Iranian baby scheduled for US heart surgery &quot;banned&quot;

Original post by AlexanderHam

Also, she's a tiny baby for goodness sake. Who needs our help. A bit of common humanity would be appropriate, no? She doesn't even know what insurance is, but you want to accuse this baby of being a scam artist? What happened to compassion

That is equality of outcome and equality of outcome is the path to the dark side.

Reply 43

username2705335

6

Some of the replies make me want to lose faith in humanity.

Reply 44

Ladbants

21

The US is just controlling their borders. Their country, their rules. The child can seek treatment in another country. Canada has offered to provide it, I believe.

Reply 45

Ladbants

21

Original post by AlexanderHam

Aren't these people always going on about the sanctity of life? About how the innocent must be protected and their life has inherent, priceless value? It seems that while you are in the womb your life is sacred to these people, but the second you are born you suddenly become worthless to them. Which tells us everything we need to know about their objections to abortion; it has nothing to do with the sanctity of innocent life and everything to do with controlling womens' reproductive choices.

Though in fairness, the Nazi wing of the Trump movement are not opposed to abortion; they have long been in favour of killing "subhumans", the disabled, etc. In their eyes, this little girl is probably a "subhuman" because she's not white, and therefore they would rejoice in her death. Sick people.

Just because, as Christians, we believe in the sanctity of life does not mean that we need to let anyone from every country through our borders. We do not need to provide every single person on Earth with taxpayer funded care if we cannot afford to do so, but hopefully the day will come when everyone does receive proper medical care for their problems. Christians do donate large amounts of money to charities that provide healthcare and services abroad, they are already doing a lot to help.

Reply 46

999tigger

Original post by the bear

Why can't Turkey do the operation ? they have high quality surgeons etc.

https://www.medicaltourismco.com/pediatric-heart-surgery-in-turkey/

I believe it was because Oregon had very good surgeons with a 97% success rate and the mother had relatives there who could provide a support system. Perhaps they told them about the repitaion for paedeatric surgery Does Turkey have as high a success rate?

All a bit moot now anyway., it's all sorted so you can let your Turkish friends stand down.

Reply 47

TheGoodPharaoh

16

Original post by saraxh

Some of the replies make me want to lose faith in humanity.

Lost mine a long time ago lol

Reply 48

999tigger

Original post by Ladbants

Just because, as Christians, we believe in the sanctity of life does not mean that we need to let anyone from every country through our borders. We do not need to provide every single person on Earth with taxpayer funded care if we cannot afford to do so, but hopefully the day will come when everyone does receive proper medical care for their problems. Christians do donate large amounts of money to charities that provide healthcare and services abroad, they are already doing a lot to help.

Are you a practicing Christian? Are you American?

You are a bit behind the times as its already been agreed the child is allowed to enter the states and her operation has been sorted.

Reply 49

AlexanderHam

OP

Original post by Ladbants

Just because, as Christians, we believe in the sanctity of life does not mean that we need to let anyone from every country through our borders.

If Joseph, Mary and Baby Jesus turned up at the border, and Jesus had a heart condition, you would turn them away and probably cast insults at their back, calling them "welfare queens" and "queue jumpers". Ladies and gentlemen, I give you modern conservative Christianity.

with taxpayer funded care

What does this have to do with taxpayer-funded care? Nothing.

Christians do donate large amounts of money to charities

Other Christians do. Do you donate large amounts of money?

Many of the Christians who donate large amounts of money are the type of Christian, like Pope Francis, who right-wingers hate for at least trying to live according to the "Love thy neighbour as thyself" and "turn the other cheek" doctrines of the religion.

Your doctrine seems to be, "Quick, don't let the scam artist baby into the country, we can't afford to allow them to have a heart operation here" strain of the religion. Somehow, it just doesn't have the same ring to it. I wonder what Jesus would think of it?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 50

Chief Wiggum

Nice to see the left-wingers support the US Health System now... Normally they like to complain about how evil the system of American healthcare is...

Reply 51

oldercon1953

13

Original post by AlexanderHam

By itself, no. But as another data point (along with the Yezidi women banned, the Iraqi army translators who helped the US fight Al-Qaeda, the Green Card holders who are already permanent residents and were simply overseas when the ban came into effect), it stands as yet another brick in the 'Wall of Discredit'. This policy was a complete mess, it had no basis in logic or policy, its only motive was political; countries like Saudi Arabia, from which 15 of 19 of the hijackers on 9/11 came from, are excluded while countries whose citizen had killed zero Americans on American soil in the last 40 years were included.

This was a Bannon initiative; he thought he was being extremely clever, that he was "disorienting" the "opposition", but in fact it's just made the administration look incompetent and cruel. In fact, in the Executive Order they accidentally wrote the wrong statute they were citing as the basis for their powers! These were basic errors that would have been avoided even if it were drafted in the cheapest high street law office, that such an error occurred

It is a temporary ban to catch bad guys. If you tell the bad guys your starting a ban this fri. they will simply come here on thursday. If you give someone coming for surgery a chance to change their plans you're giving a terrorist a chance to chande his plans.

Reply 52

AlexanderHam

OP

Original post by oldercon1953

It is a temporary ban to catch bad guys.

No, it's really not. If you believe that you're quite gullible. The ban has nothing to do with actual counter-terrorism; it's purely a PR exercise. Steve Bannon admitted as much.

If you tell the bad guys your starting a ban this fri. they will simply come here on thursday.

If it's so easy for the terrorists to get in, why weren't they in the US already? The answer is because it's already extremely difficult to get into the US if you're from one of those countries. There have been zero deaths in terror attacks on US soil caused by people from the banned countries between 1975 and 2015.

On the other hand, Saudi Arabia which was left out of the ban, was the origin of 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11. Pakistan was the source of the San Bernardino terrorists, and it also is left off the list.

As I said, it clearly has nothing to do with counterterrorism. Steve Bannon said that it was a political move to "shock and awe" the political opposition. Bannon thinks he's much cleverer than he actually is, because the ban has simply made the White House look completely incompetent, and Trump look impotent as the courts have put a stay on the enforcement of this unconstitutional order.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 53

Original post by AlexanderHam

Now, in addition to the Yezidi women and Iraqi army translators who helped US forces fight Al-Qaeda, we can add a little Iranian lassie called Fatima, who needed a heart surgery which, if conducted in Iran, only has a 30% survival rate but in the US a 97% survival rate.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/03/trump-travel-ban-baby-girl-iran-surgery-oregon

I hope she is allowed in :frown:

and at the same time we have banned a load of child refugees...

Reply 54

Original post by Chief Wiggum

Nice to see the left-wingers support the US Health System now... Normally they like to complain about how evil the system of American healthcare is...

It still was evil and stupid under Obama. It has just moved even further in the wrong direction.

I'm sure you are totally sincere in wanting the USA to have a socialised healthcare system and are not just enjoying bashing "left-wingers".

Reply 55

AlexanderHam

OP

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

and at the same time we have banned a load of child refugees...

I know. I'm somewhat hawkish on general immigration matters (I believe it needs to be reduced), but this new move by the government to stop the child refugee programme is completely disgusting. What possible reason could they have to do that? The numbers we're talking about are miniscule (a couple hundred here, a few hundred there).

I suppose when I said "what possible reason", a possible reason is this policy of nervous conciliation to the worst elements of the lunatic right. I'm very disppointed in Theresa May, this is a huge mistake

Reply 56

Chief Wiggum

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

It still was evil and stupid under Obama. It has just moved even further in the wrong direction.

I'm sure you are totally sincere in wanting the USA to have a socialised healthcare system and are not just enjoying bashing "left-wingers".

Lol, America is free to choose its own healthcare system. I was just semi-trolling tbh.

Reply 57

Original post by AlexanderHam

I know. I'm somewhat hawkish on general immigration matters (I believe it needs to be reduced), but this new move by the government to stop the child refugee programme is completely disgusting. What possible reason could they have to do that? The numbers we're talking about are miniscule (a couple hundred here, a few hundred there).

This is exactly the problem. These numbers are so small that to be against them is just spitefully playing with human lives for political gain or criminal negligence levels of ignorance.

Reply 58

999tigger

Original post by oldercon1953

It is a temporary ban to catch bad guys. If you tell the bad guys your starting a ban this fri. they will simply come here on thursday. If you give someone coming for surgery a chance to change their plans you're giving a terrorist a chance to chande his plans.

The DOJ failed to present any evidence that there was an imminent threat from these countries. One of the reasons their appeal was refused. If they had done, then then it would have strengthened their case considerably.

Reply 59

Joep95