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How can I stop paying for the NHS?
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Original post by WelshBluebird
If you feel so strongly agains them, then you wouldn't use them.
That's a ridiculous argument. I believe they can be run better privately, and I think it's wrong that I'm forced to pay for them - but that doesn't mean I shouldn't use them when I AM already forced to pay for them.
And I do not believe it applies for healthcare
Care to give any reasons whatsoever? Your point seemed to be more general before - I'm glad you've now accepted that cartels aren't stable, and that monopolistic market structures are maintained through regulation stopping entry.
Do you really really think that enough money could be gathered through one tax? Naive to say the least.
Not really, potential revenues from estimates of land value tax are at £413bn - which isn't far off the current tax take.
Yes it is akin to taxes. Some of your wages are being forcibly removed without you having a word in it. And again, you are very naive about the costs of healthcare if you think most people would have a large surplus. Very naive indeed.
...and yet, people do. The spend per person in Singapore is about 2x less, and they reach much better outcomes.
And again, as far as I am aware, in Singapore the government will pay for a large amount of your treatment if you cannot afford it. Guess where it gets that money from? Taxes.
Yes, and I've been through my support for a hybrid system. I also believe there's one justifiable tax, and that it has the potential to raise enough revenues to cover this easily.
But the US system is not supposed to be a hybrid system. It is supposed to be a private system. A private system where the government has to intervene to stop people suffering has failed. The UK is not an example of that because it is not a private system.
Medicare and Medicaid ARE parts of a hybrid system. Furthermore, huge streams of regulation and so forth means that it's nowhere near a private system - and stops the private part from functioning.
So do you fancy giving my family tens of thousands of pounds for the healthcare my Gran required? Or the millions needed to treat cancer patients every year? Thought not.
It's worth noting that your Gran would have a lot more left over if it wasn't for taxes.
Original post by jesusandtequila
It's worth noting that your Gran would have a lot more left over if it wasn't for taxes.
It's worth noting that your Gran would have a lot more left over if it wasn't for taxes.
With that kind of logic I feel sorry for the pro-AV campaign for having you as a supporter I must say.
Leave if your so unhappy, the NHS is a great thing, if we were under the american healthcare system I would frankly be bankrupt or dead, I would find it very hard to get insurance because of my medical history. I know someone who used to be a paramedic in America and they said some of their colleagues did leave people after an accident because they had no health insurance which is wrong. You should be made to pay taxes towards a healthcare system it's fair and everyone who works does it, your not even paying that much so don't be so ignorant.
Original post by Jordenfruitbat
Leave if your so unhappy, the NHS is a great thing, if we were under the american healthcare system I would frankly be bankrupt or dead, I would find it very hard to get insurance because of my medical history. I know someone who used to be a paramedic in America and they said some of their colleagues did leave people after an accident because they had no health insurance which is wrong. You should be made to pay taxes towards a healthcare system it's fair and everyone who works does it, your not even paying that much so don't be so ignorant.
Why is that my problem?
Original post by Mithra
With that kind of logic I feel sorry for the pro-AV campaign for having you as a supporter I must say.
Yes, the logic that if you don't consistently take 40% of someone's income over their life (pretty much across the board, when you include direct and indirect taxes), they'll have more to spend on services?
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by isaqyi
Why is that my problem?
It's nothing I can help either people don't choose to become ill most of the time it was just the way I was born
and because of this we all expect to be treated so yes you should pay for it, your only paying a small contribution aswell as everyone else. If you fell ill and you or your family didn't have enough money you would want to be treated too.You selfish piece of crap, why don't you go jump off a cliff.
Original post by DirtyPrettyThing
You selfish piece of crap, why don't you go jump off a cliff.
So, because people don't want their property forcibly taken from them they should jump off a cliff?
Original post by isaqyi
Original post by isaqyi
I am considering getting private health insurance, but no longer wish to contribute to the NHS as it is the worst healthcare system in Western Europe. I do not see it as my responsibility to pay for other peoples' healthcare, when I am more than willing to pay for my own.
Is there any way I can stop the British public stealing my money to pay for their healthcare?
Is there any way I can stop the British public stealing my money to pay for their healthcare?
I'm going to enjoy using your money for my benefit.
Original post by jesusandtequila
Yes, the logic that if you don't consistently take 40% of someone's income over their life (pretty much across the board, when you include direct and indirect taxes), they'll have more to spend on services?
Wait you meant if she hadn't paid tax at all? Well yes then she would have more to spend on 'services', however wouldn't be able to drive anywhere as there would be no roads, would be living in fear of criminals and thugs because there was no police force and a whole bunch of other problems.
Original post by Mithra
Wait you meant if she hadn't paid tax at all? Well yes then she would have more to spend on 'services', however wouldn't be able to drive anywhere as there would be no roads, would be living in fear of criminals and thugs because there was no police force and a whole bunch of other problems.
Roads would be charged on a per use basis - like trains and planes are, y'know - not that difficult to imagine.
Oh, and we could fund policing with a 2% tax on incomes, so fine - a minimal amount of tax with a minarchist state. Even then I'd use a land value tax which falls hugely on the richest (0.3% of the people own 69% of land by value in the UK) - so for the vast majority they would be paying next to no tax.
Original post by otester
No taxes just means the system would be more decentralized.
Home schooling and judiciary formed by the community to settle crimes/disputes are viable alternatives.
Also "to an extent" isn't good enough and "we live in a society" makes you sound like a collectivist.
Set up a fund and hope people donate, otherwise no, stealing money from others is wrong even if you get the government to do it for you.
Home schooling and judiciary formed by the community to settle crimes/disputes are viable alternatives.
Also "to an extent" isn't good enough and "we live in a society" makes you sound like a collectivist.
Set up a fund and hope people donate, otherwise no, stealing money from others is wrong even if you get the government to do it for you.
Jesus wept
If you are so against living in a society (too collectivist), you are wellcome to go elsewhere and set up your own commune. I'm sure most people don't see your alternative as viable
Original post by gozatron
I'm going to enjoy using your money for my benefit.
That's socialism for you. No wonder Americans are so worried for their future, thinking they'll turn out like Europe.
Original post by jesusandtequila
Roads would be charged on a per use basis - like trains and planes are, y'know - not that difficult to imagine.
Oh, and we could fund policing with a 2% tax on incomes, so fine - a minimal amount of tax with a minarchist state. Even then I'd use a land value tax which falls hugely on the richest (0.3% of the people own 69% of land by value in the UK) - so for the vast majority they would be paying next to no tax.
Oh, and we could fund policing with a 2% tax on incomes, so fine - a minimal amount of tax with a minarchist state. Even then I'd use a land value tax which falls hugely on the richest (0.3% of the people own 69% of land by value in the UK) - so for the vast majority they would be paying next to no tax.
I've never understood this claim that a land tax would be a good thing. Farmers own large amounts of land but that doesn't mean they also earn large amounts of money, its a stunningly unfair way to tax people. And why should richer people be taxed so much more? (I think the income tax increasing at certain levels is a horrific thing enough in itself.)
Original post by isaqyi
Why is that my problem?
Because one day you might need NHS yourself, you idiot. Diseases Ans accident don't discriminate according to class and income
Do you drive a car? I don't. Then why should I pay taxes for the upkeep of the roads?
Trust me, you will regret not paying for it once you fall ill
The NHS provides cheap healthcare to all citizens of this country, and especially help those who would not be able to avoid the treatment otherwise. It's the less fortunate we have to care about in order to become an advanced society.
The biggest leap in Human Evolution was that we became very social creatures and started to live in highly interconnected groups of people, now called society. In this system, the strong would help the weak, allowing the weak to achieve more of their potential in another field, so we have a more rounded group of individuals who are hopefully more responsive to change. This means we are less likely to become extinct by a major change in the environment.
That is why we have social healthcare, it should be in our very essence of being that we help people, especially those more vulnerable. If you don't want to contribute to this, as a strong person, then you can leave our society. If you think the NHS is not spending efficiently, then you continue to be part of our society, continue to fund our NHS and other public services, but discuss this issue, and what can be done to improve it, rather than opting out.
The biggest leap in Human Evolution was that we became very social creatures and started to live in highly interconnected groups of people, now called society. In this system, the strong would help the weak, allowing the weak to achieve more of their potential in another field, so we have a more rounded group of individuals who are hopefully more responsive to change. This means we are less likely to become extinct by a major change in the environment.
That is why we have social healthcare, it should be in our very essence of being that we help people, especially those more vulnerable. If you don't want to contribute to this, as a strong person, then you can leave our society. If you think the NHS is not spending efficiently, then you continue to be part of our society, continue to fund our NHS and other public services, but discuss this issue, and what can be done to improve it, rather than opting out.
Original post by TulipFields
Because one day you might need NHS yourself, you idiot. Diseases Ans accident don't discriminate according to class and income
Do you drive a car? I don't. Then why should I pay taxes for the upkeep of the roads?
Do you drive a car? I don't. Then why should I pay taxes for the upkeep of the roads?
Because you still use the roads every day, regardless of whether you're driving a car.
I have said it time and time again on this thread, I want to get private insurance and stop paying into the NHS, so no, I won't need it myself.
Original post by jesusandtequila
...and yet, people do. The spend per person in Singapore is about 2x less, and they reach much better outcomes.
Singapore has a much younger population, thus the spend needed is less.
It's worth noting that your Gran would have a lot more left over if it wasn't for taxes.
Singapore has a much younger population, thus the spend needed is less.
It's worth noting that your Gran would have a lot more left over if it wasn't for taxes.
And yet it would still be no where near enough.
What about people who haven't paid tax? One of my friends was diagnosed with leukaemia at age 18. Her treatment so far would have cost an awful lot more than what she or her parents could afford.
Original post by isaqyi
Because you still use the roads every day, regardless of whether you're driving a car.
I have said it time and time again on this thread, I want to get private insurance and stop paying into the NHS, so no, I won't need it myself.
I have said it time and time again on this thread, I want to get private insurance and stop paying into the NHS, so no, I won't need it myself.
So you know what would happen in future? That you would never lose a job or need an emergency treatment (or would a private ambulance fetch you?)
And people offered you a solution- go to America. I don't see why NHS (which is used by majority) should be scrapped so that people like you would have their £1 back in taxes
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