London violence could take a generation to solve claims Mayor
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Original post by Andrew97
Guns have one purpose. Knives have non murdering purposes.
Guns also have non murdering purposes.
Original post by Likkle Pussyo
Ban knives?
How am I meant to chop my onions you pillock.
How am I meant to chop my onions you pillock.
Cook and eat them whole.
Original post by Notoriety
So don't ban knives. Ban blacks?
Seems like my nan was right all along.
Seems like my nan was right all along.
I don't believe I used the word "ban" anywhere. My points are...
1) We are never going to be able to restrict access to knives in the way that we have done with firearms for example, they are a far too ubiquitous and widely item in everyday life. This intense focus people seem to have on so called "knife crime", is misguided and dodges the real issues, it's a flimsy attempt to plaster over one symptom of the much deeper problem of violent crime. The fact we have increasing numbers of people willing to do violence upon one another in the first place, is the heart of the issue, the methods they employ to do violence are frankly irrelevant.
2) I bring up the racial statistics because it should be of significant concern that a demographic who only make up around 13% of London's population are responsible for over half of all the violent crime. But once again, that issue is dodged, ignored and kicked into the long grass. "It's knife crime", "it's 'youth' culture", "how can we stop the 'youth' from carrying knives and joining gangs?" Well I can tell you in my neck of the woods, there is no issue with youths and violent crime, with knives of otherwise. Almost none whatsoever. Back when I was in school (a 99.9% white school in a mostly middle class, rural town), every year we would have a police officer visit to warn us against the dangers of joining gangs, and carrying knives or guns etc etc. Why? There were literally ZERO gangs in that town, and knife, gun or violent crime in general an absolute rarity. But it seems the authorities deem it more advantageous to just waste time and resources where they aren't needed, than be accused of 'institutional racism' or 'profiling'.
I very often carry knIves in pursuit of my hobby which is fishing . Should I be banned from carrying them in case I turn feral and start talking like an afro carribean gangsta'.?
What are the ground rules going to be ? Personally .....I think banning knives is a good idea on the streets but it's how it is enforced that's the key issue here ....where do you draw the line ?
What are the ground rules going to be ? Personally .....I think banning knives is a good idea on the streets but it's how it is enforced that's the key issue here ....where do you draw the line ?
Original post by DrMikeHuntHertz
Guns also have non murdering purposes.
You missed the point, see @Wodens post,
Original post by Andrew97
You missed the point, see @Wodens post,
No, you just failed to answer the question.
Regarding @Wodens post, I'd argue that firearm offenses are treated much more seriously than knife crimes, hence the latter is an issue.
Original post by DrMikeHuntHertz
No, you just failed to answer the question.
Regarding @Wodens post, I'd argue that firearm offenses are treated much more seriously than knife crimes, hence the latter is an issue.
Regarding @Wodens post, I'd argue that firearm offenses are treated much more seriously than knife crimes, hence the latter is an issue.
There wasn’t a question.
Original post by Tawheed
There is an elephant in the room here so to speak that seems to be going ignored: youth culture.
I don't know how many people here know, but schools are increasingly places where pre-teens and teenagers are being infected with gang culture, and this even includes those who have nothing to do with gangs. The way you hear kids talk these days, the bullish verbalisation of words and accent, everyone thinking they are a 'badman' is terrifying.
When i was in school, yes, it was a place where children often coming from a deprived upbringing struggled, found peace in a group or gang in school, and engaged in terrifying bullying, physical violence, drugs and sex; it mirrored how apes act , purely by instinct , ruthless, before the inevitable development of the prefrontal cortex and maturation later in life that is the salvation of the human. However people as a whole talking , acting and conforming to gang culture despite not even being in a gang does seem to be on the increase.
I hear girls aged 11,12,13 on the bus engaged in discussing violence, utter abuse you are startled is actually directed at another human being, and in that same accent/gangster style of speaking. Some of these are Muslim, who have parents under the assumption their son or daughter is that innocent and polite person they thought they raised. Parents, you have no idea what your kids do behind you , and the effect of peer pressure.
As a caveat, I wonder what role social media has had in all of this, and the ease of accessibility of phones , improvement in technology, and the like.
I don't know how many people here know, but schools are increasingly places where pre-teens and teenagers are being infected with gang culture, and this even includes those who have nothing to do with gangs. The way you hear kids talk these days, the bullish verbalisation of words and accent, everyone thinking they are a 'badman' is terrifying.
When i was in school, yes, it was a place where children often coming from a deprived upbringing struggled, found peace in a group or gang in school, and engaged in terrifying bullying, physical violence, drugs and sex; it mirrored how apes act , purely by instinct , ruthless, before the inevitable development of the prefrontal cortex and maturation later in life that is the salvation of the human. However people as a whole talking , acting and conforming to gang culture despite not even being in a gang does seem to be on the increase.
I hear girls aged 11,12,13 on the bus engaged in discussing violence, utter abuse you are startled is actually directed at another human being, and in that same accent/gangster style of speaking. Some of these are Muslim, who have parents under the assumption their son or daughter is that innocent and polite person they thought they raised. Parents, you have no idea what your kids do behind you , and the effect of peer pressure.
As a caveat, I wonder what role social media has had in all of this, and the ease of accessibility of phones , improvement in technology, and the like.
Youth violent has away happen the murder rate per person in London was in 1990 2.2 in 100000 to 1.1 to 100000 in 2017. The murder rate has gone down per person along with violent crime rates.
I grow up in London in 1990s I was mugged 3 times in one week my 94 year old aunt was mugged twice in one year. A boy at school was murder by a gang and further education college had six reported knife attacks in one term.
Nothing has changed it just on the news more than it used to be.
Original post by zhog
There were three more stabbings today in London alone but some people would be surprised to know what the daily average is. Could have been three more deaths and at least one is critical, maybe a good day after all. We do have some serious problems in our country and the trend isn't a friendly one, even worse is the realization that nobody is at the helm either.
I think the one statistic that would scare anyone more than the reported number of stabbings or the number of murders in London are the number of unreported stabbings or incidents
Getting to grips with violent criminality and ensuring a social climate which turns a blind eye to the habitually abusive/ extremely antisocial, does not take a generation- even with the current government, opposition and London Mayor.
Just an honest commitment to three things:
1) Prioritize the enforcement of criminal law.
2) Support the police as they risk their lives to keep the streets safe.
3) Re-calibrate the scales of justice to focus upon a) punishing violent/sexual/unlawful weapon criminality, b) supporting victims, c) sending out a clear message to the convicted felon and all potential copycat offenders that prison is no fun plus crime doesn't pay.
Just an honest commitment to three things:
1) Prioritize the enforcement of criminal law.
2) Support the police as they risk their lives to keep the streets safe.
3) Re-calibrate the scales of justice to focus upon a) punishing violent/sexual/unlawful weapon criminality, b) supporting victims, c) sending out a clear message to the convicted felon and all potential copycat offenders that prison is no fun plus crime doesn't pay.
Original post by looloo2134
Youth violent has away happen the murder rate per person in London was in 1990 2.2 in 100000 to 1.1 to 100000 in 2017. The murder rate has gone down per person along with violent crime rates.
I grow up in London in 1990s I was mugged 3 times in one week my 94 year old aunt was mugged twice in one year. A boy at school was murder by a gang and further education college had six reported knife attacks in one term.
Nothing has changed it just on the news more than it used to be.
I grow up in London in 1990s I was mugged 3 times in one week my 94 year old aunt was mugged twice in one year. A boy at school was murder by a gang and further education college had six reported knife attacks in one term.
Nothing has changed it just on the news more than it used to be.
It's a pity you hadn't grown up in the 1960s in a average sized shire town somewhere north of Watford and then you might appreciate how broken a society and accepting we have become . What you have just disclosed there is appalling . The culture you and others have described is not English or British ....
What have we become .....I'll tell you ...uncivilised savages .
No one I know ....friends or extended family has ever been attacked in any way and we thank god we don't live anywhere in the south east ..especially London .
That's not a normal life. ...that's existing .
Original post by Johnny English
I very often carry knIves in pursuit of my hobby which is fishing . Should I be banned from carrying them in case I turn feral and start talking like an afro carribean gangsta'.?
What are the ground rules going to be ? Personally .....I think banning knives is a good idea on the streets but it's how it is enforced that's the key issue here ....where do you draw the line ?
What are the ground rules going to be ? Personally .....I think banning knives is a good idea on the streets but it's how it is enforced that's the key issue here ....where do you draw the line ?
I think there is a good case to be made for London and other cities having their own legislative control over these matters. I can see the logic in a city or large town having much stricter laws over the possession and carrying of knives and such, large numbers of people crammed into a relatively small area always creates a higher potential for crime and conflict, keeping weapons out of that mix as far as reasonably possible is sensible. But I see little logic in such laws applying equally to say, the wilds of Scotland or some sparsely populated, rural community where there will be little to no violent crime but where farmers, fishermen, hunters or general outdoorsy types may well like to carry knives for utilitarian purposes.
Original post by londonmyst
Getting to grips with violent criminality and ensuring a social climate which turns a blind eye to the habitually abusive/ extremely antisocial, does not take a generation- even with the current government, opposition and London Mayor.
Just an honest commitment to three things:
1) Prioritize the enforcement of criminal law.
2) Support the police as they risk their lives to keep the streets safe.
3) Re-calibrate the scales of justice to focus upon a) punishing violent/sexual/unlawful weapon criminality, b) supporting victims, c) sending out a clear message to the convicted felon and all potential copycat offenders that prison is no fun plus crime doesn't pay.
Just an honest commitment to three things:
1) Prioritize the enforcement of criminal law.
2) Support the police as they risk their lives to keep the streets safe.
3) Re-calibrate the scales of justice to focus upon a) punishing violent/sexual/unlawful weapon criminality, b) supporting victims, c) sending out a clear message to the convicted felon and all potential copycat offenders that prison is no fun plus crime doesn't pay.
Solving this issue doesn't take a generation, but it isn't an overnight solution either. The three things you have listed all focus on a quick solution, a top down approach that fails to address any of the key issues at their roots. The truth is, most of these murders are gang related - the youth of today have truly lost their minds and they do not fear serving time in jail nor care for any of the repercussions of their actions. You can enforce a police state and give them a 100 year sentence for carrying a knife and they would still engage in this type of senseless behaviour. Most of the young gang members of today have become normalised to carrying a weapon and fatally injuring/taking someones life.
Spend a day walking around some of the roughest estates of South London (where many of the Capital's homicides have occured) and you'll see how there is a clear lack of opportunity for some of these youths - this is made worse by the fact that they don't have any father figures or parental enforcement in their homes. It is way too easy for them to get sucked into a gang. At the end of the day, you can never get rid of the gang members that reside in these estates/areas - it is simply just everywhere. The drill music/social media culture hasn't helped this cause either, but that's another story
Original post by scientific222
Solving this issue doesn't take a generation, but it isn't an overnight solution either. The three things you have listed all focus on a quick solution, a top down approach that fails to address any of the key issues at their roots. The truth is, most of these murders are gang related - the youth of today have truly lost their minds and they do not fear serving time in jail nor care for any of the repercussions of their actions. You can enforce a police state and give them a 100 year sentence for carrying a knife and they would still engage in this type of senseless behaviour. Most of the young gang members of today have become normalised to carrying a weapon and fatally injuring/taking someones life.
Spend a day walking around some of the roughest estates of South London (where many of the Capital's homicides have occured) and you'll see how there is a clear lack of opportunity for some of these youths - this is made worse by the fact that they don't have any father figures or parental enforcement in their homes. It is way too easy for them to get sucked into a gang. At the end of the day, you can never get rid of the gang members that reside in these estates/areas - it is simply just everywhere. The drill music/social media culture hasn't helped this cause either, but that's another story
Spend a day walking around some of the roughest estates of South London (where many of the Capital's homicides have occured) and you'll see how there is a clear lack of opportunity for some of these youths - this is made worse by the fact that they don't have any father figures or parental enforcement in their homes. It is way too easy for them to get sucked into a gang. At the end of the day, you can never get rid of the gang members that reside in these estates/areas - it is simply just everywhere. The drill music/social media culture hasn't helped this cause either, but that's another story
I have friends living in the most high crime sink estates mostly Willow Tree Lane, Peabody, Cambridge Road, Alton and Ashburton.
Most had low income teenage mothers, no father or a professional male role model- none of them have joined gangs or got criminal records.
I've been going to the criminal courts and legal advice centres since I was a child, my mother gives out free legal advice and character references to nearly every habitual criminal that asks.
The first two questions most young thugs ask legal advisers are: will I go to jail if I'm caught with a knife and will I get longer than two years if I stab someone who dies.
Tells you what most of them consider deterrents- jail and longer sentences.
Of course the gang leaders and occasional psychos don't care about prison. They view it as a means of street cred or occupational hazard. But most youths are not like that, even gang members.
I once met a drug dealing gang elder in his 30s who was jailed for attacking a friend with a machete, the friend had stolen a large amount of drugs and cash.
Two years into his GBH sentence, he had a temper tantrum and started ranting how he hated not being able to see his kids for years, how should have been out of jail by now and next time he wouldn't leave either a body to find or witnesses to talk.
His gang was notorious and he had no remorse or desire to be law abiding. But he was desperate to avoid another long prison sentence because incarceration was inconvenient to him.
That sentence of 4 months handed out to the youth that stabbed a police officer and nearly killed his dog with a 10inch hunting knife in a public place. Sent out a bad message to vile felons thinking of attacking the police with illegal weapons, worse message to UK police officers.
Original post by londonmyst
I have friends living in the most high crime sink estates mostly Willow Tree Lane, Peabody, Cambridge Road, Alton and Ashburton.
Most had low income teenage mothers, no father or a professional male role model- none of them have joined gangs or got criminal records.
Most had low income teenage mothers, no father or a professional male role model- none of them have joined gangs or got criminal records.
Being raised in a low-income, single parent household results in a child being significantly more likely to commit crime. This is a fact. Obviously not everyone turns to crime, so citing anecdotal examples won't really prove a whole lot.
African and Afro-Caribbean children grow up in single parent households at very high rates and are a demographic with a hugely disproportionate involvement in crime in London - especially violent crime. So go figure.
Original post by Dandaman1
Being raised in a low-income, single parent household results in a child being significantly more likely to commit crime. This is a fact. Obviously not everyone turns to crime, so citing anecdotal examples won't really prove a whole lot.
African and Afro-Caribbean children grow up in single parent households at very high rates and are a demographic with a hugely disproportionate involvement in crime in London - especially violent crime. So go figure.
African and Afro-Caribbean children grow up in single parent households at very high rates and are a demographic with a hugely disproportionate involvement in crime in London - especially violent crime. So go figure.
The fixation with singling out a few high profile violent gangs based on ethnic heritage of members is so unhelpful and misleading.
The most relevant considerations are sink estates, culture of antisocial behavior and often families with multiple generations of drug dealers or thugs- from all races.
The gangs tend to be just as bad as each other regardless of ancestral heritage; all very violent, culture of weapons possession, drug dealing and recruiting based on postcode locality and family ties.
Some are just a lot more brazen when it comes to armed attacking in public places during broad daylight, so attract more publicity and convictions amongst their membership than the rest.
Parental Responisibility:
I am an Afro-Carribean male.
I grew up in a low-income household
I grew up entirely in a single parent household
Although my home wasn't in a particularly "bad" area, most of my years were spent in a "bad" area because there was where tha community was at.
Experience hella racial profiling which made first impressions twice as hard.
Listened to rap music and have been watching 'violent' shows, anime and games since I was 5.
Why am i not in a gang?
Why is it that the worst crime i've ever committed is using youtube to mp3?
Because my mother isn't a lazy piece of sh!t.
If you KNOW you are raising your child in a rough area, and you have the audacity to blame other youth influences or "ends" for your child's criminal behavior...
You are a scumbag.
I am an Afro-Carribean male.
I grew up in a low-income household
I grew up entirely in a single parent household
Although my home wasn't in a particularly "bad" area, most of my years were spent in a "bad" area because there was where tha community was at.
Experience hella racial profiling which made first impressions twice as hard.
Listened to rap music and have been watching 'violent' shows, anime and games since I was 5.
Why am i not in a gang?
Why is it that the worst crime i've ever committed is using youtube to mp3?
Because my mother isn't a lazy piece of sh!t.
If you KNOW you are raising your child in a rough area, and you have the audacity to blame other youth influences or "ends" for your child's criminal behavior...
You are a scumbag.
Original post by Zasty
Parental Responisibility:
I am an Afro-Carribean male.
I grew up in a low-income household
I grew up entirely in a single parent household
Although my home wasn't in a particularly "bad" area, most of my years were spent in a "bad" area because there was where tha community was at.
Experience hella racial profiling which made first impressions twice as hard.
Listened to rap music and have been watching 'violent' shows, anime and games since I was 5.
Why am i not in a gang?
Why is it that the worst crime i've ever committed is using youtube to mp3?
Because my mother isn't a lazy piece of sh!t.
If you KNOW you are raising your child in a rough area, and you have the audacity to blame other youth influences or "ends" for your child's criminal behavior...
You are a scumbag.
I am an Afro-Carribean male.
I grew up in a low-income household
I grew up entirely in a single parent household
Although my home wasn't in a particularly "bad" area, most of my years were spent in a "bad" area because there was where tha community was at.
Experience hella racial profiling which made first impressions twice as hard.
Listened to rap music and have been watching 'violent' shows, anime and games since I was 5.
Why am i not in a gang?
Why is it that the worst crime i've ever committed is using youtube to mp3?
Because my mother isn't a lazy piece of sh!t.
If you KNOW you are raising your child in a rough area, and you have the audacity to blame other youth influences or "ends" for your child's criminal behavior...
You are a scumbag.
I agree with your heavy emphasis upon personal and parental responsibility for people of all backgrounds.
My father grew up in a very rough part of manchester as a teenager without parents in the 1960, his best friend too and many of my friends were brought up by single teenage mothers in sink estates in london. None of them joined gangs or got involved with any criminal activity.
Many low income single parents have severe disabilities, long term illnesses or very poor mental health that leaves them all but incapable of taking basic care of themselves- let alone properly parenting their children.
Single mothers/other guardians in these circumstances are not lazy obnoxious or trouble makers.
They just need assistance from the government, carer support and maybe help from charity or youth workers to ensure a reasonably safe environment for their families.
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