Which secondary school to target? DD wants to study Maths at Uni

its probably cos you tick every single box of the 'horrible pushy parent'. at that age your opinions are a reflection of your parents' opinions. the only reason an 11 year old says she wants to do maths and does loads of maths problems is because their parents have decided that for her already and have pushed her into maths. preparing for JMC while in year 5 is not normal. revising on weekends in year 5 is not normal. i guarantee you, at this rate, she will burn out within five years.

absolute *******s. stop spreading false information and garbage opinions

Reply 41

squeakysquirrel

20

Original post by Coolcat16

Hi all,
My daughter is currently in Year5 at a local state primary school. She is good at maths and enjoys it. Her long term goal is to study maths at Cambridge.

11 plus exams are fast approaching. We must now decide which schools we want to aim for. I have a nagging feeling somewhere that we didn't do a thorough research to help DD choose a school that suits her. We live in Croydon, but we are happy to move anywhere (commutable to London) for the right school. So far, we've been considering Tonbridge Grammar School, Newstead Wood School and Henrietta Barnett school.

Henrietta Barnett is our #1 choice. Why? Because its the only state school that stands in the top10 alongside top privates. Because they have a impressive Oxbridge record.

Please can I ask the wise people of this forum to help my daughter choose the right school ?

1. DD plans to start preparing for UKMT Junior challenge soon. Does Henrietta Barnett school offer support /guidance if she wants to work towards BMO?

2. Which secondary schools would you recommends we consider for her?

3. We haven't looked at private secondaries at all. We can afford to send her to one of those top secondaries but that means major compromises on lifestyle for us. In your opinion, do you think sending her private is worth it ? Do private schools really make a difference in terms of polish etc or are top state secondaries as good?

Any other relevant advise is gratefully received.

It is a bit young for her to be considering universities and there are other institutions.

My background - we moved to Tunbridge Wells and put all three of our children through the grammar school system and it has been excellent. We chose Tunbridge Wells because it is a slightly nicer town than TOnbridge. You have the choice of many grammars - Tunbridge Wells Girls, Tonbridge Grammar and I think Judd take girls - definitely in sixth form. Judd is up there with Henrietta Barnett. You have to play the system if you want a really good state education and you are right to start thinking now. You will need to move to the area you pick.

The results - well my eldest is just about to start a Masters in Building Surveying. My second is a Physics graduate from Bristol - he is a teacher at one of the best schools in the country - won't say which one and my youngest - she studied Maths at UCL, rejected Cambridge for her masters and is now doing a Phd at Imperial. All products of a good state school.

PM me if you want any advice

Reply 42

username3241940

OP

1

Original post by xianlong

the only reason an 11 year old says she wants to do maths and does loads of maths problems is because their parents have decided that for her already and have pushed her into maths. preparing for JMC while in year 5 is not normal. revising on weekends in year 5 is not normal. i guarantee you, at this rate, she will burn out within five years.

Oh please !! just because you have different interests, it doesnt make all others not normal.

Oh btw, how do you know about all the boxes that need to be ticked to be a horribly pushy parents!! Is that what you are studying at the moment?

If you have NOTHING positive to contribute to a thread, stay away from it.

Preparing for JMC in year 5 is not normal. My daughters interest and her ability in maths isnt normal. she is gifted (this is not just my opinion, her teachers and her head teacher agree too)

I will no longer reply to rubbish replies and random hateful accusations on my thread. I dont owe anyone any explanations. If you think I am a pushy parent, its your problem. Not mine.

Reply 43

username3241940

OP

1

Original post by squeakysquirrel

It is a bit young for her to be considering universities and there are other institutions.

My background - we moved to Tunbridge Wells and put all three of our children through the grammar school system and it has been excellent. We chose Tunbridge Wells because it is a slightly nicer town than TOnbridge. You have the choice of many grammars - Tunbridge Wells Girls, Tonbridge Grammar and I think Judd take girls - definitely in sixth form. Judd is up there with Henrietta Barnett. You have to play the system if you want a really good state education and you are right to start thinking now. You will need to move to the area you pick.

The results - well my eldest is just about to start a Masters in Building Surveying. My second is a Physics graduate from Bristol - he is a teacher at one of the best schools in the country - won't say which one and my youngest - she studied Maths at UCL, rejected Cambridge for her masters and is now doing a Phd at Imperial. All products of a good state school.

PM me if you want any advice

Thanks a million. This one reply was worth posting here. I will PM you shortly.

Thanks again.

Reply 44

finance_goy

Original post by Coolcat16

Oh please !! just because you have different interests, it doesnt make all others not normal.

Oh btw, how do you know about all the boxes that need to be ticked to be a horribly pushy parents!! Is that what you are studying at the moment?

If you have NOTHING positive to contribute to a thread, stay away from it.

Preparing for JMC in year 5 is not normal. My daughters interest and her ability in maths isnt normal. she is gifted (this is not just my opinion, her teachers and her head teacher agree too)

I will no longer reply to rubbish replies and random hateful accusations on my thread. I dont owe anyone any explanations. If you think I am a pushy parent, its your problem. Not mine.

What makes you think you daughter is gifted? I have a few questions....

1) Do you or your husband hold any higher level qualifications? Masters? PhD?
2) What level of maths is your daughter working at?

I did a maths degree ironically at undergraduate level.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 45

squeakysquirrel

20

Original post by Coolcat16

Hi all,
My daughter is currently in Year5 at a local state primary school. She is good at maths and enjoys it. Her long term goal is to study maths at Cambridge.

11 plus exams are fast approaching. We must now decide which schools we want to aim for. I have a nagging feeling somewhere that we didn't do a thorough research to help DD choose a school that suits her. We live in Croydon, but we are happy to move anywhere (commutable to London) for the right school. So far, we've been considering Tonbridge Grammar School, Newstead Wood School and Henrietta Barnett school.

Henrietta Barnett is our #1 choice. Why? Because its the only state school that stands in the top10 alongside top privates. Because they have a impressive Oxbridge record.

Please can I ask the wise people of this forum to help my daughter choose the right school ?

1. DD plans to start preparing for UKMT Junior challenge soon. Does Henrietta Barnett school offer support /guidance if she wants to work towards BMO?

2. Which secondary schools would you recommends we consider for her?

3. We haven't looked at private secondaries at all. We can afford to send her to one of those top secondaries but that means major compromises on lifestyle for us. In your opinion, do you think sending her private is worth it ? Do private schools really make a difference in terms of polish etc or are top state secondaries as good?

Any other relevant advise is gratefully received.

Just to add to the mix - don't fixate on the maths - my daughter wanted to do philosophy and ethics at university and then wanted to do medicine. She was absolutely adamant that she hated maths and did not want to do it for A level. 2 weeks in the local hospital put paid to the medical career - thank you grimy patients! she would have been a terrible doctor - and a persuasive teacher convinced her to do maths.

Some private schools are worth it - you need to look at the university destinations to see the results - but the majority are not. My niece and nephews - all privately educated have nowhere near the GCSE and A Level results that my children ( state) have. They can come out with a lovely accent and a working knowledge of lacrosse but they flounder when they get to uni because they are mixing with poor people and have to think for themselves - but I would look at Sevenoaks, Benenden, Wellington, Brighton.

Reply 46

HopelessMedic

19

Original post by Coolcat16

Did you know at 10 what you wanted to do with that pilot license ?

ofcourse its hard to predict her ability at this age. Do you think I should say "stop being so stupid, you can never get into cambridge" ? .I wont. Even if she tells me she wants to be a supermodel, I wont ever tell her she cant do it. I will do everything I can to support her and help her get there. At this point, given the info we have, I know maths will be her strength even if she chooses biology at Uni. So, I am trying to get her into a school that supports her in her NATURALLY talented subject, even if she decides to do something else later on.

Encouraging your daughter to pursue her goals is one thing and is admirable, but personally i think setting Cambridge as a target from such a young age isn't healthy.

As you know it is extremely competitive and being rejected is tough to take, but it would be even more difficult if you had been dreaming of the uni for over 10 years, building it up in your mind and ect.
I would place less emphasis on setting a definite goal and instead just continue to allow her to enjoy maths naturally without the added pressure of needing to succeed.

Reply 47

Doones

21

Original post by squeakysquirrel

My background - we moved to Tunbridge Wells

May I ask, where did you move from?

If OP likes Croydon I'm not convinced it's necessary to move.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 48

squeakysquirrel

20

Original post by Doonesbury

May I ask, where did you move from?

If OP likes Croydon I'm not convinced it's necessary to move.

Africa!

Reply 49

Doones

21

Original post by squeakysquirrel

Africa!

Ha! Well that's a bit different then :smile:

Reply 50

ThatPerson

18

Original post by Coolcat16

Hi all,
My daughter is currently in Year5 at a local state primary school. She is good at maths and enjoys it. Her long term goal is to study maths at Cambridge.

11 plus exams are fast approaching. We must now decide which schools we want to aim for. I have a nagging feeling somewhere that we didn't do a thorough research to help DD choose a school that suits her. We live in Croydon, but we are happy to move anywhere (commutable to London) for the right school. So far, we've been considering Tonbridge Grammar School, Newstead Wood School and Henrietta Barnett school.

Henrietta Barnett is our #1 choice. Why? Because its the only state school that stands in the top10 alongside top privates. Because they have a impressive Oxbridge record.

Please can I ask the wise people of this forum to help my daughter choose the right school ?

1. DD plans to start preparing for UKMT Junior challenge soon. Does Henrietta Barnett school offer support /guidance if she wants to work towards BMO?

2. Which secondary schools would you recommends we consider for her?

3. We haven't looked at private secondaries at all. We can afford to send her to one of those top secondaries but that means major compromises on lifestyle for us. In your opinion, do you think sending her private is worth it ? Do private schools really make a difference in terms of polish etc or are top state secondaries as good?

Any other relevant advise is gratefully received.

I'm going to make several points.

1) I disagree with some people in this thread saying that the school isn't a factor in admission and that good pupils will 'get there anyway'; this is patently false; children aren't born independent learners and without good teachers the odds are stacked against them - it's part of the reason Cambridge take a school's academic performance into consideration when making a decision. However as long as it's a good school It's not worth stressing too much about differences between them; your daughter will do well regardless.

2) I think Cambridge Maths is a reasonable aspiration as long as it's not forced on the child (which I'm not saying is the case), however do try not to have such a fixed goal because if she doesn't meet it in the end it would have a very negative emotional effect. Besides there are multiple great universities for maths and in a few years her interests could change altogether (For example I study maths but I flirted with law and a few other career paths before I really knew what I wanted to do).

3) Good state schools are better in my opinion because they provide a more diverse social environment, and it's important to not grow up in an affluent bubble.

4) There is nothing wrong with supporting a child wanting to do JMC or BMO if that is where there interests lie.

Reply 51

username457532

17

Original post by Coolcat16

Oh please !! just because you have different interests, it doesnt make all others not normal.

Oh btw, how do you know about all the boxes that need to be ticked to be a horribly pushy parents!! Is that what you are studying at the moment?

If you have NOTHING positive to contribute to a thread, stay away from it.

Preparing for JMC in year 5 is not normal. My daughters interest and her ability in maths isnt normal. she is gifted (this is not just my opinion, her teachers and her head teacher agree too)

I will no longer reply to rubbish replies and random hateful accusations on my thread. I dont owe anyone any explanations. If you think I am a pushy parent, its your problem. Not mine.

It's worth remembering that 'gifted' at age 9 or 10 doesn't mean someone is going to be top at age 16 or 18 or 21. I was a 'gifted' kid at maths in Primary and Secondary. By A Levels I was 'above average' and when I got to uni to study physics I struggled and dropped out. Primary school maths isn't comparable to uni maths. And while every primary school might have maybe 1 or 2 'gifted' kids a year or every other year - that's still A LOT of kids.

It's good to encourage your daughters passions. But you don't need to move house to be at 'the best school' for her. At 9 or 10 she really is too young to be certain. Yes, there are some people who decide their career path at about age 6 and end up doing that for their whole lives. But the vast majority of people change their ideas of what they want to do several times before settling on a career/degree course etc.

If she enjoys doing maths questions then encourage that. But heavy tutoring for either school or outside maths competitions really isn't necessary. And moving to a different town/city to get into 'the best school' for your 9 or 10 year old is honestly ridiculous.

Original post by SmallTownGirl

And while every primary school might have maybe 1 or 2 'gifted' kids a year or every other year

Primary schools are expected to identify between 10% and 15% of each cohort as 'gifted'.

Reply 53

Notnek

21

Opinions are fine but please keep the comments civil and avoid using derogatory language. Any more posts containing insults will be removed.

Reply 54

username457532

17

Original post by Mr M

Primary schools are expected to identify between 10% and 15% of each cohort as 'gifted'.

At the size of my primary school that would have been about 2 kids per class. But I probably think most primary schools have less kids then they actually do cos mine was kinda small (although not like 9 kids to a year small).

But that really does kinda show that labelling a kid 'gifted' isn't really that relevant. Yeah, they're better at a certain subject (or in general) then most of their class - but that's a really huge amount of kids - and their not all going to Oxford or Cambridge.

Reply 55

rayofsunshine98

15

Original post by Coolcat16

Very impressive. Congratulations!

Its not the reputation - its the quality of teaching and academic environment that I am thinking about. There are some really motivated children who do well no matter what. They are driven from inside. My daughter is like that NOW. But, when she gets into her teens, its her friends etc that will influence her greatly. In selective schools, the environment is very academic - so Im thinking it could be a better choice even if it means selling our home and moving.

I'm happy to be corrected.

Thanks 😀

I know the sixth form college I turned an offer down from was very academic, especially in comparison to my current school, where there are a lot of behavioural issues - but honestly, from someone who is in that process currently, the whole process from application through to summer exams can be rather stressful and therefore having a good network of friends around you is really helpful. And whilst I know that moving now would allow your daughter to make good friendships before that time came, there is also the possibility that she may struggle to settle in. I would also make the point that, according to my school ofsted report from January this year, the quality of teaching at my school requires improvement. And I was one of the top GCSE students in my area, including getting better grades than most students in the year 11 group from our nearest private school, so clearly grades etc are also affected by the motivation and general ability of the student. I can certainly see your point, but it's also worth bearing in mind that, as one of my teachers said to me before my interview, if Cambridge think you're good enough for them to educate, it doesn't matter what school,you come from, they will offer you a place. So a selective school or not certainly wouldn't be the end of the world.

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Reply 56

rayofsunshine98

15

Original post by Doonesbury

It's not necessary, and I think the added pressure/stress of uprooting and moving just to "benefit" your daughter could end up being counter-productive.

My son went to a reasonably good local comp after missing out (narrowly) on grammar school places at Y7 and again for Y12/13. We refused to go down the additional 11+/entrance tutoring that seems to be the norm.

He's now at Cambridge, after self-studying STEP, etc (although for Engineering not Maths). He also changed his mind at least 3 times about his course during the year before applying.

I would be very wary about pushing (or encouraging her to push herself) down a specialised path at this early stage. Of course give her any encouragement she needs, and help her to take advantage of any opportunities, but please don't invest too emotionally in Cambridge as the be-all and end-all. There be dragons down that path...

Agreed.

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Reply 57

rayofsunshine98

15

To everyone saying that year 5 is too young to know what you want to do with your life, I would also point out that I've known what I wanted to do since I was in like year 1. I mean, yes, when I started secondary school I decided I wanted to be a maths teacher rather than I primary school one (I didn't realise you could just teach one subject before I got to secondary school) but within a year, I wanted to do science, and I haven't looked back.

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Reply 58

davros

16

Original post by Mr M

Primary schools are expected to identify between 10% and 15% of each cohort as 'gifted'.

This sounds like a pretty terrifying practice to me. Do the kids get a choice about being labelled as 'gifted', or do they just have to put up with it?

Reply 59

username457532

17

Original post by rayofsunshine98

To everyone saying that year 5 is too young to know what you want to do with your life, I would also point out that I've known what I wanted to do since I was in like year 1. I mean, yes, when I started secondary school I decided I wanted to be a maths teacher rather than I primary school one (I didn't realise you could just teach one subject before I got to secondary school) but within a year, I wanted to do science, and I haven't looked back.

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Yes, of course there are a few people who decide when they're in primary school what they want to do and end up doing that job. But that's a very small number of people and most of the time the kids know what that job kinda involves (often because a parent or another relative does that job). A 10 year old almost certainly has no idea what a mathematician does or even what uni maths involves - I know because at that age I loved maths and wanted to do it for a job. Only an EXCEPTIONAL 10 year old would be doing anything at all similar to even A Level maths. And I'm sure OP's daughter isn't one of those kids because if she was OP would have suggested at some point whether their daughter should consider taking her GCSEs early.

Which secondary school to target? DD wants to study Maths at Uni

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