirt
And pretend you're 16

Roses are red
This is your cell
Meet your mate Crusher
He's Mackem as well

Reply 236

chosenone93

19

The passion in the way some of you are sympathizing with him for having sex with a school girl is suspicious to say the least.

Reply 237

Joep95

19

6 years is too much when female teaching assistants can actually have sex with a student 50 times and get no jail time.

Reply 238

lolakirk

11

Original post by knapdarloch

Or a 60 year old?

Yes, exactly. Just because you find it inappropriate doesn't mean a 15 year old can't consent. And consent doesn't depend on the sexual partner's age. If you consent decide to have sex with a someone your own age, you can consent to having sex with anyone.