I'm sick of entitled junior doctors Watch

MrsSheldonCooper
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#61
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#61
(Original post by intelligent con)
Why should they go on strikes when MY taxes pay for them. Wow they're pays being cut so they won't be able to afford a second ferrari boo hoo. Meanwhile the poor refugees in calais are being subject to police and far right brutality. They need to get some perspective and stop their whinging and slowing down appointments in MY hospitals.
You say in your "about me" section that you love outsmarting people.

There's nothing smart about making a statement and not backing it up with facts and not even replying to people who challenge what you said.

So much for intelligent sweetheart.
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by Plagioclase)
You can play around with the terminology as much as you want but an ever increasing amount of public money is going to private contractors to perform services that would have once been covered by the NHS itself (and of course, this isn't just the case in the NHS, it's happened and happening to many other public services too). In some respects this is even worse than actual privatisation because these companies can rely on massive government grants and often deliver substandard services with price efficiency far below the efficiency of the service when it was publicly run. The road we are going down is undeniably the erosion of public institutions. The NHS might not have been explicitly sold off yet but it is no longer the public institution it used to be.
Efficiency citations

Also I'm pretty sure a privately run procedure can be less efficient than the publicly run equivalent if there was no public equivalent, we get procedures being outsourced because it is simply the most economically viable way of doing it.

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DiddyDec
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(Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
It's logical sweetheart.

The more efficient a healthcare service and its workers (i.e. doctors and other staff), the lower mortality rates in a country.


Duh.
You said they are the ONLY reason we are alive.

I have never been to a hospital.

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Maid Marian
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Oh be quiet, fool. This happens with more than one profession, and for one reason only - the Government. They are the people you should be angry with.
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MrsSheldonCooper
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
You said they are the ONLY reason we are alive.

I have never been to a hospital.

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You ever had a cold or flu or period pains?

You've probably taken medicine for it.


And as for never going into a hospital, you probably went to get your jabs there when you were a baby, which was also probably done by someone with medical training.
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neal95
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They're really starting to rile me up and will go the way of the unions at some point. Striking once or twice, okay you've got the public onside. All this nonsense though, it reeks of entitlement. Bring back the 1950s family doctor model!!!! They are still keeping up this whole facade of "but it's not about the pay"! Have some front, we will respect you more for it, there's nothing wrong with wanting more money. They should take a leaf out of their cousin the dentists book, at least their honest about their paper chase
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Etomidate
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(Original post by apronedsamurai)
Appreciate that you are really busy with work etc, and it is a genuine shame that the media IS distorting things. Could you maybe give us a brief synopsis, if only to give us a more clearer understanding?Always nice to have the facts, not just dogma (I speak of the media in that regard).

(please. And small words. I'm very dim. )
I've tried to do this in previous posts, but the general points are these:

1. The safeguards that prevent excessive hours being worked are being diluted and becoming less independent (i.e. operated by people who have a vested interest in getting the most hours out of doctors).

2. The weekend mortality statistics are misleading and actually span Friday to Monday and show that Wednesday has the highest in-hospital mortality. The authors specifically state that it would be rash and misleading to assume these mortality rates are avoidable. Despite this, Hunt persistently quotes a "higher mortality rate on weekends".

3. The government is trying to push a 7 day ELECTIVE service. So if you have a planned toenail operation, it can be done on a sunday evening. This has not been costed or planned adequately. More importantly, WE BARELY HAVE THE STAFF TO COVER A FIVE DAY ELECTIVE SERVICE. Frequently, doctors are expected to pick up the work load of unfilled posts. If you extend weekend work, you will ultimately have to take staff from the week.

4. The contract disadvantages working parents. If they are expected to work more unsocial hours, they will have to face increased expenditure on child care (often short notice). Mr Hunt's solution to this is to use "informal unpaid childcare".

5. This contract IS a paycut. Normal working hours are being extended, reducing the out-of-hours premium that a large part of our income is generated from. This has been blurred over by a introducing a temporary "pay protection" that fixes the figures. Unfortunately the new cohort of doctors will not receive this and it will be lost anyway after three years.

6. The new contract contains terms that give the government absolute power to amend the conditions at any point they wish.

7. The DoH has generated a number of 'example rotas'. These are bizarre and erratic. Some even consider time sleeping after a night shift "time off". Er, no. That's time that I'm physiologically required to sleep.

8. The DoH has frequently insinuated that we do not provide a 7 day service. I work nights. I've worked almost 1 in 2 weekends over the last 4 months. WE ALREADY PROVIDE A SEVEN DAY NHS. We just don't do toenail operations on a sunday night, because we all have better things to be doing, like staffing A&E or spending time with our families. Similarly, patients report the same, with trial GP sunday appointments having a significantly higher rate of non-attendance.

I could go on.
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neal95
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#68
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I feel sorry for Tory parents who have a social justice warrior loony left voting junior doctor as their legal issue
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DiddyDec
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#69
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(Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
You ever had a cold or flu or period pains?

You've probably taken medicine for it.


And as for never going into a hospital, you probably went to get your jabs there when you were a baby, which was also probably done by someone with medical training.
Never had any of the above, and I don't take medicine for a cold.

They were done by a nurse in a local surgery. Not a junior doctor.

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User947387
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(Original post by Etomidate)
I've tried to do this in previous posts, but the general points are these:

1. The safeguards that prevent excessive hours being worked are being diluted and becoming less independent (i.e. operated by people who have a vested interest in getting the most hours out of doctors).

2. The weekend mortality statistics are misleading and actually span Friday to Monday and show that Wednesday has the highest in-hospital mortality. The authors specifically state that it would be rash and misleading to assume these mortality rates are avoidable. Despite this, Hunt persistently quotes a "higher mortality rate on weekends".

3. The government is trying to push a 7 day ELECTIVE service. So if you have a planned toenail operation, it can be done on a sunday evening. This has not been costed or planned adequately. More importantly, WE BARELY HAVE THE STAFF TO COVER A FIVE DAY ELECTIVE SERVICE. Frequently, doctors are expected to pick up the work load of unfilled posts. If you extend weekend work, you will ultimately have to take staff from the week.

4. The contract disadvantages working parents. If they are expected to work more unsocial hours, they will have to face increased expenditure on child care (often short notice). Mr Hunt's solution to this is to use "informal unpaid childcare".

5. This contract IS a paycut. Normal working hours are being extended, reducing the out-of-hours premium that a large part of our income is generated from. This has been blurred over by a introducing a temporary "pay protection" that fixes the figures. Unfortunately the new cohort of doctors will not receive this and it will be lost anyway after three years.

6. The new contract contains terms that give the government absolute power to amend the conditions at any point they wish.

7. The DoH has generated a number of 'example rotas'. These are bizarre and erratic. Some even consider time sleeping after a night shift "time off". Er, no. That's time that I'm physiologically required to sleep.

8. The DoH has frequently insinuated that we do not provide a 7 day service. I work nights. I've worked almost 1 in 2 weekends over the last 4 months. WE ALREADY PROVIDE A SEVEN DAY NHS. We just don't do toenail operations on a sunday night, because we all have better things to be doing, like staffing A&E or spending time with our families. Similarly, patients report the same, with trial GP sunday appointments having a significantly higher rate of non-attendance.

I could go on.
Thank you very much.
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Etomidate
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#71
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(Original post by neal95)
Bring back the 1950s family doctor model!!!!
Yeeeeeahhhhhh, back when the best management of a heart attack was bedrest, nobody knew what DNA was and doctors had about 15 medicines they could prescribe.

But I agree. I would love free training, free accommodation, a massive final pension, unquestioned paternal authority, free on-call rooms with free meals and could buy a house for £9000.
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Egirl127
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#72
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I want to become a doctor. And while i think, maybe, yea, they shouldn't have gone on strkie, did anybody think how hard it was for them? Working long hours, with little thanks? Doctors, honestly, are the reason why many of us are still here today. Jesus, have a little gratitude.
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BeastOfSyracuse
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#73
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(Original post by intelligent con)
I'm sick of entitled junior doctors.
Why should they go on strikes when MY taxes pay for them.
And I'm sick of self-entitled little people who are barely out of short pants moaning about trade unions as if they have anything resembling an understanding of the real world of industrial relations, workplace terms and conditions or even just a basic understanding of what it's like to have a family, children to support, a mortgage etc

Your position is like saying, "I pay my builder, therefore he should always work for the amount I first paid him and he should never be able to dispute or renegotiate that amount at any point in the future".

I mean, do you even pay taxes other than VAT? Unless you didn't notice, doctors also pay tax. And it's likely they pay a hell of a lot more than you. Likelihood might even be that their taxes subsidise you.
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User947387
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#74
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(Original post by Etomidate)
Yeeeeeahhhhhh, back when the best management of a heart attack was bedrest, nobody knew what DNA was and doctors had about 15 medicines they could prescribe.

But I agree. I would love free training, free accommodation, a massive final pension, unquestioned paternal authority, free on-call rooms with free meals and could buy a house for £9000.
aka, the good old days
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User947387
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#75
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(Original post by Egirl127)
I want to become a doctor. And while i think, maybe, yea, they shouldn't have gone on strkie, did anybody think how hard it was for them? Working long hours, with little thanks? Doctors, honestly, are the reason why many of us are still here today. Jesus, have a little gratitude.
Pretty sure Jesus IS grateful to the doctors.
It is just Mr Hunt who isn't
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neal95
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These doctors need to understand that as public sector workers, their rate of pay is determined by the government. Not happy about it? Then go to the private sector like most people and earn more. They need to understand the fact that it's an democratically elected government that has declared that doctors will have their overtime reduced but pay increased, and just get on with it. They will be consultants in due course and can crack on with their private work then. You used to go into medicine for the desire to help patients, not the kudos and monetary aspect
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MrsSheldonCooper
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Never had any of the above, and I don't take medicine for a cold.

They were done by a nurse in a local surgery. Not a junior doctor.

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Hence why I said someone with medical training. If it wasn't for that, you'd be prone to more dangerous diseases.
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BeastOfSyracuse
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#78
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(Original post by Etomidate)
X
Excellent posts, thanks for taking the time to outline it to us. I particularly find the idea that the government proposes they can unilaterally amend the contract at will to be offensive and dictatorial. I have friends who are junior doctors (or more like junior junior doctors lol) who work insane hours; hours that make friends at top law firms look like a picnic.

As you say, we already have a seven-day NHS. If you go to a hospital on a weekend, you will be treated. But the idea that simply working as a doctor you'll never be entitled to a normal life, never see your children, etc... it's madness.

I'd be interested to know if you have any ideas about how you would change the current contract to make it better (or not contract changes, changes to staffing, resources etc)

Oh and I thought I'd add this; you know in America how when they find out someone is a soldier or a veteran, they say "Thank you for your service"? Well, thank you for your service. The NHS is one of the best things about this country (and I'm not some wide-eyed cloying leftist, I come from ,a country which does have universal healthcare and it's still nowhere near as good as the NHS). I've always been very well treated by the NHS
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DiddyDec
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#79
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(Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
Hence why I said someone with medical training. If it wasn't for that, you'd be prone to more dangerous diseases.
The topic at hand is junior doctors, the nurses aren't on strike. Although any moron can administer a jab.

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Mutmit287
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(Original post by apronedsamurai)
Appreciate that you are really busy with work etc, and it is a genuine shame that the media IS distorting things. Could you maybe give us a brief synopsis, if only to give us a more clearer understanding?Always nice to have the facts, not just dogma (I speak of the media in that regard).

(please. And small words. I'm very dim. )
If Im honest I am only a first year medical student, the info I have got from the juniors is from my friend at St Georges London who is an F1 currently.
she said:
- although basic pay will rise, banding will cease meaning that juniors who do more overtime and work longer hours to support our patients and our NHS will be worse off (which is not a great moral booster). also as there is no alternative this could see a rise in doctors working unsafe hours.
- removal of the GP training supplement could see a significant decrease in pay to GPs in comparison to their colleagues in other specialities. as well all know GPs are the foundation of the NHS and this could push many people away from the specialism. (just to put this into perspective I went into medicine hoping to become a GP but if this contract goes ahead I will seriously consider against it).
- non-resident on call pay could be drastically decreased meaning the doctors will be working longer hours for much less once again.
- pay only rises when you move to the next stage of training rather than every year with experience. this could seriously dissadvantage people needing to take time out of the profession for personal reasons (e.g. maternity leave) as their training is on hold.
- for the first 5 years as a junior annual leave is capped at 25 days (even in retail I got 30 days), and there has been no action to stopping fixed leave (where leave for each individual is allocated with no say by the individual as to which dates they can have off).
- junior doctors now will be fully reimbursed for any expenses with no upper limits being set.
- CHANGE IN THE STANDARD WORKING HOURS from 60 to 90 hours per week. meaning doctors who work unsocial hours will now get less pay compared to before. this could lead to a lack of moral when working on these new standard hour shifts still classed as unsocial.

this is what I know, other than that I just follow news stories.

but what people who arent in the medical profession have to realise is how god damn hard doctors work day in day out to save lives. I mean I would love to see some of you lot work 5 hours overtime in a stressful A&E department because a critically ill patient needs you. remember doctors are PEOPLE! they have families and need sleep and food just like everyone else. your overworking the skilled people who are capable and more than willing to save your lives, and your pushing them out of the profession by changing their contracts and not supporting their needs. Many people say they have been put off studying medicine due to the contract changes, and I know myself I am concerned whether medicine will be the supportive career and the fulfilling career it was when I applied just over a year ago to medical school!

as for OUR NHS, support the doctors standing up to save the NHS, after they have gone after the doctors they will come for nurses and then the NHS itself. were living in fear of loosing one of our countries best assets, yet people have the nerve to call out junior doctors saying they are money grabbing, Ii would love for all of your sat in your chairs at home on your day off saying that to train in medical school for 5/6 years (Its hard enough to get in mind) and then enter a profession where your run off your feet, and constantly overworked because of staff shortages, there is never a slow day in the NHS, patients never stop coming. I dare you to try before you call anyone out!
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