The Student Room Group

Firming Oxford or UCL for chemistry?

I’m really stuck between the above two universities!
There is massive pros and cons for each which i’ll discuss below and then if anyone can provide an opinion, especially current/ past students at either university on the course it would be massively appreciated.
Oxford: i’ve got an offer for Somerville, which i really love it is the college i applied for. The contact hours are INSANE which is one off putting thing, and i honeslty don’t know much about the department itself, as the open days & offer holder days haven’t really been focused on this, or when they have it hasnt seemed very strong. I’m also concerned about social life, as many are with Oxford, because i am not from a rich upper class background (rather the opposite) and I am very social and want the grotty uni experience!! One pro of oxford is the money, obviously it’s already much cheaper than london, AND they offer more bursaries than ucl on top of this. I also don’t like the lack of options in the course.
Now for UCL: i LOVEEE london and have got a really good sense when i’ve visisted the department on open days and offer holder days; it comes across as being really strong. i also really like the course content it has a lot of modules i’m really interested in. however i have heard a lot of negative reviews on UCL but i don’t know how accurate these are, and obvously london is RIDICULOUSLY expensive and i will rack up a lot of debt!

another side note is i really love dance the scene in london for the type of dance i do is very very good. there’s not really anything in oxford.
also if i end up going to UCL, i will aim to do a PHD etc at oxford
that’s about it i think! opinions will be valued:wink:
Congratulations on your offers. I studied history in Oxford and law in London. I live in London.

You can have the grotty uni experience at Oxford. Oxford undergraduates party like it's 1189. There are loads of pubs and bars, lots of extra curricular activities, parties, balls, punting, silliness, and seriousness. The work hard, play hard thing is a real thing. You can do a lot of studying and a lot of partying in an eight week term. Expect to be sleeping a lot in the week after you get home from your first term.

London is a short and cheap coach ride away on the Oxford Tube - which runs 24/7 and has wifi, aircon, and seats you can sleep in. You can go clubbing in London and be back at Somerville for breakfast.

Oxford courses may have fewer optional components than courses elsewhere, but you study the core components in real depth. You may find that within the core components you can cover ground that would appear as an optional component elsewhere. The Oxford tutorial experience is fabulous. The chance to engage in regular intellectual single combat with world class scholars in your field is not to be missed.

The libraries are wonderful, the buildings are wonderful, most of the other students you meet will be clever and fun. "Saltburn" is rubbish. Oxford is not dominated by braying poshoes.

Walking home at night from a party, you can just look up at the moonlit Radcliffe Camera and go ""Wow!". That never gets old.

Somerville is a fab college with a great history as one of the pioneering intellectual powerhouses of women's education, and it is still fab now that it is a mixed sex college.

UCL is great, but Oxford is, well, Oxford.
(edited 3 weeks ago)
Original post by 800dbcloud_
I’m really stuck between the above two universities!
There is massive pros and cons for each which i’ll discuss below and then if anyone can provide an opinion, especially current/ past students at either university on the course it would be massively appreciated.
Oxford: i’ve got an offer for Somerville, which i really love it is the college i applied for. The contact hours are INSANE which is one off putting thing, and i honeslty don’t know much about the department itself, as the open days & offer holder days haven’t really been focused on this, or when they have it hasnt seemed very strong. I’m also concerned about social life, as many are with Oxford, because i am not from a rich upper class background (rather the opposite) and I am very social and want the grotty uni experience!! One pro of oxford is the money, obviously it’s already much cheaper than london, AND they offer more bursaries than ucl on top of this. I also don’t like the lack of options in the course.
Now for UCL: i LOVEEE london and have got a really good sense when i’ve visisted the department on open days and offer holder days; it comes across as being really strong. i also really like the course content it has a lot of modules i’m really interested in. however i have heard a lot of negative reviews on UCL but i don’t know how accurate these are, and obvously london is RIDICULOUSLY expensive and i will rack up a lot of debt!
another side note is i really love dance the scene in london for the type of dance i do is very very good. there’s not really anything in oxford.
also if i end up going to UCL, i will aim to do a PHD etc at oxford
that’s about it i think! opinions will be valued:wink:

Oxford
Reply 3
Just remember that oxford is a very high stress environment. I am 2 terms into my second year, and everyone is stressed around me. I guess best way to imagine it is that you will be going into a job. It all depends on what is important to you :smile:
I am genuinely interested in the many comments I see here about stress at Oxford.

As far as I can tell from talking to Oxford tutors whom I have known since the 1980s and who are now Emeritus Fellows of their colleges, and talking to three of my nephews who recently studied at Oxford, the workloads now are the same as they were in the 1980s (when I studied Modern History at Oxford).

My friends back then (they are still my friends now) studied a variety of other subjects, including hard sciences, medicine, and law.

We did experience varying degrees of stress, particularly in our final years, but we were not constantly stressed out, and we had large amounts of leisure time, which we enjoyed in all the usual ways that students do.

My interest is not merely academic. My daughter starts at Oxford in October.

I do not wish to make any of the predictable comments made by late Boomers such as me about Generation Z and resilience, or lack thereof. I appreciate that everyone's subjective experience of stress is individual.

There were people at my college who burned out, dropped out, and so on, but most of us didn't. One very dear friend took his own life, and I mourn him to this day, but I believe that he had brought his demons with him to Oxford, and it was not Oxford that killed him (his tutor and the college Chaplain tried hard to save him).

Cases such as that of my late friend apart, we generally did not receive much in the way of pastoral care (this was a failing, I think). The Dons, and our parents back home, treated us as adults. Support took the form of "Pull yourself together", or "That was a good essay, Alpha minus query minus. Sherry?", or (from the college doctor) "Take some sleeping pills".

One thing that may have changed is that back then it took a Hell of a lot to get sent down for not working hard enough. People could bum around and do minimal work, although most people did work. Several of my friends could have got firsts but chose instead to carry on partying in the final year and get 2.1s*, and mostly they don't regret that, although one does.

t11t, if you have time and the inclination, (and I understand, of course, that you may not), could you please indicate how the stress tends to manifest itself amongst your peers? By message, if you prefer, or not at all. Thanks!

OP, I'm sorry for the thread hijack, although the subject of stress may be relevant to your decision.

Maybe I should start a thread raising this question, although I can see that such a thread might degenerate into inter-generational sniping.




*Unofficial in those days: the second class was not formally divided, but your tutors would disclose if a second was upper or lower.
(edited 3 weeks ago)
Reply 5
Original post by Stiffy Byng
I am genuinely interested in the many comments I see here about stress at Oxford.
As far as I can tell from talking to Oxford tutors whom I have known since the 1980s and who are now Emeritus Fellows of their colleges, and talking to three of my nephews who recently studied at Oxford, the workloads now are the same as they were in the 1980s (when I studied Modern History at Oxford).
My friends back then (they are still my friends now) studied a variety of other subjects, including hard sciences, medicine, and law.
We did experience varying degrees of stress, particularly in our final years, but we were not constantly stressed out, and we had large amounts of leisure time, which we enjoyed in all the usual ways that students do.
My interest is not merely academic. My daughter starts at Oxford in October.
I do not wish to make any of the predictable comments made by late Boomers such as me about Generation Z and resilience, or lack thereof. I appreciate that everyone's subjective experience of stress is individual.
There were people at my college who burned out, dropped out, and so on, but most of us didn't. One very dear friend took his own life, and I mourn him to this day, but I believe that he had brought his demons with him to Oxford, and it was not Oxford that killed him (his tutor and the college Chaplain tried hard to save him).
Cases such as that of my late friend apart, we generally did not receive much in the way of pastoral care (this was a failing, I think). The Dons, and our parents back home, treated us as adults. Support took the form of "Pull yourself together", or "That was a good essay, Alpha minus query minus. Sherry?", or (from the college doctor) "Take some sleeping pills".
One thing that may have changed is that back then it took a Hell of a lot to get sent down for not working hard enough. People could bum around and do minimal work, although most people did work. Several of my friends could have got firsts but chose instead to carry on partying in the final year and get 2.1s*, and mostly they don't regret that, although one does.
t11t, if you have time and the inclination, (and I understand, of course, that you may not), could you please indicate how the stress tends to manifest itself amongst your peers? By message, if you prefer, or not at all. Thanks!
OP, I'm sorry for the thread hijack, although the subject of stress may be relevant to your decision.
Maybe I should start a thread raising this question, although I can see that such a thread might degenerate into inter-generational sniping.
*Unofficial in those days: the second class was not formally divided, but your tutors would disclose if a second was upper or lower.

I guess an easy way to measure workload is by asking how many essays and how long your essays were per week?
Reply 6
Oxford, didn't even need to read it lol
Original post by t11t
I guess an easy way to measure workload is by asking how many essays and how long your essays were per week?


I was at Wadham. I wrote one essay per week. I had weekly one to one tutorials with very demanding tutors who would not accept waffle. Any attempt at waffle was met with withering Donnish scorn. The essays had no word limits, and so were as long as you wished them to be. They were all handwritten, of course. Civilian laptops were not yet a thing. At the end of each tutorial, we would discuss the subject for next week, and the tutor would reel off a list of books and articles. He usually said that he hoped I might hit about two thirds of the list.

I went to no history lectures in three years. I went to some Shakespeare lectures at the English faculty for fun. I went to some optional seminars at New College in my second year. I went to an invitation-only seminar run by Keith Thomas at St John's in my final year, and my college cohort met for twice or thrice weekly revision seminars in the final Hilary Term.

I cannot check the length of my essays now. A few years after I left, my tutor Cliff Davies (RIP) asked for all of my essays for the college archive (in the Muniment room, he showed me collections of undergraduate work and letters to and from home, dating back to 1620), but I had lent my essays to a lazy finalist at Queen's the year after I left, and he had lost them.

My mates doing science were always off blowing things up in labs, making mutant zombie gorillas, and what not. They seemed to work hard.

When I went to London to do the GDL after Oxford (a law degree in a year), I found the workload absurdly light and unchallenging.
(edited 3 weeks ago)
Reply 8
Ah that makes sense the . Sometimes one essay, most often 2 and occasionally 3 essays a week now. Of course varies slightly depending on college. 2/3 mandatory seminars a week which require often a lot of preparation(asked to prepare a presentation or read 2/3 books and criticism) and 1 mandatory lecture a week.
That's pretty busy. Which subject are you studying? I recall that English and Modern Languages students at my college had three essays and three tutorials every fortnight.
(edited 3 weeks ago)
Grade distritbutions for BSc Chemistry at UCL:

2.1 is what you need for any decent grad scheme, including any 6 figure jobs like investment banking, big law, tech etc. Bare in mind most degrees have 80-90%+ getting 2.1's, so not getting one is a really bad look to employers, even if your university (like UCL chemistry) decides to be the odd one out giving 39% of students a 2.1 or first.

Oh also, from my friends at Oxford who interned at an investment bank with me, the Chemists there have the highest workload of any course. So bare that in mind.
Oxford Physics in the 1980s -

"Each week: 10h practicals, 7h lectures, 2h tutorials, 3-4h per weekday study, total about 40h. Rest of time drinking and playing sport. No screens in those days…"
Original post by Stiffy Byng
Oxford Physics in the 1980s -
"Each week: 10h practicals, 7h lectures, 2h tutorials, 3-4h per weekday study, total about 40h. Rest of time drinking and playing sport. No screens in those days…"

Oxford Maths in the 1980s: "About forty hours work a week, lots of social life and fun. The only screen was the TV in the JCR, and we only watched that when a big sports event was on".

The Maths student got a first, did a doctorate at an Ivy League, and now has a Chair in Maths at a leading RG university. The Physics student got a 2.1 and works in the space industry.

Oxford English in the 1980s: "A doddle. I only remember the social life, which was great. About one essay a week, and some Anglo Saxon classes in the first year. In year two, a huge telling off from Terry Eagleton for the whole English cohort because nobody was doing any work. "This place is not a holiday camp!" I worked harder in year three and got quite stressed out before finals. I found the law conversion course afterwards boring and difficult".

The English student got a first and became a successful TV lawyer.
UCL's arguably not even the best London university for Chemistry - Imperial arguably is. Although for research quality in Chemistry, UCL is just above Imperial which is just above KCL which is just above Oxford. (Bristol then Cambridge are currently best for research quality in Chemistry).
But in some cases it can be easier to get a higher average quality of research when you allow fewer people to do research anyway. 95% of staff as an average across all departments at Oxford are engaged in high quality research. At UCL, it's 72%. (at Imperial it's 80%, at Bristol 67%).

For general graduate prospects for Chemistry, Oxford is joint top with Imperial on 98%. (Bristol is in joint 29th position on 82% and UCL is in 41st position on 76%).

For Chemistry graduates who go on to do something related to their degree, Oxford's in joint 4th position on 86%, Bristol's in joint 24th position on 76%, Imperial's in joint 34th position on 72%, and UCL's in joint 41st position on 68%.

Finally, entry standards. These tend to be inflated by the general prestige of the university rather than just the quality of the department but we have discussed the above stats.

Source: www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk
(edited 2 weeks ago)

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