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Should Martial Arts and Self Defence be taught at schools?
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Martial arts were developed for use in combat, using martial arts training on the streets isnt self defence its just brawling. Sorry I didn't make that very clear.
methinks a good idea, teaches indpendece, control, courage etc.. but wouldn't it just educate the bullies on better techniques?
I don't think I would feel safer if that was the case because I'd be crap at it whereas someone attacking me might be better at attacking me from having practised self defence.
If your trapped and you have absolutly no other choice then using enough force to get yourself into a position where you can escape, thats fine.
However what I meant was, that most people perceive the threat as greater than it actually is, and are willing to use their training when they could just leg it. But people don't want to do that, many like the idea that they "defended them selfs from a group of punks", when really they just got in a fight for a stupid reason.
Im not trying to make martial artists to be thugs, far from it, its just that some people do martial arts to learn how to defend themselves by force rather than acting in a more calm and sensible manor and avoiding the situation altogether.
However what I meant was, that most people perceive the threat as greater than it actually is, and are willing to use their training when they could just leg it. But people don't want to do that, many like the idea that they "defended them selfs from a group of punks", when really they just got in a fight for a stupid reason.
Im not trying to make martial artists to be thugs, far from it, its just that some people do martial arts to learn how to defend themselves by force rather than acting in a more calm and sensible manor and avoiding the situation altogether.
By most people I meant the general public, but I think you underestimate how many tards there are that do a martial art with the intention of getting into a fight.
Most will try to get out of a situation using the least force possible.
Whether that means walking away, or flooring someone and walking away, is another issue.
Take this for instance, a man was pushing another man in a packed club. Started pushing him so on so forth. The man being pushed put the other one in a subtle wrist lock, pushed him to the floor, and moved away.
Neither was really hurt, one felt pain for about 5 seconds? One felt no pain.
Is this what you consider brawling?
The martial art used was aikido in-case you're wondering.
No. What I was calling brawling was getting into a fight under the pretence of self defence.
Doing that in a club to someone who is drunk is more likely to provoke further conflict than resolve it. Could they not just rise upove it and walk away.
Also to keep this on topic I feel that bringing back boxing into secondary schools would be a very good idea.
Most will try to get out of a situation using the least force possible.
Whether that means walking away, or flooring someone and walking away, is another issue.
Take this for instance, a man was pushing another man in a packed club. Started pushing him so on so forth. The man being pushed put the other one in a subtle wrist lock, pushed him to the floor, and moved away.
Neither was really hurt, one felt pain for about 5 seconds? One felt no pain.
Is this what you consider brawling?
The martial art used was aikido in-case you're wondering.
No. What I was calling brawling was getting into a fight under the pretence of self defence.
Doing that in a club to someone who is drunk is more likely to provoke further conflict than resolve it. Could they not just rise upove it and walk away.
Also to keep this on topic I feel that bringing back boxing into secondary schools would be a very good idea.
Unfortuately there are places that dont really know what they are doing and are happy to tell their students anything so long as they get some money. Its sad but true.
I studied self defence rather than a traditional martial art, for about 4 years.
I studied self defence rather than a traditional martial art, for about 4 years.
bad idea imo, because martial arts in schools will most likely be very watered down, there won't be enough hours of teaching in order for it to really be learned, the pupils most likely won't undergo full contact sparring etc, as a result the kids will get a false sense of their abilities and when they actually do get in a fight they may think they can fight but the reality is that their "skills" are poor. I've seen it happen all the time to people who train tradition martial arts like tae kwon do at mcdojos and then think they're anderson silva and think they can batter anyone, they get in a streetfight and end up getting battered or stabbed.
theBOON
Lol no.
That's a stupid way to deal with the problem. Encouraging other to fight is your stupid. Besides wouldn't both know how to defend themselves then. What someone usually needs is a boost of courage and self esteem to find a way to quiet the bully.
Also it would be great if in early school years supervision on students would be enforced so as to educate the bullies.
That's a stupid way to deal with the problem. Encouraging other to fight is your stupid. Besides wouldn't both know how to defend themselves then. What someone usually needs is a boost of courage and self esteem to find a way to quiet the bully.
Also it would be great if in early school years supervision on students would be enforced so as to educate the bullies.
Do you realise the stupidity of what you wrote?
If both people know how to defend themselves, it will reduce the chance of getting attacked. Bullies target the weak. Also, its not about fighting, its about self-defence.
Also, i agree with the views expressed in the first post. This should be encouraged a lot, people should stup petitions and stuff, not that it'll make a difference but i really think this is a good idea.
The only down side to it is that, I'll feel left out because I'm not in school anymore.
But knowing the our current gov., they'll turn it into some weak ass poncy bum tig kind of thing.
paella
No. And no. Change leads to paranoia, and paranoia leads to violent escalation. Example: every mugger knows that their victim will most likely be trained in a martial art. So, they'll either carry a weapon, use a weapon, or just knock the person out from behind before mugging them. Or use lots of people. And beat them up. Secondly, it's very easy to knock someone out if practicing a martial art. Its also very easy for students to get drunk and disorderly. More fights will end in knockouts/bad injuries. Sounds like a terrible idea.
Generally, trying to be hard, or harder than anyone who's going to be attacking you won't work. If they're attacking you, they're already prepared to go further than you in a physical situation. This will only mean you will come off worse.
Remember, if someone's attacking you, you have more to loose than they do. You cannot win.
No. And no. Change leads to paranoia, and paranoia leads to violent escalation. Example: every mugger knows that their victim will most likely be trained in a martial art. So, they'll either carry a weapon, use a weapon, or just knock the person out from behind before mugging them. Or use lots of people. And beat them up. Secondly, it's very easy to knock someone out if practicing a martial art. Its also very easy for students to get drunk and disorderly. More fights will end in knockouts/bad injuries. Sounds like a terrible idea.
Generally, trying to be hard, or harder than anyone who's going to be attacking you won't work. If they're attacking you, they're already prepared to go further than you in a physical situation. This will only mean you will come off worse.
Remember, if someone's attacking you, you have more to loose than they do. You cannot win.
On the first point, martial arts teaches self-discipline, healthy living etc. If anything it will encourage less drinking and might help towards changing attitudes in this country towards drinking. Lots of sport (in whatever form), needs to be encouraged to the kids so they dont end up like us i.e. finding it appealing to be intoxicated at every oppurtunity. Obviously, it will take a lot more than that and I think many other factors contribute to this attitude, but it would be a step in the right direction.
Secondly, you have a point to an extent, but muggings wont stop/increase due to this. Also, there is nothing really to suggest that they WILL get worse, but obviously they could get more violent if Muggers feel that they need to use weapons because their victims are more able to defend themselves.
At the same time though, I think muggins which involve weapons usually are less violent than muggings that don't - might sound stupid on the face of it, but if your attacker threatens to use a weapon and shows you it - you are more likely to hand over your money/wallet etc. On the otheer hand, if your mugger isn't carrying a weapon, he will most likely attack you from the off to shake you up. Otherwise, lots of people would just put scary faces on and go round asking for people's wallets?
Also your last point about always being worse off is rubbish. You are suggesting that everybody should just be passive and not defend ourselves or learn to defend ourselves. Its stupidity. We need to encourage self defense and less reliance on the police.
It is on these kinds of issues where the Americans are much better than us Brits/Europeans.
I'm not sure. I wouldn't abuse it if I were taught it but not every kid is like that.
There will always be the few that will try and go Jackie Chan on some kids arse and end up putting themselves through a window.
There will always be the few that will try and go Jackie Chan on some kids arse and end up putting themselves through a window.
anonymouz
If both people know how to defend themselves, it will reduce the chance of getting attacked. Bullies target the weak. Also, its not about fighting, its about self-defence.
Exactly why it needs to be taught as young as possible, as most martial arts are undertaken anyway.
anonymouz
Also, i agree with the views expressed in the first post. This should be encouraged a lot, people should stup petitions and stuff, not that it'll make a difference but i really think this is a good idea.
The only down side to it is that, I'll feel left out because I'm not in school anymore.
But knowing the our current gov., they'll turn it into some weak ass poncy bum tig kind of thing.
The only down side to it is that, I'll feel left out because I'm not in school anymore.
But knowing the our current gov., they'll turn it into some weak ass poncy bum tig kind of thing.
I don't know the exact figures, but the government spends a lot of money on anti-bullying campaigns and support workers for bullied children. All of this money and schools really aren't better off, just more controlled and restricted.
I think that the joy of martial arts is that it'd both keep current dojos and gyms in business and provide more jobs to those that are qualified. It'd also be extremely rewarding to those that are talented within various martial arts as it'd allow them to share their own beliefs and traditions. Obviously as far as sports are concerned team sports are very important, but other than tennis there is little in the curriculum that allows students to develop themselves as people through learning how to cope with the harsh realities of life. There are very few subjects that can teach local and ancient history, tactical awareness, philosophy and physics and still be fun.
Merely as a self-defence lesson it'd teach kids how to defend themselves if someone were to attack them, without even injuring them. Also, many martial arts can teach people how to defend against multiple attackers and those with weapons. If the average school kid were capable of diffusing a situation involving multiple bullies or someone with a chair/bat/bar, even if it involves simply dodging and running, then that alone would be the best deterrent against bullying in school.
Just to get a taste of what I'm talking about, check out Mind, Body and Kick Ass Moves on YouTube. I think it's one of the most under-rated shows on TV and I hope more of it is made because some of the stuff shown on there defies western thinking and logic.
you dont need to teach physical self defence to help tackle bullying.
Bullying is all about psychology. you will have far better effect teaching the students assertiveness skills and confidence type skills. Doesnt need to be physical at all.
You look underneath the physical aspects of some bullying and its all emotional abuse at the core and about the abuser being in power. Most bullying doesnt usually start with a kicking but with emotional abuse that works up to it, be it use of eye contact, name calling, practical jokes, setting the victim up etc all before it becomes physical violence.
I think the bigger problem is the way schools deal with bullies, or dont deal with them as the case is all too often!!! The youth charity i volunteer at has had loads of people come in being bullied and in the end the schools find it easier to move the victim rather than tackle the bully, which in my opinion is fundamentally wrong!
Its actually quite hard to get expelled permenantly from a school for bullying these days!! It doesnt send the right message to the bullys as they know they can get away with it.
Some schools even put the misbehavers in seperate class's and reward the little brats for turning up etc!!!!
I remember visiting a guy in hospital and in his school up in liverpool all the bad behaved kids were not excluded or expelled but moved to a seperate unit where they only studied for 3 GCSEs and spent the rest of the time doing "practical skills" outdoor aventurous training, mountain biking, working on cars etc!!!! they were in a class room for 2 days a week!! the rest was fun stuff supposedly meant to "rehabilitate" them through learning team work, self esteem, confidence etc under the theory that a lot of bullys and naughty kids are actually have a chronic low self esteem etc so overcompensate with disruptive/violent behaviour as a defence mechanism.
Although that may well be a sound psychological theory, it doesnt fulfill the need for punnishment of the abuser, important both to the abuser and victim. The victim needs to see the abuser is being punnished as it restores confidence in system and aids recovery, and the abuser needs to be punnished as the child needs to understand the consequences of thier actions.
ALL children push boundarys, they then get into trouble if they get caught and as they grow up they learn to respect boundarys as there is a negative consequence to breaking them. Boundarys translate into laws and as the child becomes an adult they learn to behave acceptably.
If theres no consequence to breaking these boundarys then, funnily enough, the kids wont respect those boundarys and keep breaking them because they want to. Sadly this translates into our ineffective legal system and the kids then realise no one can touch them and we end up in the mess of ASBO teens and antisocial behaviour, mainly by youths, that we have now.
removing the victim of bullying is massively wrong (regardless of cost to the school mopping up bullys) as it sends all the wrong signals to the victim who will have thier education severely disrupted, confidence and esteem crushed even more as they will feel at blame for being bullied and feel they are being punished. Otherwise the schools are basically sending a message that the rights of a few bullys are greater than the rights of the victim!!
Bullying is all about psychology. you will have far better effect teaching the students assertiveness skills and confidence type skills. Doesnt need to be physical at all.
You look underneath the physical aspects of some bullying and its all emotional abuse at the core and about the abuser being in power. Most bullying doesnt usually start with a kicking but with emotional abuse that works up to it, be it use of eye contact, name calling, practical jokes, setting the victim up etc all before it becomes physical violence.
I think the bigger problem is the way schools deal with bullies, or dont deal with them as the case is all too often!!! The youth charity i volunteer at has had loads of people come in being bullied and in the end the schools find it easier to move the victim rather than tackle the bully, which in my opinion is fundamentally wrong!
Its actually quite hard to get expelled permenantly from a school for bullying these days!! It doesnt send the right message to the bullys as they know they can get away with it.
Some schools even put the misbehavers in seperate class's and reward the little brats for turning up etc!!!!
I remember visiting a guy in hospital and in his school up in liverpool all the bad behaved kids were not excluded or expelled but moved to a seperate unit where they only studied for 3 GCSEs and spent the rest of the time doing "practical skills" outdoor aventurous training, mountain biking, working on cars etc!!!! they were in a class room for 2 days a week!! the rest was fun stuff supposedly meant to "rehabilitate" them through learning team work, self esteem, confidence etc under the theory that a lot of bullys and naughty kids are actually have a chronic low self esteem etc so overcompensate with disruptive/violent behaviour as a defence mechanism.
Although that may well be a sound psychological theory, it doesnt fulfill the need for punnishment of the abuser, important both to the abuser and victim. The victim needs to see the abuser is being punnished as it restores confidence in system and aids recovery, and the abuser needs to be punnished as the child needs to understand the consequences of thier actions.
ALL children push boundarys, they then get into trouble if they get caught and as they grow up they learn to respect boundarys as there is a negative consequence to breaking them. Boundarys translate into laws and as the child becomes an adult they learn to behave acceptably.
If theres no consequence to breaking these boundarys then, funnily enough, the kids wont respect those boundarys and keep breaking them because they want to. Sadly this translates into our ineffective legal system and the kids then realise no one can touch them and we end up in the mess of ASBO teens and antisocial behaviour, mainly by youths, that we have now.
removing the victim of bullying is massively wrong (regardless of cost to the school mopping up bullys) as it sends all the wrong signals to the victim who will have thier education severely disrupted, confidence and esteem crushed even more as they will feel at blame for being bullied and feel they are being punished. Otherwise the schools are basically sending a message that the rights of a few bullys are greater than the rights of the victim!!
anonymouz
On the first point, martial arts teaches self-discipline, healthy living etc. If anything it will encourage less drinking and might help towards changing attitudes in this country towards drinking. Lots of sport (in whatever form), needs to be encouraged to the kids so they dont end up like us i.e. finding it appealing to be intoxicated at every oppurtunity. Obviously, it will take a lot more than that and I think many other factors contribute to this attitude, but it would be a step in the right direction.
Secondly, you have a point to an extent, but muggings wont stop/increase due to this. Also, there is nothing really to suggest that they WILL get worse, but obviously they could get more violent if Muggers feel that they need to use weapons because their victims are more able to defend themselves.
At the same time though, I think muggins which involve weapons usually are less violent than muggings that don't - might sound stupid on the face of it, but if your attacker threatens to use a weapon and shows you it - you are more likely to hand over your money/wallet etc. On the otheer hand, if your mugger isn't carrying a weapon, he will most likely attack you from the off to shake you up. Otherwise, lots of people would just put scary faces on and go round asking for people's wallets?
It is on these kinds of issues where the Americans are much better than us Brits/Europeans.
Secondly, you have a point to an extent, but muggings wont stop/increase due to this. Also, there is nothing really to suggest that they WILL get worse, but obviously they could get more violent if Muggers feel that they need to use weapons because their victims are more able to defend themselves.
At the same time though, I think muggins which involve weapons usually are less violent than muggings that don't - might sound stupid on the face of it, but if your attacker threatens to use a weapon and shows you it - you are more likely to hand over your money/wallet etc. On the otheer hand, if your mugger isn't carrying a weapon, he will most likely attack you from the off to shake you up. Otherwise, lots of people would just put scary faces on and go round asking for people's wallets?
It is on these kinds of issues where the Americans are much better than us Brits/Europeans.
You have no idea lol. Firstly, the average mugging, someone will just tell you to give you your stuff. Most people will, because they don't want a fight. When someone says no, thats when the violence/knifes come out.
Secondly, the murder rate in america is far higher than in the UK. As seen here: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
Do some research, america has far higher crime rates than the UK. Especially lots of murder manslaughter. As it is in america, one can do what one feels necessary to defend ones home. As shown by the samuri student a few months ago. More often than not, burglars carry guns, and if they see you, they'll shoot you before you shoot them.
People don't show their weapons, they use them. Because if they get arrested, the penalty is far higher and they're more likely to get a jail term.
Also your last point about always being worse off is rubbish. You are suggesting that everybody should just be passive and not defend ourselves or learn to defend ourselves. Its stupidity. We need to encourage self defense and less reliance on the police.
You just don't understand. To deter a mugger, you would have to significantly hurt him. E.g knocking him out, or breaking a limb. Do you want to do that. All it would lead to is an increase of manslaughter cases. Plus, I have a respect for my own life. How do I know it's not a junkie with aids, who might bite me in a fight and give it to me. How do I know the muggers not drunk and will beat me up for fun. How do I know he doesn't have a gun. Anyways, for most people, if they get mugged, they're pretty shaken up. You can box all you want, and learn to 'defend' yourself, but when a group of men come up to you and demand your wallet, it won't do you any good. In fact, you'd probably be rooted to the spot and hand over your stuff.
You can't teach self discipline. You can't teach healthy living. I don't mind if young people drink and smoke. Why would I - I look at they risks, and they are acceptable for me. Why would I grudge others what myself sees ' as a normal enjoyable thing to do. It's just part of growing up. What's wrong with drinking. It's fun, it's social, and I enjoy it. it happens. Get used to it. Most people will always want to drink - it's been that way forever.
mikejpb
those cats were fast as lightning
Fixed
Anyway, "In fact it was a little bit frightening,"
I think that it depends on the age group. Self defence should not be taught to children however, teaching it in secondary school seems quite sensible when people are in theory more mature
x0carrie0x
I think that it depends on the age group. Self defence should not be taught to children however, teaching it in secondary school seems quite sensible when people are in theory more mature
I teach karate to children from age 4 all the way up to adults. Secondary school-age children are generally the least likely to be sensible about what they've learned, in my experience.
SB_Vision
well.... I think it should to the vulnerable kids.... the kids however that will use it for bad should not be taught it but it is hard to distinguish between the 2
You'd be surprised at the "calming" effect martial arts can have on mean kids. MA isn't about fighting, it's about self-defence and discipline. Whilst the vulnerable kids are learning the confidence to defend themselves in bad situations, the absolute little bastards who turn up thinking they're going to beat everyone up are cooling down because of the discipline they are learning/have learned. It's visible in the lessons, and when their parents tell you how much theyve improved with behaviour towards other kids, at school, at home, you can see the effect that learning some form of discipline has on people.
Sorry if my post is a bit confusing, it's too early to write this much
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