Oxford University invests in cluster bombs that kill innocent people!

Financial sense over morals? You'd make an excellent banker.

They are not responsible for companies they invest in, obviously, but to choose to fund a company with such a reputation is a bad move, since it is to knowingly fund such undesirable technologies.

Yeah yeah whatever. You might be pleased that I wrote to an individual at Oxford University Endowment Management Ltd about this investment ages ago (this is old news - it was reported ages ago) and the morality of one of the world's best universities investing in human butcher devices. Happy?

Lockheed Martin also work in renewable energy, healthcare, IT and Space. What is to say the money isn't being used to fund that? It is stupid to say they are condoning cluster bombs just because they invest in a company that manufactures them. It is not even like the company drops it themselves, the bombs are contracted by US army. If they didn't make them, then someone else would. It is the army that makes everything possible.

Arms manufacturers commonly invest in areas such as the environment, and other pleasant areas in order to distract attention from their more undesirable projects.

Clearly, you have been taken in by this.

If you invest in a company that manufacturers a certain weapon, then you are implicitly acknowledging that your money may go to that area of development. Ergo, you have taken a moral position where you consider that not to be an obstacle to investment. Which is tantamount to not caring about cluster bombs and the mass civilian casualties that result from them.

The army does not create munitions, companies do. This should be obvious to you because we are talking about Lockheed Martin whom, unless you consider them in a rather abstract way, are not an army.

I find your statement that 'it is the army that makes everything possible' extremely terrifying.

Then why put money in any American company, knowing that the taxes it pays will be used for the army?

But you can stretch that to: you know every American company pays taxes, you know the American government spends taxes on the army. Therefore you know that your money can be spent on these weapons.

If Lockheed didn't make them, someone else would! It's not like by not investing a few hundred k you are changing this.

Ah, but directly funding an arms manufacture is a rather different matter. It is extremely direct.

This seems to be a defence of Lockheed Martin. I am not sure there's much logic in simply saying that somebody else would do it. Is that the limit of your morals?

Oxford University was one of those Universities who last year were vocally supporting the massive student tuition increase that was shoved through by the current Conservative government. Crying "poor", Oxford stressed the money was needed to strengthen Oxford's position in the top 10 countries of the world.

Fight this investment university students, it is not all it seems. Don't let your money help a company make deadly weapons.

Some students have said they will be fighting this investment and I urge you to join them if you are present. Also to add, when the UK is going through one of the worst economic climates, why is one of it's most venerable educational bodies investing in an American company? Did "invest in the UK" not spring to mind!

Peace.

SOURCE

I see the demand for these weapons as immoral, not their production. I guess that is the fundamental divide between our opinions Morality is always individual like this!

Errmm. I really don't understand your argument.

Its research. Universities support research. Universities perform research.

You might disagree with what is being researched - Yet you wish to live in a safe country.

Would you invest in Iran's Nuclear Program?

And I don't know what your on about, safe country?

Research is undertaken on weapon programmes to ensure that UK defense systems are up to date. Hence keeping the country safe.

Why Iran's? English one, if I had the money? Probably not, but there are many other military research fields I would invest in - Fields I currently work in.

Would you say the same if a university invested in a cigarette company? An alcohol company? Perhaps McDonalds?

What you mean of course is, Oxford have invested in a multi-billion dollar company that has one small section producing cluster bombs, with other, far more active, profitable and productive sections producing planes, ground vehicles and other technology.

Why do you people always miss out the context.

It is a persons choice to smoke, drink and eat. Dropping illegal bombs on innocent people on the other hand.

Yes they also have more advanced and cleaner ways to kill people.

But look how cool Lockheed Martin F-35 lightning's look!

Do you believe America just drops cluster bombs on civilians on purpose? Or perhaps, for fun?

Oh no. Arms companies exist. These companies that give us the ability to totally overpower and stop killings in general, that allow us the overwhelming force to stop conflicts before they escalate, these weapons that allow us to advance to a stage in warfare where we don;t send wave after wave of man to their death. What terrible, terrible people they are